Selling leave

[Scooter14]

Actually, officers can sell back leave. You can only sell back 60 days of leave in a career. This becomes a player when transitioning to the ANG/AFRC. When you do a month MPA tour, you accumulate 2.5 days of leave, which will automatically get sold back at the end of the tour. If you sold back all 60 days at the end of Active Duty, you're SOL, so they say.

I sold back 30 days at the end of AD and took the rest as terminal leave before joining the ANG.

Nowhere else are you going to get this much paid vacation time this quick. And if you start UPT in November, let's say, and you get 2 weeks off in December for Xmas break, they'll let you "go in the hole" or carry a negative leave balance to go see family because they know you won't be taking much more leave till the end and you'll go back in the black.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

The governing regulation is AFI 36-3003.

Paragraph 4.5 (page 9) states "Title 37 U.S.C, section 501, is the authority for payment of accrued leave upon reenlistment, separation, retirement, or death. It limits payment of accrued leave to 60 days in a military career effective 10 Feb 1976. A military career includes former enlisted and *officer* status...."

Thanks for the correction

[Bergman]

Good news on the selling back of leave for us ANG folks. If you are on contingency orders (ONE, OEF, OIF, etc) any leave you sell back DOES NOT count against your 60 days career total. Also, if you are on orders for less than 365 days you can sell back without pentaly (just learned that from our finance guys last week - aparently that is a recent change to the reg).

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

Are there any stipulations for selling back leave prior to retirement? Someone asked me, and I don't know the answer.

[Eeyore]

C-21,

I know that officers are allowed one time sell back of leave at retirement. Enlisted I believe could still sell back leave as they reenlist. Unless rules for enlisted has changed. Hope this helps.

EE

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I thought all they pay you is base pay when you sell leave. That's not as good a deal.

I only wish I was getting 1/2 my total pay as retirement. As it is, using 50% of base pay means I get less than 1/3 (annually) of what I was making before I retired.

I would take the leave and get all the money.

[DigDug]

But, if you sell back your leave you loose the BAH and BAS..

Robes

True, but you'll be working on active duty for those days you were going to use for terminal - getting full everything PLUS the money for the leave.

Example:

You are going to retire on 1 May and have 30 days of acrued leave.

Option 1 - Stop working on 1 April and you get paid leave (terminal) 1 Apr - 30 Apr = 30 days of full pay (Base Pay + BAH + Flight Pay).

Option 2 - Keep working through 1 May then sell back the 30 days = 30 days of full pay (Base Pay + BAH + Flight Pay) while you're working PLUS 1 months Base Pay only for the leave you're selling back.

NOW I do agree that if you've got a civilian job lined up starting 1 Apr, and it pays more than your current Mil Pay and entitlements, you're better taking terminal so you can start working sooner. (Or if your unit is going to be deployed for that time frame, or if you really hate your current commander and 30 more days of facing them would drive you crazy - or, or, or)

Some will propose Option 3 - extend your retirement date by 1 month and work through 1 May and then go on terminal leave for 30 days (putting you on active duty another month). As I think about it quickly, this is probably the best option for those that can change their retirement/seperation date (wouldn't work too well for those force shaping victims with a mandatory seperation date).

I guess it's all depentant on the individual's situation...

[M2]

Due to circumstances I ended up selling about a month's worth of leave when I retired. I was lucky in that the organization I was working for pretty much cut me loose to do whatever I wanted those last few weeks so I didn't have to burn any leave. Yes, I only got my base pay and after taxes were taken out, but it was a nice little chunk of change.

And a major rule has changed since I retired, that being that officers on terminal leave cannot work in any government spaces during that time. I was able to "double-dip" for a few weeks, as I started on my contract before my retirement date; but a later re-look changed the ROE:

There has been a major change in interpretation issued by the DoD and AF General Counsel Offices regarding post-government employment while on terminal leave. Please see below:

Working for a Contractor while on Terminal Leave.

Military officers who plan on working during terminal leave are (like all Federal employees) prohibited by 18 USC 203 and 18 USC 205 ( from representing their new employer to the Government.

In the past, "representing their new employer" was a term open to legal interpretation based on the facts of each case. However, in February 2006, the DoD General Counsel's Standards of Conduct Office issued guidance that the above listed-criminal statutes preclude a member from interacting or appearing in the Federal workplace as a contractor. They determined that being present in Government offices on behalf of a contractor is inherently a representation.

The Air Force General Counsel has concurred and issued the same guidance.

Bottom Line Rule - Effective immediately, while on terminal leave, an officer may not work for a contractor in a Federal workplace.

Options:

* Officers on terminal leave may begin work with the contractor, but only at a location away from the Government workplace, such as the contractor's facility;

* Officers may move up their retirement date and sell back their leave; or

* Officers may wait to begin working for the contractor until after their terminal leave ends.

If you currently have an officer on terminal leave working for a contractor in your section, immediately contact our office for further guidance.

Enlisted members are not subject to 18 USC 203 or 18 USC 205 and therefore the above guidance does not apply to them.

If you have any questions, please contact me at 703-614-8941.

V/R

Barbara J. Christman, DAF

Chief, Contract Management Branch

Directorate of Executive Support

Air, Space, and Information

Operations, Plans, and Requirements

barbara.christman@pentagon.af.mil

(703) 614-8941

fax(703) 697-6499

Just to note this all came out about mid-June 2006...

Cheers! M2

[JarheadBoom]

What's the compensation for selling back leave?

Base pay only for the number of days you sell back; taxed heavily.

I just sold back 37 days when I got off my long-term AD orders at the end of April - I haven't seen a dime yet, and don't expect to until sometime next month.

[NHbound]

This is a question I am hoping someone in the know like Finance Guy can answer.

I recently switched from MPA to AGR orders. I opted to sell back the leave I accumulated on the MPA tour, about 58 days. I initiated the sellback in October, and deployed at the end of that month. Oct, Nov, and Dec are tax free for me this year.

So the question is, is the leave sellback tax exempt as well? If so, it would be a huge chunk of change, leave sellbacks are taxed at 25%.

Thanks!

~NH

[sledy]

This is a question I am hoping someone in the know like Finance Guy can answer.

I recently switched from MPA to AGR orders. I opted to sell back the leave I accumulated on the MPA tour, about 58 days. I initiated the sellback in October, and deployed at the end of that month. Oct, Nov, and Dec are tax free for me this year.

So the question is, is the leave sellback tax exempt as well? If so, it would be a huge chunk of change, leave sellbacks are taxed at 25%.

Thanks!

~NH

I ended up doing the same thing and it was all taxed. It doesn't matter where you are when you recieve the check, it matters where you are when you are earning the leave. If you are in a tax free environment and you earn leave that you subsequently sell back once you get home (non-tax free environment), you still get that leave at a tax free rate because you earned it in a tax free environment. Opposite is true for your situation. There is one exception to that, PM and I'll let you know.

If you find something else out, let me know, because I got screwed out of 55 days of tax free leave sell back. I'm pretty sure it's as stated above though.

Sledy

[ucf_motorcycle]

I have heard conflicting information and wanted to get some info before I go ask finance their opinion. Basically I heard an officer can sell leave one time in their career, but I have also heard that you can only sell it if you are separating or retiring.

If it is possible to sell leave, could I sell it while on a deployment and avoid the taxes? I will have about 100 days accrued by the next fiscal year so it seems like a good option for me.

[Day Man]

dude...just take the leave. they don't pay you the equivalent of your wage, so you're losing money.

[SocialD]

they don't pay you the equivalent of your wage, so you're losing money.

Not true. If you take leave, sure you get all your normal pay (which you would be getting anyway), you just don't have to show to work. But if he's satisfied with his time off and he sells leave, he will make more $$$ (at base pay only) ON TOP of his normal pay. Strictly speaking in $$$, it's a net gain. I won't even get into the value of time off here. I should caveat this with, I use all of my leave as I enjoy the time off.

Last I knew, you could sell back a max of 60 days in a career (unless you're Guard/Reserve). Swing by finance and they will explain it all to you. You should be able to sell it anytime you want.

Edited December 1, 2013 by SocialD

[Day Man]

Valid. I was trying to imply this:

I won't even get into the value of time off here.

[Gravedigger]

If you don't take your leave, you will kill yourself. Trust me, CBTs don't lie.

[WeatherManC130]

I will have about 100 days accrued by the next fiscal year so it seems like a good option for me.

Bro, CGOC will be there after you burn 3 weeks of leave. Enjoy your time off.

WxMan

[Marlboro BLACK]

I have heard conflicting information and wanted to get some info before I go ask finance their opinion. Basically I heard an officer can sell leave one time in their career, but I have also heard that you can only sell it if you are separating or retiring.

If it is possible to sell leave, could I sell it while on a deployment and avoid the taxes? I will have about 100 days accrued by the next fiscal year so it seems like a good option for me.

Selling leave to avoid taxes = Dumb idea

General selling leave info:

- You can sell leave anytime

- You can only sell back 60 days (max) in your career.

- You only get base pay (no BAH) if you sell leave

My advice: Save that shite for when you are getting out (separating or retiring) and take terminal leave. Higher rank & higher pay by then + Terminal comes with BAH. Not to mention you could pick up another job (even federal) while on terminal.

[Jaded]

You still get paid more overall if you sell it back. 60 days of base pay at O-4 is what, 10k?

[sky_king]

Especially if you never take leave and you have time to max it out before retirement. If you're going to lose it, might as well sell it.

Your time is worth what you determine it's worth and your situation is different from everyone elses. I lost two days of leave last year. They should automatically just give you cash for your lose days until you hit 60. That $360 would have taken some of the bitterness out of being called in to sit SOF on a federal holiday.

[El-Fist]

Are you trying to sell all of your leave or just some that you would lose otherwise? I have never heard of somebody selling just the "use/lose" portion. I kind of doubt you can do that, otherwise they would call it "use/lose/sell." That said, I don't really know the answer, especially concerning retirements.

You can sell leave once in your career.

I had 80 days when I went on terminal leave. You do get all of your normal pay. You and your family are still completely covered under Tricare, which is huge. (Unless you are one of the 6 people that have Obamacare.)

Time is valuable. When I separated, I spent the entire summer hanging out with the family/friends, slinging beer, and hanging out on the beach. There is no way in hell I would have "sold" that time for my normal salary. That compensated time certainly made up a little for all of the time I missed with my family over the last 13 years. Take the leave!

Good luck.

[ThreeHoler]

With the current leave carryover of 75 days, wouldn't you be able to use up to 105 days of terminal leave if you started it in Sep?

[uhhello]

You can sell leave once in your career.

Good luck.

False. As stated before, you can sell up to 60 days throughout your career.

[Azimuth]

You can only carry over 75 days now, so if there isn't a possibility to take the leave, and you've maxed out the amount of terminal you can have (by carrying over 75 days from the last FY), why wouldn't you sell some back? You do get taxed on it though, unless you accrued some of the leave in a tax exempt zone.

[ucf_motorcycle]

I get stonewalled whenever I try to take leave and being deployed or TDY over 250 days a year doesn't leave me much time to take leave. I rather sell it than lose it. But this was what I was told per the AFI: "upon reenlistment, retirement, separation under honorable conditions, or death."

So I guess I can't do it unless I seperate which won't be for a while. Unless someone knows of an exception. Seems like their should be an exception for officer since we never reenilist.