Stop Loss Cometh

[sky_king]

Unless it has to do with TP stalls or instrument flying, FAIPs have no idea what they're talking about and should not be trusted.

[matmacwc]

Ram is correct.

[Bergman]

I get the impression you think it's wrong to accept a bonus unless everyone gets a bonus.

I have no idea how you got that impression from my post. That isn't what I think at all. In my experience, very few people are in the USAF strictly for the money. Sure, no one would do it for free but financial compensation is not the driving factor. Throwing money at that type of person is ridiculous. As has been said before, the only people who will take the bonus are people who would have stayed anyway.

Rhetorical

Indeed. "A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question that is asked in order to make a point.The question is used as a rhetorical device, posed for the sake of encouraging its listener to consider a message or viewpoint...A rhetorical question does not usually require an immediate answer, but is meant to draw attention to and start a meaningful discussion on the matter."

More of the same whining drivel without substantiating facts or at a minimum, a personal perspective.

You're right, it is my personal perspective. I could go on a lengthy diatribe, citing dozens of examples of cronyism, people being sold out/used by their commanders, using bad assignments as tools to threaten people, and the list goes on and on. No one wants to hear yet another rant, which is why I stated my opinion which has been formed from watching this behavior over several years.

you must be extremely unlucky to have had nothing but sh1tty commanders. I've had a mix of both, but even the lousy ones looked out for their folks.

I actually wasn't referring to my own career; I've had a pretty good run. I'm basing this comment much more on the AD people I run across year in and year out. Watching from a somewhat detached point of view, listening to their stories, and some of my own experience serving under these guys has led me to approach nearly every commander warily. Once in a while I am surprised, but not very often.

Look harder

I will. Like everyone else, I crave good leadership. I WANT to follow someone who has their shit together, looks out for their people, and gets the job done. The problem is those people apparently don't exist any more.

And to think the solution to the problem AFPC has been looking for all along is right here in the preceding paragraph.

You're damn right it is. The problem is that it's not an easy fix. We have been promoting the wrong people for years, if not decades. Rewarding the wrong traits and behavior. And now we are stuck with exactly what we deserve after years of eyewash OPRs, promoting ass kissers, and misprioritization of talents (i.e. valuing someones exec ability over flying ability, or ability to write OPRs over ability to inspire confidence/leadership among their crew, etc).

Like I said, not an easy fix to get some people in place who can actually lead from the front. So in lieu of that, let's throw more money at people and hope we can dupe them into sticking around despite the poor leadership, shitty assignments, and lack of loyalty from the USAF.

Love or hate GC, I suggest you read some of his original posts before he started bagging on pilots- you may learn something if you can separate yourself from your emotions.

I have read all of his posts. And your comment is exactly why I prefaced my original post with, "I've been generally opposed to the verbal beating you have taken on here," because I think he has some great points and good information. But clinging to the bonus as a truly effective leadership tool damages his credibility.

[ChiefSlapahoe]

I've said it before, Chang is right. Running the Air Force has become a math equation to be solved using numbers. The art of leadership via humanism is extinct. Leadership as a science rules the day. Subjective aspects are briefly given lip service in PME, but a person is promoted based on the ability to produce favorable numbers. That's why we have the group of leaders we have today. All of your bitches and complaints can be approximated and quantified as numerical values. General Chang can enter those values as cells in his Excel spreadsheet and solve the equation for the desired result. That's leadership. Sure, it may also create problems down the road, but those problems can also be solved.

I hate to say it but promotions anywhere in world, civilian included, is about producing results. How you produce those results is a sign of some form of leadership. It might be with an iron fist or a graceful charm but either way results are results. Make your boss look good and you'll look good. So while strats may be relatively new, the idea of producing results has been first and foremost since the dawn of time.

I've even seen an OG/CC who wanted to put a certain ADO (always applied for awards for himself and only cared about #1) in a DO position for a deployment but knew the dude was a dick. He wanted a CC there with him to "mentor" him on how to be a better dude. So eventually he will probably get promoted and put in a CC roll and continue the cycle of pain.

If I were king for a day, I would make it so that nobody could apply for their own award. They had to be nominated by a supervisor (Flt CC, Chief Pilot/Nav, Chief Tactics Officer, CC, DO, etc.) and the nominees were then selected based off their deeds. It would bring more leadership back to the lower structures and actually employ them to be officers. The SQ leaders would also have to have to strat their dudes, justify why on each one (since the AF will never get rid of strats), and then brief the dude who's OPR is due what their OPR looks like and why. This would actually mean they would have to *gasp* give inputs into their performance (and a chance to make any corrections that need to happen) instead of being surprised on an OPR. The science part would remain (and always will) but the human part would be considered. My 2 cents.

[brabus]

If I were king for a day, I would make it so that nobody could apply for their own award. They had to be nominated by a supervisor (Flt CC, Chief Pilot/Nav, Chief Tactics Officer, CC, DO, etc.) and the nominees were then selected based off their deeds. It would bring more leadership back to the lower structures and actually employ them to be officers. The SQ leaders would also have to have to strat their dudes, justify why on each one (since the AF will never get rid of strats), and then brief the dude who's OPR is due what their OPR looks like and why. This would actually mean they would have to *gasp* give inputs into their performance (and a chance to make any corrections that need to happen) instead of being surprised on an OPR. The science part would remain (and always will) but the human part would be considered. My 2 cents.

This does happen some places, thank god. It demonstrates what happens when good dudes/leaders decide to stick out the bullshit AD gauntlet, at least for a while. Unfortunately the small percentage of squadrons/groups running like this shows how the AF continues to fuck itself and promote assclowns while the large majority of real leaders understandably say fuck this and take their talent elsewhere. I guess the AF doesn't understand the whole stupid games, stupid prizes thing.

[brewskis]

Unless it has to do with TP stalls or instrument flying, FAIPs have no idea what they're talking about and should not be trusted.

(FAIPs: Don't be a SNAP and stroke-out with a sensitivity aneurysm. I was once you. It gets better.)

I think we should at least get a little credit for knowing which FBOs have the hottest chicks behind the desk and the nicest crew cars.

[Ram]

I think we should at least get a little credit for knowing which FBOs have the hottest chicks behind the desk and the nicest crew cars.

Oh, you mean instrument flying? Yeah. The first step of any DD-175 is "where the f*ck should we go?"

[Fuzz]

I think we should at least get a little credit for knowing which FBOs have the hottest chicks behind the desk and the nicest crew cars.

Dollar qdoba at Forbes!

[Skitzo]

I think Al sums it up nicely. And since this scene is set in a boys prep school I think it is a useful metaphor. The cancerous type of leadership that prevails all to often is developed at a young age. Edited August 25, 2013 by Skitzo

[Rusty Pipes]

This does happen some places, thank god. It demonstrates what happens when good dudes/leaders decide to stick out the bullshit AD gauntlet, at least for a while. Unfortunately the small percentage of squadrons/groups running like this shows how the AF continues to fuck itself and promote assclowns while the large majority of real leaders understandably say fuck this and take their talent elsewhere. I guess the AF doesn't understand the whole stupid games, stupid prizes thing.

I wonder how many of these box checking assclowns that are currently occupying what used to be Leadership positions would start having the "cannot compute" sparks exploding from their ears if someone actually sent forward a strat on an OPR that said "#1 Leader in my Squadron/Flight"? I'm guessing that would probably be a pretty bad strat to get these days though considering that is clearly not what they are looking for anymore!

Edited August 26, 2013 by Rusty Pipes

[10percenttruth]

I wonder how many of these box checking assclowns that are currently occupying what used to be Leadership positions would start having the "cannot compute" sparks exploding from their ears if someone actually sent forward a strat on an OPR that said "#1 Leader in my Squadron/Flight"? I'm guessing that would probably be a pretty bad strat to get these days though considering that is clearly not what they are looking for anymore!

"#1 Leader in your squadron?!? You're relieved of command, Col!"

"Also, welcome to wing staff!"

[matmacwc]

I think the bonus thread and this one are merging.

[SurelySerious]

United Recalls 600 Furloughed Pilots. Could be less hiring going on there, then, but apparently the retirements are making an impact.

[itsokimapilot]

United Recalls 600 Furloughed Pilots. Could be less hiring going on there, then, but apparently the retirements are making an impact.

My understanding is United is only expecting a 25% take.

[HiFlyer]

My understanding is United is only expecting a 25% take.

i have a family member who flys for United Express. He says virtually all these recalls are going to the old Continental side, where they are woefully short of crews. He says maybe 50% take, but 25% could be the case.

[Vetter]

There is no old continental side. It's one company now.

Also, there is no company named United Express.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Vetter

[HiFlyer]

There is no old continental side. It's one company now.

Also, there is no company named United Express.

Technically, you are correct, but the old Continental side and the old United side are still (administratively) not fully integrated at the aircrew level, so that's the way he refers to them; he's from the old Continental roots. Also, you are correct there is no United Express, There is a set of operators who are contracted by United to fly their "commuter" routes under that name, which he does. Never the less, his statements stand as reported.

[Hueypilot]

Actually United and Continental have a combined seniority list now, which is why the call went out to furloughed pilots. No one is being recalled to the "Continental side" because there is no "Continental side" as of this month. There is now only one combined United seniority list for everyone. Even those UAL guys who came back on the Continental list a year or two ago has recall rights to their original line number on the combined list.

[HiFlyer]

Actually United and Continental have a combined seniority list now, which is why the call went out to furloughed pilots. No one is being recalled to the "Continental side" because there is no "Continental side" as of this month. There is now only one combined United seniority list for everyone. Even those UAL guys who came back on the Continental list a year or two ago has recall rights to their original line number on the combined list.

I'm just the messenger here, but let me clarify what was stated. Most of the callbacks are likely to go towards manning lines associated with the old Continental side, not pre-existing United routes. It has nothing to do with seniority lists, its about where they will wind up flying. Take it for what its worth, I don't have a dog in this fight.

[Termy]

This is why you should go to airlinepilotforums.net if you want to read about the airlines.

[Hueypilot]

Seniority is all that matters, especially now that there is only one list. If a returning UAL pilot had enough seniority to hold a line on a UAL route at a former UAL base, then they can. There's no exception saying they can only fly from Continental bases.

Now that the combined list is out, I'd expect a lot of movement as UAL guys bid for former CAL bases and equipment and former CAL guys move to UAL bases. The only restrictions that would come in to play are the wide body fences.