Rated to Law School?

[DEVIL]

Has anyone heard of any programs that will send a rated guy to Law School on Uncle Sam's dime?

Cheers.

[DUNBAR]

Back in the day, when I was a young captain, they had something called FLEP--Funded Legal Education Program. I seem to remember it was extremely competitive, but it was a sweet deal; Uncle Sam pays your way through law school while you're drawing 1Lt pay. I don't know if anything like that still exists in these murky days of sequestration.

If you do have the lawyer fever, however, please make sure you're conferring with some folks currently in the profession. Back when I was kicking it around, I was surprised how many USAF lawyers did not recommend the profession. Additionally, if you have any civilian lawyer aspirations, my understanding is it ain't exactly a glamorous John Grisham novel out there.

[JS]

Great suggestions, DUNBAR. It's no secret that the law field is extremely overmanned with high unemployment, but there are also still good law jobs out there. A friend explained it to me this way: if you are in the 1/3 of the class (assuming a good law school), you can probably get one of the "good" jobs with a private firm making decent money. The other 2/3 go into public service for $40K/year, or are unemployed.

I think I went off on a 2-page rant a few months ago about how deceiving statistics can be, and how the must useless and misunderstood statistic is the "median salary" for fill in the blank grads - MBA, law, engineering, medical, etc.

The thing about lawyers is that their pay (if they are lucky enough to be employed) is extremely bimodal. In other words a good chunk are making big bucks, while the rest are either unemployed or making shit pay as an assistant prosecutor or something. We have two public lawyers in our ring of pretty close friends, and the security guard manager, nurse, accountant, financial advisor, engineer, military officer, and (gasp) teacher all make a lot more money then the two lawyers do.

As much as I hate graphs and bullshit statistics, I think this illustrates the problem pretty well:

https://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

Of course, this is "reported salaries," which is code for a huge under-reporting of lower salaries or some other hidden skew factors. But it still makes a fairly accurate point, I believe.

The way I look at it is law school is a big gamble as to whether or not your school is on "the list" of elite schools to secure one of the great jobs, and whether or not you honestly think you can out perform over 2/3 of your classmates. And even then, there is still no guarantee. But if your passion is the law, and money doesn't matter, then that is a moot point. But the high unemployment issue is not a moot point.

To answer your original question, talk to one of your JAGs. We had a personnel girl in our squadron have the military pay for her to go to law school and become a JAG. Seemed like a pretty good deal, and those deals are definitely out there if you dig.

[addict]

Lawyers are not in demand, USAF included. USAF only wants cheap-o lieutenants that they can abuse.

Also, rated to JAG only spells one thing: our favorite TV Naval-Aviator-turned-Catherine-Bell-Coworker-Show

[DEVIL]

Thanks for the insight dudes.

Cheers

[Mojo]

There are opportunities are Captains, including rated folks, to go to law school via either FLEP (Funded Legal Education Program) or ELP (Excess Leave Program). The AFI describing the programs and requirements is 51-101. The number of FLEP selects was 6 in 2013, 0 in 2012, and 1 in 2011. The number of ELP selects was 2 in 2013, 2012, and 2011. The program eligibility requirements further limit the opportunities for rated folks to cross-over.

　

FLEP pays you your active duty pay and pays for law school. For FLEP, you must be an O-3 with 2 to 6 years TAFMS before law school begins. If rated, you must have served 3 years from the date you completed training before law school begins. In general, that leaves only one chance to apply for FLEP. June 2009 Grad USAFA/ROTC; Jan 2011 Grad UPT; Jan 2014 Eligible for FLEP; Aug 2014 Law School Starts; June 2015 6 year TAFMSD so ineligible for Aug 2015 law school. In addition, your UPT ADSC does not continue running during law school, so the above example person would have an ADSC until Jan 2024. You also must request a permanent disqualification from aviation service, effective the first day of law school.

　

ELP allows you to stay on active duty, but you serve without pay, except during summer internships. Using the Post-911 GI Bill would buffer the pain in the wallet. For ELP, you must be an O-3 with 2 to 10 years TAFMS. Your functional must release you to ELP, which I know in some airframes is not going to happen.

[Slander]

Post 9/11 GI bill plus VA Yellow Ribbon program could cover all of law school expenses but you would have to be "not on active duty" to be legible for yellow ribbon. There's a list of participating schools on the VA's website. Most major ones are on there (including a few in the top 20 like Harvard and Stanford, if you're a smarty pants).

[abmwaldo]

Just had a friend graduate from Arizona State, as a FLEP student, and take the bar. He was a prior 13B, rated, and was one of the 4 or so folks picked up in 2010; he was picked up for ELP in 2009 but chose to apply again to get it funded. It's possible but like many things timing is everything.

His life did not suck when I visited him getting paid as a Captain in law school at ASU. In fact, it might be the best kept gig in the Air Force....

edited for spelling

Edited September 24, 2013 by abmwaldo

[Dupe]

As an 11X or 12X, best of luck getting released by your functional...

[Springer]

His life did not suck when I visited him getting paid as a Captain in law school at ASU. In fact, it might be the best kept gig in the Air Force....edited for spelling

F-4 WSO buddy did the same thing which led to a distinguished AF career. Ended up becoming an AF judge and was the chief investigating officer in the AWACS shoot down, Ron Brown's T-43 crash, and the Khobar Towers bombing.

[pawnman]

Lawyers are not in demand, USAF included. USAF only wants cheap-o lieutenants that they can abuse.

Also, rated to JAG only spells one thing: our favorite TV Naval-Aviator-turned-Catherine-Bell-Coworker-Show

Sign me up if I get to work with Catherine Bell.