Academy informant program

[LookieRookie]

Always lawyer up

https://www3.gazette.com/projects/project/usafa-informant-program/

[Gravedigger]

God I'm glad I went to a normal school.

[Blue]

Wow. And,

God I'm glad I went to a normal school.

+1

[ThreeHoler]

We always assumed OSI had narcs when I was a cadet. Guess it was true...

[Day Man]

disgusting.

[Karl Hungus]

What an awful place. Feel really sorry for the folks who fall for that trap.

[panchbarnes]

It's a sad article, but I'm not too surprised.

It's just a microcosm of AD AF...

[Champ Kind]

What a terrible story and a complete black eye for the AF.

That being said, I'm not at all surprised.

[Flaco]

I was a little bummed when I left the Zoo after only 4 short months...

That is, until my 1st day on campus at Arizona State.

[Dupe]

Here's a potential other half: those who can't win in court take their fights to the court of public opinion.

[Winchester]

Should that NOC list ever make out to the cadet wing it's gonna be a rough day in Gen Pop. I'd have cut a bitch.

[Marlboro BLACK]

I was a little bummed when I left the Zoo after only 4 short months...

That is, until my 1st day on campus at Arizona State.

Oh the famous Arizona State --- Three campuses, 69,000+ Students ..... about 60% female ..... all dressed accordingly and appropriately for the weather.

My friend ........ you did the right thing

[brickhistory]

Word gets out real fast; don’t trust OSI,” he said.

Winner of most obvious advice of the year.

[sky_king]

uh, yes, I agree. Everyone tell me more about how the feel about this. Also, can anyone send me SOS gouge from their '.mil' email?

[Breckey]

The fact that OSI has to resort to these techniques is ridiculous. Every bad bit of press that happens, it turns into a witch hunt to show that they are doing something productive (gee where have I heard that before). It happened with the 2007 Honor "scandal" and with the recent sexual assault problems.

[Fud]

We always assumed OSI had narcs when I was a cadet. Guess it was true...

I've heard they have them on Active Duty as well. I'm not surprised at any of the points made in the article. There is also a program for people to inform on others called Operation Eagle Eyes. While not the same concept, it is used pretty often from what I hear.

[Flaco]

My friend ........ you did the right thing

My whole plan was to come home, enroll at ASU, and sign up for ROTC. So I visited with the detachment commander and was all set to sign up for ROTC. A few days before enrollment, I got a call from a mentor/friend who was a young United FO. He asked me if I still wanted to be a pilot and told me about a friend of his that was flying F-16s with "the Guard".

"The Guard? Never heard of it. I'm sure they would have told me about it at the Academy if it was legit."

"Just call my friend."

I did, and enlisted a few days later.

Learned a few rules that semester.

Rule 1: Timing is everything

Rule 2: Better lucky than good

[El-Fist]

This story is screwed up in so many ways I can't begin to wrap my junior college/state university educated brain around it. Here is my take:

1.) This entire "scandal" could have been avoided had the kid lawyered up before he signed any non-disclosure documents or answered a single question from OSI. It has been said previously but worth emphasis. Lawyer up!

2.) A rat is a rat. It doesn't make a difference if he/she is wearing a cadet uniform or a prison jump suit. It's the same. You wouldn't want this person in your squadron. Can't trust them, period. We should be glad he isn't getting a commission.

3.) The fact that he was told not to tell his Commander is a total foul, unless the investigation involves the Commander (which it doesn't.) This completely tosses the concept of following and trusting a chain of command. It pretty much says "F.U." to the entire military structure. Great concept to teach future officers. Idiots.

4.) I know there are two sides to every story, but if a grain of this write up is true, heads should roll. It's hard to tell if this was just a few OSI agents stepping way out of line, or if this informant program and interrogation techniques are the ideas from someone wearing stars. Either way teaching future officers not confront an integrity issue head on, or to do shit behind peoples back and disregard the chain of command is dead wrong. What a shitty culture that will be.

5.) I don't know what has changed with our young people but when I was a college kid in the mid to late 90's, we could drink too much, get home safely, not commit rape, and resist the urge smoke stuff that sounds like it could be your mom's grooming products.

6.) Holy crap am I happy I went to junior college then state college and completed it in just 5 short years. Not once did I fear I would be expelled from having a house off campus!

[HeloDude]

The OSI have informants in the ops squadrons to rat people out who are talking about flying for the airlines while still at work.

[LookieRookie]

The OSI have informants in the ops squadrons to rat people out who are talking about flying for the airlines while still at work.

so that's how no-notices work

Edited December 2, 2013 by LookieRookie

[Breckey]

As much as I hate to perpetuate the division of the athlete vs. normal cadet, there is something to be said of the potential decrease in quality of cadet that comes from trying to win NCAA games. This link from the Denver Post reports on discussions at USAFA on making it a 5 year college for some cases. It's easy to read between the lines and see that they are talking about athletes, otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed the AD or football coach. So many things at that place revolve around athletics. The place now has three gyms, one for normal cadets, one for intercollegiates, and a separate one for football players. If they would donate the money to support actual military training (shooting, field craft, flying training) then the cynicism and suck factor of that place would decrease by 69%. Football makes money and it's all that the leadership sees. The physical, fiscal, and time requirements to be a NCAA D-1 football athlete are so high now that the service academies should not be investing the amount of time or money in. Devote it to the other 70% of cadets and make it a better institution, not a better show of ESPN Ocho.

Rant off

[Karl Hungus]

As much as I hate to perpetuate the division of the athlete vs. normal cadet, there is something to be said of the potential decrease in quality of cadet that comes from trying to win NCAA games. This link from the Denver Post reports on discussions at USAFA on making it a 5 year college for some cases. It's easy to read between the lines and see that they are talking about athletes, otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed the AD or football coach. So many things at that place revolve around athletics. The place now has three gyms, one for normal cadets, one for intercollegiates, and a separate one for football players. If they would donate the money to support actual military training (shooting, field craft, flying training) then the cynicism and suck factor of that place would decrease by 69%. Football makes money and it's all that the leadership sees. The physical, fiscal, and time requirements to be a NCAA D-1 football athlete are so high now that the service academies should not be investing the amount of time or money in. Devote it to the other 70% of cadets and make it a better institution, not a better show of ESPN Ocho.

Rant off

Or, just get rid of that shithole altogether.

[panchbarnes]

This story is screwed up in so many ways I can't begin to wrap my junior college/state university educated brain around it. Here is my take:

1.) This entire "scandal" could have been avoided had the kid lawyered up before he signed any non-disclosure documents or answered a single question from OSI. It has been said previously but worth emphasis. Lawyer up!

A couple of things:

1. From the article:

"The agent told him he was there only as a witness." and "The academy teaches cadets not to question superiors, Thomas said. When OSI asked him to do things, he thought he had little choice."

I didn't go to the Academy but I'm guessing a typical college kid don't really know his legal options in this circumstance (and probably scared shitless) especially he was supposedly just a "witness." What's missing from the article is whether or not he was reprimanded for being caught at the party. If so, was he assigned an ADC? An ADC would have been able to advise him on his rights and help him prepare for the "interview."

2. Let's not forget Eric Thomas is not the first nor the only informant at the Academy. It's BS what they did to Vianca Torres, who was also supposedly just a "witness" but coerced into cooperating and then kicked out for an offense unrelated to the original incident.

The problem here is not the Academy leadership but rather the cadets who are cowards for not going to the IG right away and do the right thing...

Edited December 2, 2013 by PanchBarnes

[TreeA10]

Funny thing about sports. Google the highest paid public state employees. IIRC, you will find that in 46 of 50 states, the highest paid individual is a football or basketball coach. The other 4 states are medical or law school deans. What does the Academy deem important? Follow the money.

What caliber of person is being recruited to play at the Academy? Is the selection process aimed at producing a future AF leader or biased towards sports? I would guess the latter which leads to the problems targeted by the OSI.

[Breckey]

The IG or ADC really isn't part of the "Right Start" briefing on inprocessing day.