"How to fix the Army: Sack all the generals"

[HeloDude]

P.S., you don't need to post your life story to argue a valid point.

Now when I went to IP school years ago, one of the many things the old graybeards taught me was 'to be an effective instructor, you have to establish credibility'. If you don't, people will question your techniques, abilities, philosophy, etc. You do this by holding the correct qualification (ie IP), by sharing with your students what you have done in the past, and most importantly, by knowing your shit and being able to effectively teach what you know. I definitely learned this early on when teaching/advising the Iraqis as a relatively young guy instructing Iraqi pilots who were much older, who had been flying much longer than I have, and in quite a few instances, had more hours than I did at the time. Fortunately, I was able to establish some credibility early on, humble myself around those guys, and soon enough was able to see some positive results. Hell, a quick 6.9 second google search shows that the Weapons School even states "Taking the mantra, "humble, approachable and credible"..."

Just because I am knowledgable about different airframes, can speak somewhat intelligibly about their ops, etc doesn't mean that I have credibility in that community. That being said, if I'm an aircrew member in that community (especially an instructor/evaluator), then I'll have some credibility in what I'm saying. Here at BO, a bunch of rated guys talk about rated ops--if it's a specific bomber issue, a Bone/Buff guy will have a lot more credibility than me. If it's an overall airmanship issue, then I think all seasoned rated guys here can adequately add to the discussion.

So right now, when you add your opinion on flying/ops matters, I give you low credibility and thus don't give much weight to your opinion...after all how do I know if it's informed or not? And before somebody mentions 'well, we can pretend to be whoever we want online'...people have been sniffed out before for posing.

Don't worry dude, it's cool--I'm sure there's plenty of other folks out there who would be interested in hearing your thoughts. But for me, there's a reason I'm not cool with a student in med tech assistant school diagnosing me with an illness.

[Fuzz]

For thousands of years tactical prowess (or frontline experience) was the only way for a soldier to progress through the ranks, to eventually work on the strategic level. This doesn't always have to be the case, in fact of all the Four and Five star generals that commanded our forces during WWII only Marshall, MacArthur, Nimitz and Spaatz ever saw frontline combat during WWI or the Phillipinnes. However, those are rare exceptions to the model. Julius Ceaser didn't expand the Roman Empire without first cutting his teeth in Gual, and George Washington didnt earn his reputation from giving lectures at Army War College.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Fuzz

[slackline]

For thousands of years tactical prowess (or frontline experience) was the only way for a soldier to progress through the ranks, to eventually work on the strategic level. This doesn't always have to be the case, in fact of all the Four and Five star generals that commanded our forces during WWII only Marshall, MacArthur, Nimitz and Spaatz ever saw frontline combat during WWI or the Phillipinnes. However, those are rare exceptions to the model. Julius Ceaser didn't expand the Roman Empire without first cutting his teeth in Gual, and George Washington didnt earn his reputation from giving lectures at Army War College.

Ohh, hold on. I agree in general, but George Washington is a horrible example as he was a horrible "battle" general. Great logistician, but absolutely horrible battle general who got lucky once or twice. Read his bio, or 1776, or any book worth its salt on that era. He absolutely earned his rep from books.

[matmacwc]

You still dodged the motherfucking question, I award you no points.

[Fuzz]

Ohh, hold on. I agree in general, but George Washington is a horrible example as he was a horrible "battle" general. Great logistician, but absolutely horrible battle general who got lucky once or twice. Read his bio, or 1776, or any book worth its salt on that era. He absolutely earned his rep from books.

Ok valid, it was 2am when I wrote that, and he was one of the first that came to mind. However, he did earn a lot of his reputation leading the VA militia during the French and Indian War, and in all reality the man still (with the help of the French) mananged to hold an army of farmers together and beat the most powerful country in the world, maybe not the best Tactician but that still counts for something in my book.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Fuzz

[tac airlifter]

Here's the thing, when it comes to flying/ops matters, I don't care whether you agree with me or trust me. I'm not arguing to convince you or change your mind, so how much credibilty is attached, means absolutely nothing. Either the argument is sound, or it isn't. If it's not, then bring on the spears and let's hash it out. The problem is that people here seem to go insane when they can't size you up, and can only address words on a screen.

You've got it all wrong bro. I'm busy. I come to BO to have interesting discussions with people whose opinions I value. You think its all anonymous internet posting, it isn't; these communities are small. I don't care what you fly or if you fly, but why waste my time talking with random people? You say it's all about the logical value of the points themselves; I recall being like that myself as a college student. But nowadays I'm uninterested in summoning the energy to debate unqualified opinions.

Your tautological approach to debate tires me. Nsplayr was also pleonastic, but at least he is personally credible and is down range now doing great shit as we speak. Until I hear more about you, I'm uninterested in discussing the numerous flaws in your rationale.

Edited August 22, 2013 by tac airlifter

[Ram]

Not really. You consistently prove that you have very limited knowledge (beyond perhaps a few ROTC or ASBC courses) of how the Air Force works from an operator level. You avoid the question every time it's asked, but yet you call out MWS's (like the Eagle and Raptor) while having no credibility.

So either post up what you fly or sit down and shut the fuck up while the adults talk.

This.

[slackline]

You still dodged the mother######ing question, I award you no points.

Me? What question?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Fuzz]

You sure do spend a lot of time, effort, and words trying to convince others how much you don't care. If you don't want to debate, then don't.

Deal! How do I hide people again?

[busdriver]

I'm pretty sure joe1234 takes perverse pleasure in riling everyone up by not telling his back ground.

[Buddy Spike]

I'm pretty sure joe1234 takes perverse pleasure in riling everyone up by not telling his back ground.

Or he's just a poser hiding behind a keyboard.

[busdriver]

Or he's just a poser hiding behind a keyboard.

Either way just ignore and he'll either go away or reveal his back ground eventually.

[Danger41]

So which MWS's are allowed to post? And do Non-flyers get an opinion?

Joe is annoying and but he also has a point. The E-dick measuring contest is ridiculous.

[matmacwc]

Wasn't for you slack, it was for joe1234

And I get what the rest of you are saying, why care about his AFSC?

He talks about tactics, or not needing a flight background to know them (if I read that correctly). Sounds good if we were the DOT, but the word Air is in our Force. Fuck.......and stop #### my posts, it makes me puke a little bit.

Edited August 23, 2013 by matmacwc

[albertschu]

I cannot imagine any Generals in the next 5 years that do not have multiple deployments. Maybe a couple years ago there were still some floating around, but not anymore.

These GOs appear to have a paucity of campaign ribbons...

(disclaimer: I did not cross check the photos w/ every campaign ribbon. There may be a few I didn't recognize.)

[ram02]

These GOs appear to have a paucity of campaign ribbons...

(disclaimer: I did not cross check the photos w/ every campaign ribbon. There may be a few I didn't recognize.)

And what exactly were all these space/missile/cyber/acquisition GOs supposed to do in the AOR?

Edit: I see multiple AFESRs with gold borders. They may not have made it to Afghanistan or Iraq, but at least they've deployed.

Edited August 23, 2013 by ram02

[Fuzz]

Edit: I see multiple AFESRs with gold borders. They may not have made it to Afghanistan or Iraq, but at least they've deployed.

Nope not a single one, saw a lot of Joint Meritorious Unit Awards with Gold Borders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Meritorious_Unit_Award

[HossHarris]

Some, all, or none

[Fuzz]

And what exactly were all these space/missile/cyber/acquisition GOs supposed to do in the AOR?

There were also a couple MX, a Security forces, and a CE officer in that group, none with the AFESR or the GWOT-E.

[Prosuper]

I saw a lot of joint staff and Presidential White House staff cookies on those GO's, btw who is the first one with those pretty brown eyes? Most 20+ year MSgt's who deployed their butt off would have a bigger ribbon racks than these guys.

[Champ Kind]

Well, the main problem here is that using ribbon racks to judge someone's entire service history is fucking retarded. Which is why we have senior leader bios.

Yep, and on that bio I check for AMs to verify credibility (that stands for "air medal" for you and the other shoes (GC) reading).

[Prosuper]

Well, the main problem here is that using ribbon racks to judge someone's entire service history is fucking retarded. Which is why we have senior leader bios.

You have a point.

[Gravedigger]

Standard baseops; bitch about too many people in theater that have no reason to be there, then bitch about people that have no reason to go to theater not going.

What do you want ICBM guys to do down range? There are plenty of space badges in theater, but from many services, and not more than need to be there. Why would we deploy to operate GPS, Milstar/AEHF, WGS/DSCS, ISR satellites, launch shit, etc.? We have patches, advisors, support teams, liaisons and space control units deployed. That makes up about 1% of Air Force and National space.

Everyone else is CONUS, where they belong, not getting in the way, and not wasting valuable money/resources.

[ram02]

Nope not a single one, saw a lot of Joint Meritorious Unit Awards with Gold Borders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Meritorious_Unit_Award

Ah, you are correct. Poor vis recce on my part.

[JarheadBoom]

btw who is the first one with those pretty brown eyes?

BGen. Gina Grosso, former (and first) ABW/CC at WRI.

[/thread derail]