Stop Loss Cometh

[Champ Kind]

^ Wow.

[C-21.Pilot]

Good on you for getting the upper hand on the situation - anyone with half a brain would do the same thing

Along with your YGBSM part, I can see the other end of the spectrum on this: A prior E who doesn't qualify for the bonus (has more than 16 TAFMS at ADSC completion) will probably get a 365 instead of a bonus to persuade his/her decision to stay to retirement.............what does someone do in that situation? 1. Take the 365 (win for AF) or 2. Punch (yay, no retirement for you! Also win for AF) Probably part of GC's "we got this" BS...........Uggh

Which is MY exact situation...

16.5 years total time as of late July. Missed out on the bank by about 8 months. As soon as 20 is up, I'm out. Sure, I was pissed at first, but now am glad. Fly me three times a day, 7 days a week. No longer have aspirations to make Lt Col. The 2-3 years that I'd have to stay past 20 to pin on and retire as an O-5 aren't worth $25K a year when airline seniority comes a calling. If I didn't have the family to worry about, I would have punched yesterday and played my cards in the civilian sector. My retirement date is pretty much set and I'm pretty much set on not PCSing again.

Chuck - I couldn't agree more with your answer. You're a patch wearer and great things are in your future. The bonus shouldn't be geared for folks like you but I'm glad someone is making it work for them.

What Big Blue needs to realize that the target audience are folks who are punching with a vast amount of hours, experience, AAD, and leadership traits which will make them a valuable asset.

At my current base, 18 folks eligible, two takes from the 11M's and 1 take from the 11F's. This is water cooler talk at our last OG/CC call. I don't know the school select stats for all of them but I do know the 11F is a school select....bleeds blue.

Edited August 6, 2013 by C-21.Pilot

[tac airlifter]

Will be more than 15 by the time all is said & done; it may actually affect the new SQs ability to be operational on time.

[nsplayr]

Just curious, is there anyone here that is unconditionally leaving AD at the first available opportunity?

Dropped my papers about a week and a half ago; 15 months left on active duty.

Not out of bitterness or hatred of my job or leadership or even PCSing to a "bad" location...out of desire to do something different. I love my job and the guys in my unit and our mission, but I've done it and am ready for a new challenge. Staying in the same heavily deployed airframe for 8-9 years without any options isn't what I was looking for, and until we can get the 3rd unit stood up and we get "healthy" on manning, "You are 100% not releasable" to anything else. Straight from the CC.

And I don't blame him, it's true. There's a sh*t sandwich being handed down to the units from senior leadership and the SQ/CCs get to spoon it out to each of us in turn without any ability to do anything about it. You want to continue serving by going to TPS/U-2/B-2/white jet/ALO/6th SOS/green door/etc.? Too bad...staying put or punching out are your only two options at this point.

Very few have escaped the black hole of AFSOC while staying on active duty and good on them, they deserve it. Even the dudes who stayed AFSOC but went Do-328s or MC-Js about a year ago and accepted Cannon as inevitable look like geniuses now.

15 and counting U-28 guys in the past few weeks, over an assignment to Cannon.

My count's a little higher but yea, pretty rough so far.

Will be more than 15 by the time all is said & done; it may actually affect the new SQs ability to be operational on time.

Agreed...the house of cards is swaying in the breeze and because the move out West seems like it's too big to fail I'm not sure what the bailout plan is going to be...

//continue AFSOC derail//

Edited August 6, 2013 by nsplayr

[HU&W]

You want to continue serving by going to TPS/U-2/B-2/white jet/ALO/6th SOS/green door/etc.? Too bad...staying put or punching out are your only two options at this point.

Were those the options you were hoping for? I didn't know all those were open to nav's.

[Rusty Pipes]

...the world is your oyster, nsplayr

Editorial Intern, Politics, Huffington Post: https://www.huffingto...torial_127139BR

Call Center Interviewer, Gallup Polls: https://www.gallup.co...ll-Centers.aspx

Multimedia editor, MSNBC: https://sjobs.brassr...108&codes=AD007

Organizer, ACLU of S. California: https://www.aclu.org/...hern-california

That's some funny shit right there... i don't care who you are!

[Tonka]

The final count will probably be closer to 30-40.

Inconceivable...

BTW, are we ever going to announce a winner? I've been waiting 5 years:

https://www.flyingsqu.../page__st__1060

[nsplayr]

Were those the options you were hoping for? I didn't know all those were open to nav's.

White jets (i.e. P-cola instructor), ALO, 6th SOS and green door are all possible in theory for a 12S. In theory being the key part. In reality we're even more stuck than the 11Ss since they can at least go for RPAs or -328s or the extremely occasional -130.

Out is your only option and most everyone there knows it; the good commanders will tell you so.

Affirm. My squadron DO, who is my deployed CC right now, did my 7-day opt counseling and basically agreed that based on what I was looking to do and the future of our community, the best option would be for me to get out.

He also has good people skills, doesn't blow smoke up people's asses, and has a fair and frank assessment about some of the high-level decisions being made. So basically he is The Man...almost restores my faith in humanity WRT AFSOC leadership. I hope he continues to climb the ladder and is able to begin righting the ship.

...the world is your oyster, nsplayr

Looking forward to it.

I heard a few Einsteins who had more than two years of remaining ADSC (including once with 4 years), are in that group. Way to make a statement and burn your bridge, you are still going to Cannon.

Parts of what you say are definitely true...the range issues we have with Eglin do not exist at Cannon and the WX should be better for the type of training our community needs too. I'll believe the rosy housing forecasts when I see them, because right now the rent people are asking there is out of control based both on the BAH people receive and also the true value of the property in Clovis, NM. Free markets don't work so well when there's a central planning mechanism that's feeding a large number of people into an area all at the same time. Here's to hoping that privatized housing helps ease the burden but I'm not holding my breath nor does it help the 69 U-28 families moving out there in the next 3-4 months.

Regarding your above statement, how did they 7-day opt again? Or are you talking about people just running their mouths about their intentions of getting out ASAP. If it's the later, sorry, I know plenty of dudes who don't mind showing their cards because they have no chance at winning the hand either way, it's either all-in and accept the beatings until morale improves or fold when able. When the house has a straight-flush on your career and you have a pair of deuces, showing your cards doesn't really matter so much.

Still not my preferred technique but to each his own when it comes to how you "manage your career" I guess. In theory I agree it's dumb for young pilots especially to express the desire to get out when they have IVO 6-7 years remaining on their commitment, but then again, the fact that they are speaking out tells you something about the state of the community doesn't it?

Edited August 6, 2013 by nsplayr

[PolyestherDuck]

Pilot shortage in fighter cockpits? We all know how Big Blue will fix this... They'll cut the number fighter cockpits to those they can fill and increase RPA slots to mitigate. Tell me I'm wrong.

[pawnman]

If someone has info on this that's better than RUMINT, I hope they're passing it to the appropriate authorities. I think watching a few guys with chickens or stars on their shoulders PCS to Leavenworth while incurring a 20 year ADSC would set a useful example to their peers.

Nah, they'd just be "forced" to retire.

[brewskis]

In my little Slice O' AETC, we've noticed that a lot of FAIPs coming up on their assignment selection (Assignment Night II - The hopefully not disappointing sequel!) getting deployments that extend their PCS date to their next assignment considerably.

The rumor is that they are delaying B-course dates for FAIPs keep their replacements from AD squadrons from PCS'ing early as a mean to (artificially?) inflate the fighter manning numbers.

Any one on the ACC side seeing the flip side of this, or is this just a case of the FAIP Mafia rumors going horribly wrong?

[Smokin]

ACC and PACAF have gotten early PCS orders for guys not originally on the VML (moving them at 2 years TOS), but the ones I know about have been to other ops assignments, so moving them early doesn't decrease the overall number. If anything, it moves a 1st assignment guy out opening up the spot for a new B-course grad which would actually increase the manning in the medium term. But in the long run, when those guys hit their stay/punch decision point, 6-9 PCSes in 12 years, plus pointless deployments that see zero combat, will likely weigh heavily on their decision.

[C-21.Pilot]

Whatever your reasons are for getting out or staying in, nobody cares.

Not me.

Not your neighbor.

Not the AF.

The only thing to say is that when you are in, bust your ass, help your bro's, do the mission. Complain in the bar as nothing is gonna change. Once you realize that the AF will go on without you, you'll be a better man....

[General Chang]

Whatever your reasons are for getting out or staying in, nobody cares.

Not me.

Not your neighbor.

Not the AF.

The only thing to say is that when you are in, bust your ass, help your bro's, do the mission. Complain in the bar as nothing is gonna change. Once you realize that the AF will go on without you, you'll be a better man....

The Air Force does care. Have you seen the money we're throwing at fighter pilots this year? Incredible opportunity!

[Vetter]

The Air Force does care. Have you seen the money we're throwing at fighter pilots this year? Incredible opportunity!

Haha!

Edited August 23, 2013 by Vetter

[Bergman]

The Air Force does care. Have you seen the money we're throwing at fighter pilots this year? Incredible opportunity!

An incredible opportunity if you love money above all else.

I've been generally opposed to the verbal beating you have taken on here, but even I can't stand it any more. Are you really that out of touch? The Air Force doesn't give two shits about their people! The current crop of O-5/6 clowns running the show at the squadron/group/wing would sell their troops to gypsies if they thought it would help their career. I can't remember the last time I've even HEARD about a commander "doing the right thing" or looking out for their people. What squadrons have you been in? What deployed locations? I've been around a time or two and I'm just not seeing this "leadership" and "insight" you keep talking about.

Edit to add: The irony, given sequestration and a very austere budget environment, is that the solution to retention is FREE. People WANT to follow good leaders. You wouldn't have to pay them extra to do it. But since we are running low on talent, let's just throw some money at the problem for a quick, easy fix. Kinda like putting wet napkins in the cargo door to stop an air leak...it'll work for a while but not a good long term fix.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Bergman

[Ram]

...or is this just a case of the FAIP Mafia rumors going horribly wrong?

Unless it has to do with TP stalls or instrument flying, FAIPs have no idea what they're talking about and should not be trusted.

(FAIPs: Don't be a SNAP and stroke-out with a sensitivity aneurysm. I was once you. It gets better.)

[sqwatch]

An incredible opportunity if you love money above all else.

I get the impression you think it's wrong to accept a bonus unless everyone gets a bonus.

Are you really that out of touch?

Rhetorical

The Air Force doesn't give two shits about their people! The current crop of O-5/6 clowns running the show at the squadron/group/wing would sell their troops to gypsies if they thought it would help their career.

More of the same whining drivel without substantiating facts or at a minimum, a personal perspective.

I can't remember the last time I've even HEARD about a commander "doing the right thing" or looking out for their people.

you must be extremely unlucky to have had nothing but sh1tty commanders. I've had a mix of both, but even the lousy ones looked out for their folks.

What squadrons have you been in? What deployed locations? I've been around a time or two and I'm just not seeing this "leadership" and "insight" you keep talking about.

Look harder

Edit to add: The irony, given sequestration and a very austere budget environment, is that the solution to retention is FREE. People WANT to follow good leaders. You wouldn't have to pay them extra to do it. But since we are running low on talent, let's just throw some money at the problem for a quick, easy fix. Kinda like putting wet napkins in the cargo door to stop an air leak...it'll work for a while but not a good long term fix.

And to think the solution to the problem AFPC has been looking for all along is right here in the preceding paragraph.

Love or hate GC, I suggest you read some of his original posts before he started bagging on pilots- you may learn something if you can separate yourself from your emotions.

[C-21.Pilot]

GC gave sqwatch a reach around during their 3 hour lunch break....

The Air Force does care. Have you seen the money we're throwing at fighter pilots this year? Incredible opportunity!

Really? Opportunity? You are far from the deployed lines, far from in the trenches, far from anything deemed "AF". Smoke and mirrors money in return for shitty assignments and poor QOL is only going to those folks who would stay in any way....

I honestly appreciate your inside information -- but, the "incredible opportunity" that MOST guys want is far from what the AF is giving in way of a "bonus".

[pawnman]

The Air Force does care. Have you seen the money we're throwing at fighter pilots this year? Incredible opportunity!

You might ask yourself, if the Air Force cared so much, why do they have to throw so much money at people to keep them?

One may wonder how an organization can possibly suck the fun out of what 99.9% of Americans believe is the coolest job one anyone can have. Maybe these guys know the answer to that question.

[pbar]

? One may wonder how an organization can possibly suck the fun out of what 99.9% of Americans believe is the coolest job one anyone can have. .

This.

[Fuzz]

You might ask yourself, if the Air Force cared so much, why do they have to throw so much money at people to keep them?

One may wonder how an organization can possibly suck the fun out of what 99.9% of Americans believe is the coolest job one anyone can have. Maybe these guys know the answer to that question.

Careful now, too much common sense will give the puzzle palace guys an aneurism.

[xaarman]

One may wonder how an organization can possibly suck the fun out of what 99.9% of Americans believe is the coolest job one anyone can have.

This!

[TAMInated]

Did GC and Liquid mate and name their bastard sqwatch?

[matmacwc]

Possibly, but I have defended them a little bit. If they are who they say, helps to listen. Flame on.