FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[Tnkr]

VSP = pay back Tuition Assistance? Anybody know? 13-130 seems to say no, but could be talking about RIF only. 14-08 doesn't mention it.

Hard to say. I agree that 13-130 says that TA will be considered complete if selected for separation. If they get far enough down the batch to your app and the only hang up is TA, I have a hard time believing they'd want to continue paying you thousands of dollars per month for the hundreds they paid for you masters. Then again, this is AFPC...

BTW, one thing to think about. Rumor is that as soon as you have a separation date approved, you are considered unemployed by most banks (loans, etc.) and insurance companies. May vary by state, but look into it if you're thinking of buying a house once you've been VSP approved/RIF'd.

[Karl Hungus]

You know, I think there is a much more sinister consequence to this entire debacle. It's the amazing lack of credibility that has been demonstrated by senior leaders in the Air Force. With so much flip-flopping, doublespeak, faith-breaking, retractions, and "corrections" that have gone on with this sort of thing, there is simply no fucking way I can ever take a GO at their word.

They're managers, and piss-poor ones at that. Very little of what they do involves actual leadership.

It's sad how toxic this organization has become.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Karl Hungus

[tunes]

so if you have no become VSP ineligible as a pilot, that means you aren't RIF eligible either.....

Edited February 7, 2014 by tunes

[pawnman]

so if you have no become VSP ineligible as a pilot, that means you aren't RIF eligible either.....

Despite what the overage matrix would have you believe. Until they figure out that we still need to cut people.

I'm guessing this is about to go A LOT like it did last time...deny a bunch of people, then RIF them (or others in their AFSC and year group) because "we didn't get enough volunteers".

[Skitzo]

A lot of this stuff could be fixed if they moved pilots, navs, abms, operators, blah blah blah everyone that hacks a mish into the "Line of the Air Force" and everyone else that "supports the mish" goes into the "Restricted Line" That way they can announce a RIF Board for the Restricted Line and get rid of the people they want to instead of actively misleading everyone.

[waveshaper]

Latest ESERB Info.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/02/07/air-force-convene-early-retirement-board-some-officers-june.html?comp=7000023317828&rank=1

[AnimalMother]

You know, I think there is a much more sinister consequence to this entire debacle. It's the amazing lack of credibility that has been demonstrated by senior leaders in the Air Force. With so much flip-flopping, doublespeak, faith-breaking, retractions, and "corrections" that have gone on with this sort of thing, there is simply no ######ing way I can ever take a GO at their word.

When AFPC or a GO addresses the force, my mind basically shuts off until they are done because I can't bring myself to believe a single word they say. They claim that people are their greatest asset, and then cut all their people. They RIF majors who should have been able to finish their 20. They say you're eligible to get out early and then deny you or make you magically ineligible. Then a GO says if you're ineligible for early out you can't get RIFed, and then will probably go back on his word on that one too.

They say you need an AAD or you'll get thrown out. Now they say you don't need one. Then they essentially make the UPT ADSC and the bonus a one-way contract without giving you a shred of life stability. The problem isn't that I might get force shaped or RIF'd or what have you. The problem is that everyone in a position of authority constantly ######ing lies to us regarding everything. Sorry, I can't put Service Before Self when the Service is actively trying to ###### me in the ass every chance it gets because I "didn't read the fine print". But I'm sure their solution to this is to come up with another bullshit creed, vision, vector, or mission statement (or whatever their shitty U of Phoenix MBA told them to do).

And every new generation of officers comes in and sees how the older gen got ######ed, and they grow up cynical from the start. Even I know this is a recipe for disaster. The sad thing is that the top officer who has absolute supreme control over the AF can't even fix it. It's like the entire service is so entrenched in a river of shit that nobody can ever hope to pull it out.

Yea man, that pretty much sums it up. The most salient point here being that, in general, the Air Force (and by definition the leadership that runs it) really doesn't give two shits about its people. Anyone remember good old jimmy slife telling us that we were all replaceable, every single one of us, and he didn't care how many people decided to separate? Seriously, you can't make this shit up. But then, why would we expect our organization to act any differently that the organization it is a part of?

Large bureaucratic organizations are a lot like wild animals. When push comes to shove, they are really only concerned with 2 things: survival and procreation; and they will gnaw off their own ing leg if it guarantees survival. Everyone here lives somewhere on that leg.

[TAMInated]

The problem is that everyone in a position of authority constantly fucking lies to us regarding everything.

They didn't lie, the truth just changed./sarcasm

[ThreeHoler]

From base MPF today: "AFPC is in the process of revising the Officer RIF PSDM as well."

[spaw2001]

I went through the 2011 AF VSP hunger games so trust me, very cynical about any of these programs. Yet, this is the first somewhat logical action the AF has initiated. They are steering MAF folks towards Palace Chase because as the psdm suggests there is a massive shortage in guard/reserve pilots so logically, why should the AF pay people to get out and completely waive ADSC when they can fulfill guard/reserve requirements? So, at the end of the day the AF in its twisted way, has provided a pathway to get out and some level of clarity. It is perhaps not what everyone wants to hear because it doesnt include getting paid to get out. This still doesnt really answer why they would place people on an eligibility matrix but thats AFPC for ya.

Edited February 7, 2014 by spaw2001

[MC5Wes]

They just did this to the Civilians at my base. The sent email to everyone asking for volunteers for VERA/VSIP. After a day of

flight-line guys showing up with filled out applications. They sent another email saying only Admin types can apply.

[Rusty Pipes]

I went through the 2011 AF VSP hunger games so trust me, very cynical about any of these programs. Yet, this is the first somewhat logical action the AF has initiated. They are steering MAF folks towards Palace Chase because as the psdm suggests there is a massive shortage in guard/reserve pilots so logically, why should the AF pay people to get out and completely waive ADSC when they can fulfill guard/reserve requirements? So, at the end of the day the AF in its twisted way, has provided a pathway to get out and some level of clarity. It is perhaps not what everyone wants to hear because it doesnt include getting paid to get out. This still doesnt really answer why they would place people on an eligibility matrix but thats AFPC for ya.

I agree with your cynicism, but disagree with your conclusion. If the Air Force wanted to direct pilots from Active Duty to the Reserves or Guard then that is what this program should have been. All this current program shows is that from the top down the Air Force management has no idea what the hell they are doing. I would bet a year’s pay that if the AF had announced this as a program for pilots to transfer from Active Duty to the Reserves or Guard with zero financial gain and nothing but a job as a traditional Reservist or Guardsman there would have been a line down the street and around the corner of volunteers. Instead the AF has gone out of its way to completely delete any sense of trust or loyalty between Big Blue and its already demoralized pilot force.

There are lots of good dudes out there sitting in Squadron Commander positions who are genuinely trying to get out the best info they have and give the best career advice they can to their people... this certainly isn't on their shoulders and I don't envy them one bit. However, Big Blue is putting themselves and these Commanders in a terrible position. Non-continued 157, 2011 VSP/RIF debacle, 2014 TERA/VSP/RIF absolute nightmare... how can any of these Squadron Commanders (even the great ones) look in the eyes of any one of their troops asking them to trust them on anything and expect even the brand new 2nd LT Co-Pilot who walked in the door yesterday to have the slightest bit of faith that what they are saying is true?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Rusty Pipes

[chim richalds]

Since VSP isn't mentioned anywhere in 13-65, is 14-08 referring to LADSC or Palace Chase waiverable ADSCs? I think we all assume that they are referring to LADSC because it affects more of us in a negative way, and all the pro-palace chase additions they put in. So far, only 1 guy has said a help center person said UPT is waivable for VSP?

[spaw2001]

Our personnel OIC here says to reference LADSC for waiverable VSP ADSCs. As always, it is anyones's guess though. 13-65 does clearly summarize that additional waivers will be considered for palace chase because the AF gets recoupment in the form of guard/reserve commitment. This is in the top of the palace chase section.

[panchbarnes]

Apparently at a certain AOC, officers were just notified yesterday that they are on the matrix... crazy.

Here are a couple of tips to getting answers from AFPC:

1. Tell the pepole answering the phone that you demand to speak to the military OIC in charge of the process. My experience is that they are just the middleman and the real work is done by the military folks in the back. I was able to an issue resolved this way after calling everyday for 2-3 weeks.

2. Try calling Randolph MPF, since they are on the same base as AFPC they *should* have the latest gouge.

3. Don't bother walking into AFPC and talk to someone in person. Those days are over. They just renovated the place last year to include bullet proof windows and etc due to all death threats they were getting. Even if you show up in person you'd still have to use the phone in the lobby and call someone.

Edited February 7, 2014 by PanchBarnes

[C-21.Pilot]

2. Try calling Randolph MPF, since they are on the same base as AFPC they *should* have the latest gouge.

Nice try. I'm at RND and this is the farthest thing from the truth. Trust me, it's not like they are in the same building.

[Herk Driver]

Of course not. Last post I saw by Chang, he was throwing spears at senior raters. Something like....a sr rater should know his people. True, but shouldn't A1, being led by a flag officer, be able to run a ( let's admit it should be a fairly uncomplicated) personnel program and get it right the first time?

No, Chang was spending too much time on here deflecting.

[HoHum]

13-65 and 14-08 now amended 7 Feb 14. Slight changes.

[BitteEinBit]

13-65 and 14-08 now amended 7 Feb 14. Slight changes.

PSDM 14-69 amendment 6 to change 9 will be released on Monday. It will fix everything.

For f*ck sake I can't even keep up with this clown show and all of its changes and amendments to the changes anymore. It is almost like the AF is trying to prove a point to congress that the sequestration is causing us to have to go through this mess, but I don't think congress, POTUS, SECDEF or anyone else is listening. The clown show is just a clown show for us to see. Really...this should be in the WTF thread....

You really have to wonder how the daily briefings (if there are any) to the GOs at AFPC are run...what do they talk about?! Are these PSDMs even coordinated!? Leadership?!? Where are you?!

Edited February 7, 2014 by BitteEinBit

[FLY6584]

PSDM 14-69 amendment 6 to change 9 will be released on Monday. It will fix everything.

For f*ck sake I can't even keep up with this clown show and all of its changes and amendments to the changes anymore. It is almost like the AF is trying to prove a point to congress that the sequestration is causing us to have to go through this mess, but I don't think congress, POTUS, SECDEF or anyone else is listening. The clown show is just a clown show for us to see. Really...this should be in the WTF thread....

You really have to wonder how the daily briefings (if there are any) to the GOs at AFPC are run...what do they talk about?! Are these PSDMs even coordinated!? Leadership?!? Where are you?!

Once all of this is finalized we all need to file IG Complaints against AFPC.

[Day Man]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but has someone made a timeline with all these bullshit "announcements" that no one knows anything about? Might come in handy in the near future...

Once all of this is finalized we all need to file IG Complaints against AFPC.

ahem...

[Lumbergh]

13-65 and 14-08 now amended 7 Feb 14. Slight changes.

It seems all they did was make 13Ns ineligible to apply for VSP and LADSC. Nothing new or useful for 11Ms. Still stuck in FY14 Force Management purgatory...

[ThreeHoler]

Members can go ahead and submit and we [AFPC] will hold the packages pending receiving expanded ADSC waiver authority. The message that needs to be reinforced to the officers thinking about applying is that we aren't approving based on first come-first served. We won't do our first batch of officer VSP processing for at least a couple of weeks. Hopefully during this interim period we'll get the expanded ADSC waiver authority and be able to then process the rated applications we are getting. We'll make sure our folks in the TFSC have the correct information when answering calls from the officers.

Standby to standby.

[FBomb]

Where's the quote from ThreeHoler?

[MooseDriver1]

Of note for the enhanced PC rules, member has to have a Reserve/Guard position already when applying. With normal PC rules, officers have 90 days to find a unit and position number after approval.

Also, 120 day waiting period for resubmission after disapproval is gone.

None of this verified by speaking to human being who has any power to make a decision, but by reading shitty PDSMs that constantly reroute you to another document instead of just listing the pertinent info, so acknowledge as only gouge at this point.