Supervising GS Personnel

[PSYCH]

I need some help with supervision of a GS civilian. The background is that I am an Air Force O-4 at a Navy command. There is a civilian (GS-14) who has been in her position for about 8 years. It is known in the command that she is completely incompetent, but because she is a minority she is afforded specific privileges. Additionally, she has filed a EO complaint and has 'whisteblower' status which has made it significantly more difficult to give her honest feedback because it could be seen as retributional.

She currently works directly for an O-6 and has three employees (GS-10, E-6, E-5). There is some discussion about her PD (position description?) that dictates she is in a supervisory role.

The bottom line is that the CO is terrified of an EO complaint and is risk adverse when it comes to punishment. I'm trying to make a case to have her report directly to me so that I can begin the paper trail on her. My question is whether or not I can directly supervise a GS-14? Further, does it matter what her PD is? If so, what factors do I need to see in her PD that would make me ineligible?

If anyone has SA to this, experience with, or more importantly a source document I can reference, that would be optimal. I'll be more than happy to provide more info if required.

[moosepileit]

GS-14s let O-6s think they, the GS14 work for them, the transient O-6.

O-4 stands not a chance unless crimes are occuring.

GS-14s "always" supervise, I believe.

ymwv.

[ForgotPassword]

Yes, O-4 can supervise a GS-14. I do believe that the supervision must be inline with the PD, though. Meaning, if her PD has her as a flight commander, you would have to be in a position above that in order to supervisor her, like a DO. I would highly recommend consulting the civilian personnel office, they usually have a good handle on what is or isn't appropriate. For all you know, her current PD might say something totally different that what she is actually doing and her job may have morphed over time while her PD remained the same, in which case you may have the opportunity to put her in a closet. I have seen this happen multiple times. Civilian employee gets tired of being jerked around and starts telling people to ###### off because their duties have nothing to do with the actual PD. Additionally, just because she may be coded as a supervisor doesn't mean she has to supervise anyone.

Bottom line to your initial question, yes, O4 can supervise GS-14. Whether or not you can write on them will depend on the PD and you should get with the pers office for details on that. Sometimes a "supervisor" and their official rater are two different people.

Edited November 1, 2013 by ForgotPassword

[TarHeelPilot]

I hope you are not a white, male, heterosexual, Christian. If so, this will not end well for you.

[PSYCH]

I hope you are not a white, male, heterosexual, Christian. If so, this will not end well for you.

Im hosed

[budderbar]

I work primarily with civilians and have never in 13 years seen a GS 14 report to anyone under 05. Essentially a GS 14 in the DOD is equivalent to an 05 and a GS15 is equivalent to an 06.

A GS 14/15 can either be functional lead, deputy CC, deputy director, director or commander.

A GS 14 non supervisory ( usually field experts aka engineers, scientist etc...) usually report to 05 or higher.

A GS 12 /13 generally equivalent to Maj dependent on position (I.e. Team lead, Flt CC etc...)

Although I have never seen it that doesn't mean your 06 can't mandate it, mission need! Just be ready for her to file a compliant with the IG.

And if she isnt doing her job now just have the 06 put her on a performance improvement plan.

[NKAWTG]

It sucks, but more circumspect methods are easier to deal with in staff bureaucracy. You've probably marginalized her up to this point so she can do less harm, but if she has made herself the single point of failure for some process (something like all email accounts go through her) then you're stuck dealing with it. Moving a GS is generally easier than firing one. Removing the GS position is also an option on the table these days. What I've seen from those 20% staff reduction efforts, they are targeting positions, not people. Justify the position needs to be cut, and move on. I'm sure the forums could spin "fired incompetent GS" into a good OPR/EPR bullet

Are these suggestions chickenshit and not dealing with the real problem? Absolutely. But you only have so many hours in the day, and a real job to do. Pick the battle most wisely fought.

Just don't paint all the GS employees with the same brush. There are some good, hardworking Americans in these positions, and DoD has treated them like crap lately. Furloughs for all my friends! Six, eight or 11 days, we'll tell you the day before if we'll pay you for tomorrow. Just like the military, the ones capable of moving on to something better are doing it, and the marginal ones are remaining.

[MSCguy]

This kind of goes in this thread...I believe I am having a grievance filed on me by a GS-9 that I supervise. I gave written counseling that I feel she is deficient on certain parts of her PD (neglecting certain tasks) and set suspenses to address said deficiencies. Apparently getting suspensed to do your job is too much for some people and she had a meeting with the union rep today. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this? My CC told me he thinks the grievance is a joke and he supports me. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this?

[Tnkr]

BLUF: I have zero experience with this. Therefore, my advise is limited.

Step 1. Go see JAG.

And that's all I've got. Good luck, and let us know how it plays out pls.

[Dupe]

This kind of goes in this thread...I believe I am having a grievance filed on me by a GS-9 that I supervise. I gave written counseling that I feel she is deficient on certain parts of her PD (neglecting certain tasks) and set suspenses to address said deficiencies. Apparently getting suspensed to do your job is too much for some people and she had a meeting with the union rep today. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this? My CC told me he thinks the grievance is a joke and he supports me. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this?

You will be fine. However, you're going waste lots of hours dealing with the grievance. As long as you set standards IAW the PD and CBA, you'll be ok.

One evil tactic: give your GS a job that's impossible to be perfect without an insane amount of time sink. Equipment accounts are good for this.

[Chapter29]

This kind of goes in this thread...I believe I am having a grievance filed on me by a GS-9 that I supervise. I gave written counseling that I feel she is deficient on certain parts of her PD (neglecting certain tasks) and set suspenses to address said deficiencies. Apparently getting suspensed to do your job is too much for some people and she had a meeting with the union rep today. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this? My CC told me he thinks the grievance is a joke and he supports me. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this?

I'm assuming you're active duty and she is a straight civilian. This can get complicated in the world of technicians and reservist.

If she is a straight civilian and you are active duty, no you won't get in trouble. Emasculated maybe--trouble no.

[jnav]

Your civilian personnel folks should have some experience dealing with this, go talk to them. As long as you followed the AFI and didnt say anything rediculous itll be fine. And even if their complaint gets upheld there isnt likely to be any problem. Especially if your boss supports you.

And if the performance issue continues put them on a performance improvememt plan. If that doesnt work start the process to remove them. It is a paperwork intensive process and can be slow. But I have had to fire at least three GS employees I can remember and it can be done.

[Rusty Pipes]

I work primarily with civilians and have never in 13 years seen a GS 14 report to anyone under 05. Essentially a GS 14 in the DOD is equivalent to an 05 and a GS15 is equivalent to an 06.

A GS 14/15 can either be functional lead, deputy CC, deputy director, director or commander.

A GS 14 non supervisory ( usually field experts aka engineers, scientist etc...) usually report to 05 or higher.

A GS 12 /13 generally equivalent to Maj dependent on position (I.e. Team lead, Flt CC etc...)

I'm working in a mostly civilian DoD Organization and we have several cases where GS-14s work for O-4s... although I think that may be because most of those military billets are coded for an O-5 with 1up/down options. Individual Performance Plans and Position Descriptions should be reviewed at least annually (I know there are only certain windows where you can update them though... maybe only once or twice a year IIRC). If they don't meet the conditions set by their IPPs then you can hit them on their Civilian Appraisal. I feel your pain though... we have plenty of GS-13/14s running around here creating work to justify their jobs; of course many of them are even bad at accomplishing the work they created themselves!

[HerkFE]

This kind of goes in this thread...I believe I am having a grievance filed on me by a GS-9 that I supervise. I gave written counseling that I feel she is deficient on certain parts of her PD (neglecting certain tasks) and set suspenses to address said deficiencies. Apparently getting suspensed to do your job is too much for some people and she had a meeting with the union rep today. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this? My CC told me he thinks the grievance is a joke and he supports me. Is there any way in hell I'm going to get in any trouble over this?

In my ~17 years in the Federal Civil Service (9 as an Air Guard Technician, 8 with the FAA) I have never seen a grievance accomplish anything other than mild stress and paperwork for the "accused". Nothing gets changed and no one gets in trouble. The accuser gets to strut around her co-workers bragging that she "filed a grievance on his ass". You'll have to dig around in some regs and write a response and that will likely be the end of it.

[MSCguy]

Thanks for all the advice-apparently the union told her to shove off and nothing got filed after all. The does not meet appraisal is inevitable though-it seems like that's easier to do than actual written discipline. The crappy appraisals stay on file for a lot longer than written warnings.

[HeyWatchThis]

GS-14s let O-6s think they, the GS14 work for them, the transient O-6.

O-4 stands not a chance unless crimes are occuring.

GS-14s "always" supervise, I believe.

ymwv.

Wright-Patt has some non-supervisory 14's.....Research labs and all that I guess....

[FBomb]

Wright-Patt has some non-supervisory 14's.....Research labs and all that I guess....

The labs do not use the GS system, but rather something called "Lab Demo". The system allows AFRL to pay their specialized scientists and engineers like 14s/15s without the supervisory requirement. Even those in management use the Lab Demo system too. There are a scant few GS personnel here and there, but the lab is run by those in Lab Demo. While not perfect (or even easy), Lab Demo is lightyears ahead of the GS system in terms of holding personnel accountable and directly tying promotion, bonuses, etc to job performance.

[silverwolf0911]

You got it. Here's the link with more detailed information for those inclined:

https://www.wpafb.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet_print.asp?fsID=8080&page=1

Also, on the SPO side (now called AFLCMC), it's extremely top heavy in 14/15s... there are so many of these folks running around. So not *every* 14/15 supervises other folks. Most do, but I wouldn't say it's 100%.

On a side note, I saw a GS-13 at work clicking thru ACSC and asked him about it. Apparently, they are being told that to be "promotable" to GS-14, he needs ACSC done. And AWC for for GS-15... PME is bleeding over slowly but surely...

The labs do not use the GS system, but rather something called "Lab Demo". The system allows AFRL to pay their specialized scientists and engineers like 14s/15s without the supervisory requirement. Even those in management use the Lab Demo system too. There are a scant few GS personnel here and there, but the lab is run by those in Lab Demo. While not perfect (or even easy), Lab Demo is lightyears ahead of the GS system in terms of holding personnel accountable and directly tying promotion, bonuses, etc to job performance.