Instrument Studying before UPT

[chem_teacher_flies85]

Baseops,

I'll be attending UPT in May. I'm a very inexperienced private pilot with just around 100 hours (I'm a teacher so I currently don't have the $ to fly regularly). I was wondering if anybody has any online/study guides/video recommendations for general instrument lessons? I've been told that military instrument flying is 'somewhat' different than civilian but I would just like to have a decent base of how it all works.

I've already used some of the helpful info about the T-6 info given on baseops.(Thank you for those that shared those items)

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

-Chem

[RASH]

Chem,

Relax and enjoy the next 9 months, because beginning in May you're going to be busting your butt for about 3 years to become fully qualified in whatever aircraft you end up in. The AF will teach you what you need to know, and IMHO you're honestly not going to gain much by studying ahead of time. If you're hardover on studying ahead of time, go to the AF Pubs website, search for AFMAN 11-217, and start reading...just remember most of what you read will not apply to anything you're going to do at UPT.

RASH (ORF)

[Bronco130]

Most of us went to UPT with 0 hours, not even knowing what an ILS was... you'll be fine

[GVasc]

I second what RASH said earlier. I'm in UPT currently and there is no need to study instruments before you get to it in UPT during pre-solo contact and on to instrument sims and flights. I would honestly try to do things other than flying/af related while you're still able to enjoy them (time with family, wife, gf, whatever, and fun activities that you cant do in UPT base towns...)

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Count me with the guys who say don't bother trying to get any advance studying done for UPT. You will not be expected to know anything walking in the door, and will be taught everything once you get there. A few weeks prior to starting class learn the boldface and ops limits for the T-6 and that's it. Don't even bother trying to do this too early because that stuff is ALL subject to change, and un-learning something is 10x harder than learning it in the first place

[HiFlyer]

In addition to the above comments, which I agree with, you also need to understand the much of the flying at any base is unique to that base, so applying basic instrument techniqes to the Laughlin airspace and its departures and approaches is not the same as the procedures at Vance or Columbus. Beyond understanding the basic functions of the various instruements, there's really not much to learn at this point.

[snafu]

I was a lot like you. I wanted to do everything I could when I wasn't in a formal training environment and to use my time wisely to prep. You could buy an IFR course for a few dollars online and watch DVDs. It may provide some graphics and things to think about when you hit the academics for instruments and navigation later on. You could also then get microsoft flight simulator and practice with that. Also, listening online to liveatc might be good to listen to for some flavor of instrument comms.

However, all of that will not necessarily help you an iota when it comes to actually performing in the sim, flying the aircraft, or answering Air Force exams. It may alleviate an hour or so of study time since you kind of know a little bit about approach plates, enroute charts, etc..

Solid advice above. I gave you a few things you could do. I agree though, spend the time with your family or go do something you enjoy instead. You will learn the things you need to learn within the course.

[PushItUp]

A buddy of mine always said "The rich get richer." Not to poo-poo you dudes who didn't have their PPL before going to UPT, but while they're getting ground ops down you have it nailed, when they're flying you're working on instruments, and while they're trying to grasp instruments you're perfecting them. Since you have the basics down of flying w/ 100 hours, stay ahead and reap the benefits.

[Recut]

Baseops,

I'll be attending UPT in May. I'm a very inexperienced private pilot with just around 100 hours (I'm a teacher so I currently don't have the $ to fly regularly). I was wondering if anybody has any online/study guides/video recommendations for general instrument lessons? I've been told that military instrument flying is 'somewhat' different than civilian but I would just like to have a decent base of how it all works.

I've already used some of the helpful info about the T-6 info given on baseops.(Thank you for those that shared those items)

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

-Chem

Love the pic you chose. Well done.

Yep, everyone's right. The AF will teach you what you need to know. I will say, however, that basic abilities go a long way. I flew the mighty tweet (it had very old school instruments)....and I learned a lot. The C-17 is glass (as most airframes are nowadays) but I feel comfortable flying old school, too (it does have standby steam gauges). I've noticed over the years the T-6 types rely on the automation/glass and don't understand the steam.

IMHO, if you're trying to be a good instrument pilot (good on you), I'd go fly some approaches in a 172 under the foggles. I mean this sincerely. Yeah, the panel won't apply directly to a T-6 or a C-17 or whatever, but the basic skills definitely do.

Edit: do approaches in a 172 that has steam gauges. Almost forgot that some current 172 panels make what you'll see in the AF look archaic.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Recut

[LookieRookie]

A buddy of mine always said "The rich get richer." Not to poo-poo you dudes who didn't have their PPL before going to UPT, but while they're getting ground ops down you have it nailed, when they're flying you're working on instruments, and while they're trying to grasp instruments you're perfecting them. Since you have the basics down of flying w/ 100 hours, stay ahead and reap the benefits.

Ya this doesn't happen

[frog]

I don't fly in the Air Force, but I use my private certificate to travel often and I have two cents to share with you. If you decide to pursue serious instrument work, choose your instructor wisely. There are fine stick and rudder instructors out there who simply don't understand the IFR system and procedures, any many of them have very little experience in IMC. If they aren't comfortable flying a STAR and approach into a busy GA reliever in benign IMC, keep looking. I suspect UPT is the wrong place to unlearn bad habits.

With that said, obviously basic attitude flying is important as well, but that really shouldn't need to be said.

[Lord Ratner]

A buddy of mine always said "The rich get richer." Not to poo-poo you dudes who didn't have their PPL before going to UPT, but while they're getting ground ops down you have it nailed, when they're flying you're working on instruments, and while they're trying to grasp instruments you're perfecting them. Since you have the basics down of flying w/ 100 hours, stay ahead and reap the benefits.

False. 100 hours in a Cessna may as well be 100 hours knitting. I had airline pilots with 3000+ hours (many of those were teaching PPL flights) walk in and knock their dollar ride out of the park. But the second I started yelling it was like Michael J Fox trying to play Jenga in the front cockpit. Likewise, they knew the ILS like the back of their hand, but when I (intentionally) blocked any radio call they started with "and uh," we'd be on the missed approach before they could check in with tower.

You're either good, or your not. If you're good, pilot training will be a breeze. Sure, you'll pretend like it's hard because you don't want to seem like a braggart, but the simple truth is the majority of the people at the top of the class aren't "working their ass off" compared to the people are aren't naturally talented at flying. If you're not good, you'll just have to spend every waking second of UPT building your skills until you are good. But you wont know until you start.

To the future UPT stud: Study nothing now. If you absolutely must, memorize the Bold Face and Ops Limits, but no more. AFTER you start academics, aside from learning what they teach, memorize these three things, cold.

1. All standard radio calls, where to say them, what information to include, and know what they mean. There aren't many in Contact, but nothing destroys your ability to keep the jet where you want it like fumble ######ing around with a two word radio call.

2. All checklists on the consolidated checklist, in order. If a two word radio call can put you 300 feet off altitude, imagine what looking around the cockpit for the next step in the HEFOEP check will do. Learn them all cold, use your poster to make sure you actually know where the switches all are, and when you finally have the opportunity, spend lots of time in the UTD (screenless simulator) going over the checklists, beginning to end. Take a friend and time each other on the cockpit check. 90 seconds in the sim is slow,

3. Departure procedures. There will be 4 or 5 for contact. Know them cold. Altitudes, courses (most are GPS now anyways), points. Know them cold. Did I mention you should know them cold?

If you know the above items perfectly on your first flight... you'll still ###### up royally. But 4 or 5 flights later your comrades will still be pulling their peckers out of their mouths to call Initial, and you'll have your shit in a sock, and will be able to focus on the real flying.

And for god's sake, don't listen to other UPT students.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Lord Ratner

[B*D*A]

The C-17 is glass (as most airframes are nowadays) but I feel comfortable flying old school, too (it does have standby steam gauges). I've noticed over the years the T-6 types rely on the automation/glass and don't understand the steam.

Quoted for hilarity.

[Fuzz]

False. 100 hours in a Cessna may as well be 100 hours knitting. I had airline pilots with 3000+ hours (many of those were teaching PPL flights) walk in and knock their dollar ride out of the park. But the second I started yelling it was like Michael J Fox trying to play Jenga in the front cockpit. Likewise, they knew the ILS like the back of their hand, but when I (intentionally) blocked any radio call they started with "and uh," we'd be on the missed approach before they could check in with tower.

You're either good, or your not. If you're good, pilot training will be a breeze. Sure, you'll pretend like it's hard because you don't want to seem like a braggart, but the simple truth is the majority of the people at the top of the class aren't "working their ass off" compared to the people are aren't naturally talented at flying. If you're not good, you'll just have to spend every waking second of UPT building your skills until you are good. But you wont know until you start.

To the future UPT stud: Study nothing now. If you absolutely must, memorize the Bold Face and Ops Limits, but no more. AFTER you start academics, aside from learning what they teach, memorize these three things, cold.

1. All standard radio calls, where to say them, what information to include, and know what they mean. There aren't many in Contact, but nothing destroys your ability to keep the jet where you want it like fumble ######ing around with a two word radio call.

2. All checklists on the consolidated checklist, in order. If a two word radio call can put you 300 feet off altitude, imagine what looking around the cockpit for the next step in the HEFOEP check will do. Learn them all cold, use your poster to make sure you actually know where the switches all are, and when you finally have the opportunity, spend lots of time in the UTD (screenless simulator) going over the checklists, beginning to end. Take a friend and time each other on the cockpit check. 90 seconds in the sim is slow,

3. Departure procedures. There will be 4 or 5 for contact. Know them cold. Altitudes, courses (most are GPS now anyways), points. Know them cold. Did I mention you should know them cold?

If you know the above items perfectly on your first flight... you'll still ###### up royally. But 4 or 5 flights later your comrades will still be pulling their peckers out of their mouths to call Initial, and you'll have your shit in a sock, and will be able to focus on the real flying.

And for god's sake, don't listen to other UPT students.

A-fricken-men (I almost got on my laptop so I could use the bowing down smiley.)

Also when he says learn the radios calls, for god sakes do it, and don't take fucking breath between each word. No one is wanting to hear your best impersonation of James Earl Jones as Darth Vader, I just want you to say what you need to and get off the radio so I can request my clearance to make my fucking low level entry time.

I've noticed over the years the T-6 types rely on the automation/glass and don't understand the steam.

We have steam gauges? Why do i need them when I have a HUD and that fancy noodle on my ND Map? (Sarcasm)

Edited September 14, 2013 by Fuzz

[Cap-10]

WTF is a HEFOEP check?

Cheers,

Cap-10

[brabus]

Not to poo-poo you dudes who didn't have their PPL before going to UPT, but while they're getting ground ops down you have it nailed, when they're flying you're working on instruments, and while they're trying to grasp instruments you're perfecting them

Of the three dudes in my class who had over 1000 hrs civilian time going into UPT, 2 of them BARELY made it through. They struggled hardcore. Civilian time does not = awesome performance in UPT by itself.

[RASH]

Of the three dudes in my class who had over 1000 hrs civilian time going into UPT, 2 of them BARELY made it through. They struggled hardcore. Civilian time does not = awesome performance in UPT by itself.

Checks...a classmate of mine had 2600 hrs, was a CFII and commuter pilot, and couldn't find his ass with both hands in the Tweet or -38. Hooked EVERY checkride in UPT at least once (one twice)...

[Azimuth]

You're either good, or your not.

Hopefully you flew the T-6 better than you fly the tanker.

[F16Deuce]

Don't sweat it dude. They'll teach you everything you need to know.

[Steve Holt!]

I'm with these dudes.

A month before you go to IFS, go to their website and print out bold face and ops limits to memorize on the shitter. When you get there they will explain what the words and numbers mean, but if you know them already it will make your life easier. They will fill in the rest.

A month before you start UPT, memorize the words and numbers for bold face and ops limits. If you want to be super push it up you can probably find a blue suiter sim guy who is willing to take a bit of time and explain to you and your buddies what the words and numbers mean, or you can wait till you start and they will explain it to you, and already knowing them will make your life easier.

Same story on my end of CFIIs and dudes with thousands of hours struggling through instruments and 0 hour guys who were able to get by alright. It comes down to natural ability and your willingness to put in however much time you need to supplement however much natural ability you have. Which for most dudes in UPT is a lot of time.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Steve Holt!

[Lord Ratner]

You're clearly witty and obviously God's gift to FAIPs. That said, this is completely the wrong attitude. I hated IPs like this and still do. There's no reason to be a d*ck and only one reason to yell. That is if your ICS is inop. Having had IEDs go off in my LZ, 7.62 come through the cabin and cockpit, and RPGs fly over my tail, it's the calm, cool, collected pilot who saves the aircraft and crew.

Despite what you may have been told, in UPT, you are not preparing studs for combat, you're preparing them to not kill themselves in the NAS and to be ready to learn in IQT. I'm not advocating lowering the standard. And by no means do I think students should be codled. But fear, sarcasm and ridicule are the tools of an inferior pilot and instructor who doesn't have the maturity to properly facilitate learning.

Got it, you were weak in UPT, and the injustices of the world have made you a crusader for the new generation of students with no hands. Good. UPT needs instructors like you too.

But don't assume that FAIPs just lack perspective. Experience with copilots in two MWS have only made me regret letting some of them slide when they should have gone to that third 89.

Every student is different. Some, perhaps like you, didn't respond to yelling. In fact the worse the student, the less you can yell (generally). But it may surprise you to learn the better students often need a sharp kick in the ass to do better than just good enough. Airline pilots (50%ish), some prior-e flightcrew, and the ones who just lucked into being shit-hot fall into this category. They don't tremble like a leaf in the wind when you hook them for a bullshit checklist step (yes, we know its a bullshit hook), they hit the books harder and refocus on improvement.

From your post, it seems like your only experience with UPT is from the perspective of a student, and even the nicest, they'll-fix-him-in-phase-3, E's-for-everyone Santa Claus will tell you a students perspective is worthless.

Hopefully you flew the T-6 better than you fly the tanker.

T6 I flew great, T-1 i was so-so, MC-12 was a piece of cake, and in the tanker I'm survivable at best, but striving for mediocre.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Lord Ratner

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Got it, you were weak in UPT, and the injustices of the world have made you a crusader for the new generation of students with no hands. Good. UPT needs instructors like you too.

But don't assume that FAIPs just lack perspective. Experience with copilots in two MWS have only made me regret letting some of them slide when they should have gone to that third 89.

Every student is different. Some, perhaps like you, didn't respond to yelling. In fact the worse the student, the less you can yell (generally). But it may surprise you to learn the better students often need a sharp kick in the ass to do better than just good enough. Airline pilots (50%ish), some prior-e flightcrew, and the ones who just lucked into being shit-hot fall into this category. They don't tremble like a leaf in the wind when you hook them for a bullshit checklist step (yes, we know its a bullshit hook), they hit the books harder and refocus on improvement.

From your post, it seems like your only experience with UPT is from the perspective of a student, and even the nicest, they'll-fix-him-in-phase-3, E's-for-everyone Santa Claus will tell you a students perspective is worthless.

T6 I flew great, T-1 i was so-so, MC-12 was a piece of cake, and in the tanker I'm survivable at best, but striving for mediocre.

There is so much wrong with your attitude as an instructor it's hard to find a starting point. Yelling at a student for no other reason than to try to knock them off the rails is self serving at best, and directly detrimental to their learning at worst. We spend a lot of time in phase 3 trying to un-fuck these kids' heads because they're so wound up from downright poor instruction in phase 2 that they are incapable of constructive learning.

Honestly, what does yelling at a student accomplish? This tactic seems to be invariably used by bitter FAIPs who have nothing to offer other than to try to pass on their own self-imposed misery of being FAIPed and try to make UPT as miserable as they can for students.

[Azimuth]

In the tanker I'm survivable at best, but striving for mediocre.

I've flown with you in the tanker. Survivable might be an overstatement.

[Lord Ratner]

I've flown with you in the tanker. Survivable might be an overstatement.

I mean, we did literally survive.

[Lord Ratner]

There is so much wrong with your attitude as an instructor it's hard to find a starting point. Yelling at a student for no other reason than to try to knock them off the rails is self serving at best, and directly detrimental to their learning at worst. We spend a lot of time in phase 3 trying to un-###### these kids' heads because they're so wound up from downright poor instruction in phase 2 that they are incapable of constructive learning.

Honestly, what does yelling at a student accomplish? This tactic seems to be invariably used by bitter FAIPs who have nothing to offer other than to try to pass on their own self-imposed misery of being FAIPed and try to make UPT as miserable as they can for students.

Bitter? I loved every second of that job. I'd go back without hesitation. Save your crap FAIP generalizations.

Why do you have such a hard time conceptualizing it? Or are you unable to see past the caricature of an angry FAIP you've built in your mind? Do you imagine it to be a non-stop parade of profanity? A 1.3 where I simply imitate a car alarm?

I yelled at the students who needed to be yelled at. Students like me, and others not like me. Others I simply took the aircraft and redemo'd the maneuver. I didn't do it because it was fun (even though it was), I did it because the ones I yelled at told me the same thing I told my "bitter FAIP" after phase two: Thanks for getting me to pull my head out of my ass and be better. Believe it or not, pilot training attracts some rather over-confident assertive personalities that occasionally need to be taken down a notch. C4103 was my first of several come-to-jesus moments. Or maybe you're right, and all students are the same and just need to be gently reminded of their downgrades. As I said before, UPT needs all types of IPs.

Un###### their heads? It's stand-up, not the trenches of WWI. Anyways, I'm done pissing all over this kid's thread. My advice stands. Learn those three things before the dollar ride, and you won't have to worry about your IP being concerned about your emotional growth opportunities. The horror.