Study: Nuclear Force Feeling 'Burnout' from Work

[Colokent]

You are a total ass clown. Have some SA.

This is a forum of aviators, most--but not all--of whom are young. Of course you won't find in-depth understanding of strategic nuclear missile issues with them. So what? And that's really "tiresome" for you? Get a grip.

Will I find an in-depth understanding of SEAD, ISR, or airlift in the ranks of CGO missileers? Of course not. So what kind of troll rolls into an internet forum of aviators to blast them for that lack of in-depth understanding or for making "flippant, blow hard comments"? That's what the damn internet is for! Are you new?

And given the complete and total clown act that has been the nuclear community lately, I find it particularly curious that you would take that opportunity to go offensive on other communities that have not been in the news lately. You guys are clueless.

Danny....I got it-- commenting on sh%t you know nothing about is second nature for you. Check. SF-squared, Captain.

[M2]

Danny....I got it-- commenting on sh%t you know nothing about is second nature for you. Check. SF-squared, Captain.

Dude, here's some friendly free advice. Step back, take a breath, and take it down a notch. You're not winning the argument by being an asshole and lacking SA!

This ain't the Missile Forums...

[ElLoco]

Danny....I got it-- commenting on sh%t you know nothing about is second nature for you. Check. SF-squared, Captain.

Rage on old man, rage...why so butthurt?

[Chuck17]

For the record (and JQuintana), uninformed, flippant, blowhard comments by elitists whose perspective and experience appear to not extend beyond any missions other than their own, and who largely believe themselves "too good" to perform ICBM duty don't add anything to the conversation, either. It's a myopic view of national security policy in general, and the AF's role in it in particular.

Lesson over, young "studs". Go ahead and go back to your dart game and ripping each other's flightsuit patches off at the bar...

K

Holy shit, guy.

Uninformed, flippant, blowhard comments are what young aviators are all about. It's our (more senior guys) job to sort them out, and explain the WHY. You don't do that by popping off yourself.... Grow up.

Missile dudes in a hole in Wyoming aren't saving the world and single-handedly protecting Americas national security. That's the kinda hubris and believing your own press that got the community where it is right now. Scoffing the work should be expected from someone on the outside.... Kinda like you did at the end of your post there.

Personally, no matter your tribe, I think these guys are all too good to suffer under garbage leadership in a micro-managed unthinking enterprise. The missile community needs an cleanse more than any other, IMHO, and until you lost your fucking mind I actually agreed with a lot of what you were saying.

If you can keep your cool and remove your drawers for your b-hole, you could be useful here, teach a thing or two. Or, you could continue use the nuclear option most inappropriately...

Chuck

[albertschu]

Not False. You do need more land based ICBMs than the other guy. We would never launch a nuclear attack on another country until we were "struck" first, not launched on, struck. Therefore, since silo based ICBMs are a "one for one" swap; if the other country intends to destroy your nuclear capability, you need more than they have.

So if we would never launch until after we were struck, why do we need to train ICBM operators? Why can't we just leave the instruction manual in the capsule and tell them that if the tater tots every run out that they should read it?

[akele]

So if we would never launch until after we were struck, why do we need to train ICBM operators? Why can't we just leave the instruction manual in the capsule and tell them that if the tater tots every run out that they should read it?

Deterrence only works if it's credible. ;-)

[Cave_Pilot]

I have not seen my OG this grim, ever.

[Liquid]

I have not seen my OG this grim, ever.

Seriously, what would you do to fix it?

edit for booze

Edited January 29, 2014 by Liquid

[Cave_Pilot]

Withholding commentary, on the grounds that we've all been warned to avoid doing so in public.

[Champ Kind]

So why did you post in the first place?

[Butters]

So why did you post in the first place?

Hey guys, I just heard some stuff in an important meeting that directly impacts all of your futures. However, I am not allowed to tell you anything about it. Sorry.

[Bender]

...and until you lost your fucking mind I actually agreed with a lot of what you were saying.

Classic...well played, Chuck.

edit for booze

The trick is to do it fast, so no one notices! I speak from personal experience...

Bendy

[Breckey]

Fuck, is there anyone left?

Regardless, a doubling of the number implicated means that more than one-third of certified launch officers at Malmstrom - and approximately 14 percent of the entire Air Force cadre of nuclear missile launch control officers - has been removed at least temporarily from active missile duty. It was not clear Tuesday how that affects the mission, beyond requiring the remaining crew members to bear a bigger share of the work.

There are a bunch of non-CMR missileers getting rapidly spun up so they can go post. The ops-tempo for them is going to suck. Granted it's not the same as deploying, but spending 15+ days per month in a capsule smaller than a pop-up trailer with hamburgers and tater-tots will not do good things for the remaining officers morale.

[Pitt4401]

spending 15+ days per month in a capsule smaller than a pop-up trailer with hamburgers and tater-tots will not do good things for the remaining officers morale.

Not to mention the impact on the sacrosanct PT test

[Liquid]

SecAF words:

https://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2014/A-Systemic-Problem.aspx

Seven observations from her recent trip:

1. Too much stress and too much fear. Few rewards and severe punishments.

2. Need to separate training and testing. Need to learn from mistakes.

3. There must be accountability at leadership levels, not just cheaters.

4. Re-evaluate professional and leadership development. SECDEF will help.

5. We need to reinvigorate core values. Must report wrongdoing.

6. We need incentives, accolades and recognition for the nuke force. Including special nuke medals.

7. We need more money and manpower because the roofs leak.

[C-21.Pilot]

SecAF words:

https://www.airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2014/A-Systemic-Problem.aspx

Seven observations from her recent trip:

1. Too much stress and too much fear. Few rewards and severe punishments.

2. Need to separate training and testing. Need to learn from mistakes.

3. There must be accountability at leadership levels, not just cheaters.

4. Re-evaluate professional and leadership development. SECDEF will help.

5. We need to reinvigorate core values. Must report wrongdoing.

6. We need incentives, accolades and recognition for the nuke force. Including special nuke medals.

7. We need more money and manpower because the roofs leak.

Didn't they get flight suits; that wasn't enough? What's next, Bronze Stars.

Edited: I can't critically think after Mons Venus.

Edited January 30, 2014 by C-21.Pilot

[zach braff]

I'm curious as to how far back the investigators are digging... If this is a "trend" how long has it been going on? Sounds like it may not be that new of a phenomenon. Will they ask (under oath) the current Flt/CCs, DOs, & Sq/CCs if they ever cheated or were aware of it going on during their crew-dog days? And if they do what happens depending on what they find out?

zb

Edited January 30, 2014 by zach braff

[Fud]

Seriously, what would you do to fix it?

edit for booze

A few good points from the most recent AF Times article. Secretary James and Defense Secretary Hagel seem to get it. I've been out of that career for some time, but recently ran into an older capsule jockey who was about to retire. His words exactly "It sucked back then, and I'm sure it sucks worse now". Sadly, I agree with him, however, ICBM duty could be one of the best assignments in the AF.

A few highlights from the article:

"The Air Force doesn't incentivize good work by airmen, but instead has created a culture that places an emphasis on perfection and punishing anything less"

Agree wholeheartedly. I remember hearing about signs at all the bases that said perfection was the standard. You would constantly see the "shiny pennies" have field deviations swept under the rug, while other less fortunate people would be raked over the coals. You were also never taught the timing standards for evaluations, but were expected to perform flawlessly in an evaluation without them. These folks are set up for failure.

"Micromanagement needs to be replaced by a culture of empowerment"

Don't agree as there is not a lot of 'empowerment' a missile officer can have in the field. The checklist oriented nature of the job does not allow for much leeway, but this is a good thing. The micromanagement can be fixed by the purge I mention below.

"The missile forces need better funding..."

I'll believe it when I see it, but I don't think this will happen. I also don't think it is necessary to have PRP pay or anything like it. We were often compared to sub crews, but their job is much more dangerous and they are away from home far longer. If they get incentive pay, good for them, but the missile cops, MX, chefs, and FMs (all enlisted) should be paid more first. It is tough to expect young people to be motivated when they are in such remote locations. I don't have numbers, but am willing to bet DUIs are higher at the northern tier bases than at the lower ones.

"The forces have lost a distinction between training and testing."

Huge 2 on this one. There is no reason for monthly proficiency testing the way it currently is. In my end of tour brief with my CC, I mentioned the test bank concept and how it should be implemented. He said it would never happen. Each wing, at least when I was there, had different testing. It was especially difficult when you had an inspection come through where the tests were from different wings. There is literally no standardization across the testing shops and one failure means you're garbage. This type of testing should be scrapped. This should be step one. If completed, morale will nearly be fixed. The next part of the equation is fixing the management problem at these bases. As I stated before, the "rot" mentioned in this career field starts at the top. There is a severe lack of quality leadership at the top of the 13N career field, and there needs to be a purge similar to that accomplished at the end of WWII. This will send a message to the young officers in a positive way.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Fud

[zach braff]

92 officers suspended. Other bases are pitching in officers to help out.

https://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-strategy/196978-air-force-suspends-92-nuclear-missile-officers-in-cheating

[Guest]

I can't find the transcript (may not have been published yet), but here's the AF Public Affairs' (re: propaganda) article.

https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473219/air-force-officials-address-systemic-problems-in-icbm-force.aspx

The number of those implicated in the Malmstrom scandal has risen to 92, James said.

Although a passing grade on these tests is 90 percent, the missileers are still driven to score 100 percent, all of the time, she said. This is because their commanders are using these test scores to be a top differentiator, if not the sole differentiator on who gets promoted.

[...]

I believe that a very terrible irony in this whole situation is that these missileers didn't cheat to pass, they cheated because they felt driven to get 100 percent, getting 90 percent or 95 percent was considered a failure in their eyes, she continued.

https://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473221/secaf-outlines-top-focus-areas-to-improve-icbm-career-field.aspx

James described her recent visits as insightful, coming away with seven key focus areas she and other senior leaders will assess over the next two months. [...] Focus areas include: [systemic problems, training vs. testing, accountability, career field development, core value campaign, career field incentives, and investments.]

[ForgotPassword]

A symptom of dumping washouts into the force? "Quality Spread" coming soon?

[17D_guy]

"The forces have lost a distinction between training and testing."

Huge 2 on this one. Words...

Additional huge 2 on this. I can't believe that they've tied this so close for so long. You can't have training where you're not allowed to fail, ask questions, etc. That's just constant recertification.. over and over and over. Gotcha questions, no standardization, your career depending on 5% of a grade. Integrity? Mother F*cker, please. Plus the blatant favoritism that we all know takes place for that guy...

Had guys I commissioned with that grumbled about the sorts of things that are going on up there right now.

I'm glad the SecAF has these 7 items and it seems like she didn't just get to talk to the 'shinny pennies'. Any news on when the writer of that lovely editorial espousing the value of tater tots is getting RIF'd? Or is she just going to slot into replacement.

[zach braff]

I had a ROTC instructor my first year that was a missileer. He told me how great it was and that I should consider it - but I just thought, "if it's such a great job why did you become a ROTC instructor to escape it."

BREAK

I think they should send Lt Col Tatertots to Malmstrom to fix the problem - she's clearly the expert.

zb

[Breckey]

God no. A new OG/CC would help tremendously.

[SurelySerious]

92/183... Strong.