Academy informant program

[ClearedHot]

There are no words...simply unreal.

[Fuzz]

These kids were brand new sophomores, that just spent the last year having every second of their lives dictated to them. I doubt they knew about the ADC, IG or what their rights were in USAFA let alone the AF judicial system if you had walked up to them them on the Terrazzo and ask them about it, let alone in an interrogation room with an OSI agent.

[HeloDude]

There are no words...simply unreal.

The real question is: Will this be addressed? Or will it be like all the other government scandals in which the senior officials will say, "we're concerned and are looking into it", only to to never hear much of the issue ever again?

Don't worry...the Air Force has got your back.

[Hodor]

Soooo glad I didn't go to the Academy. Though ERAU had it's own little eccentricities.

About the article: I can't believe this crap happens... Its just illustrates the caliber of individual allowed in positions these days I suppose, though I don't have much experience in the CAF yet

[Vetter]

Unbelievable.

[Jaded]

OSI needs more oversight. Totally unacceptable.

[ClearedHot]

The real question is: Will this be addressed? Or will it be like all the other government scandals in which the senior officials will say, "we're concerned and are looking into it", only to to never hear much of the issue ever again?

It will be, it has to be now that Congress is digging and sadly, it will be yet another distraction that keeps Welsh from taking a major league swing at some of the real shit we want him to fix.

[guineapigfury]

So, things ended badly for those who deceived their friends and chain of command. There is a lesson in there somewhere.

[AnimalMother]

OSI needs more oversight. Totally unacceptable.

OSI needs to be disbanded completely. I've had the misfortune of dealing with them (both directly and indirectly) on several occasions. That community is absolutely vile. If this article has any shred of veracity I hope it motivates some significant changes. If nothing else, maybe it will serve as a warning to others whose paths may cross with this group of malfeasant thugs.

[billy pilgrim]

Maybe it's time to bring back SERE at USAFA??

[TrainerModel]

Big picture, nothing will happen. They never do, not there, wayyy too much brass involved for anything to change. My junior year a girl who was successfully found guilty of an honor violation (it was her second violation and second time with a guilty verdict) was recommended for dis-enrollment, which in 99.99% of cases means you're gone...unless your daddy is a general. So this chicks dad is a general, forgot the number of stars, and she was personally retained by the commandant of cadets, a former KCVS Wing/CC, who decided to reverse the boards decision.

I will say this kids story sounds ed up, mostly OSI's handling of things, however, it usually takes a lot more than sneaking off campus to get kicked out. However, I'm sure there is more info about his circumstances the former cadet didn't offer up in this story

[Hacker]

This quote from the article sums it all up; not just in terms of this idiocy at USAFA, but the current climate in Big Blue.

While the informant program has resulted in prosecutions, it also creates a fundamental rift between the culture of honesty and trust the academy drills into cadets and another one of duplicity and betrayal that the Air Force clandestinely deploys to root out misconduct.

[pawnman]

The real question is: Will this be addressed? Or will it be like all the other government scandals in which the senior officials will say, "we're concerned and are looking into it", only to to never hear much of the issue ever again?

Don't worry...the Air Force has got your back.

More witch hunts, this time for any references to drugs and drug culture in the squadron.

[Warrior]

As much as I hate to perpetuate the division of the athlete vs. normal cadet, there is something to be said of the potential decrease in quality of cadet that comes from trying to win NCAA games. This link from the Denver Post reports on discussions at USAFA on making it a 5 year college for some cases. It's easy to read between the lines and see that they are talking about athletes, otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed the AD or football coach. So many things at that place revolve around athletics. The place now has three gyms, one for normal cadets, one for intercollegiates, and a separate one for football players. If they would donate the money to support actual military training (shooting, field craft, flying training) then the cynicism and suck factor of that place would decrease by 69%. Football makes money and it's all that the leadership sees. The physical, fiscal, and time requirements to be a NCAA D-1 football athlete are so high now that the service academies should not be investing the amount of time or money in. Devote it to the other 70% of cadets and make it a better institution, not a better show of ESPN Ocho.

Rant off

I would love to see the service academies play D-III sports. Then you funnel all the football money into the soaring/wings of blue programs. One argument I've consistently heard for sports programs is recruiting-just imagine what having more jump teams would do for recruiting if you had a team jump into the MI vs Ohio state game in front of 110k people. You know-it might help us recruit people who want to fly and do shit the AF does.

[Danny Noonin]

just imagine what having more jump teams would do for recruiting if you had a team jump into the MI vs Ohio state game in front of 110k people. You know-it might help us recruit people who want to fly and do shit the AF does.

We do a lot of parachuting in the AF?

[Fifty-six & Two]

I would love to see the service academies play D-III sports. Then you funnel all the football money into the soaring/wings of blue programs. One argument I've consistently heard for sports programs is recruiting-just imagine what having more jump teams would do for recruiting if you had a team jump into the MI vs Ohio state game in front of 110k people. You know-it might help us recruit people who want to fly and do shit the AF does.

Right...because the majority of the Air Force jumps out of planes.

"Do shit the AF does" = recruiting people that won't know their own regs, thereby forcing more work upon aircrew, are stupid & lazy, and know there are no repercussions for ing things up? I don't think the AF needs to jump into football games to acquire that kind of talent.

[brewskis]

I know 3 OSI agents between my commissioning source and ASBC. Of those three, one was generally a good dude and a solid bro (at least at the time). The other two, however, couldn't wait to be 'elite' , 'make some arrests' or "ruin some careers" (that last one was seriously a direct quote). They really seemed to just crave authority and power over others. My guess is that this is probably representative of the entire department.

[Vertigo]

^{To the program, the rats, and the cover up.}

Edited December 2, 2013 by Vertigo

[sputnik]

Warrior,

I think we all know budgeting is a strange animal, but sports receive very little govt funding. Football is one of the few sports that actually pays for itself. It also pays the bills for nearly every other team here. Pushing football back to D-III won't free up any money, it'll just disappear. As will most of the other sports teams here.

I'm sure there's another side to the story specific to this kid. But I can't imagine it'll make OSI look any better.

[sputnik]

Reiterating this suggestion because it seems like the best choice. But then again, if you choose to go to a place like USAFA, you reap what you sow.

Confused who is doing the reaping and who is doing the sowing in your statement. And wtf farming has to do with this.

Don't want to ruin anyone's chance to bag on the academy, but was your takeaway from reading the article really that the academy has a problem? Or is there a problem with OSI? Cause if it's the latter, it's still going to exist even if you nuke the Academy tomorrow.

Edited December 2, 2013 by sputnik

[Champ Kind]

I'm saying that attending that place like that involves putting yourself at the mercy of PC witch hunts, snitches, and narcs to a much greater degree than one who attends a civilian school. But it's worth it to some people. Hence, you reap what you sow.

Like these bright-eyed kids know that when they decide to attend.

[mcbush]

Like these bright-eyed kids know that when they decide to attend.

It was indeed a much different place than what I had expected, personally, and usually not in a good way.

[Rokke]

Don't want to ruin anyone's chance to bag on the academy, but was your takeaway from reading the article really that the academy has a problem? Or is there a problem with OSI?

I'm trying to figure out why people are saying ASU, FSU, UW etc are a better option. My takeaway from reading the article is that Animal House could be filmed at USAFA if they ever want to film it again. Good times.

[PushItUp]

I will say this kids story sounds ######ed up, mostly OSI's handling of things, however, it usually takes a lot more than sneaking off campus to get kicked out. However, I'm sure there is more info about his circumstances the former cadet didn't offer up in this story

The kid was in my squadron, I would guess there is much more to the story than what he presents in this article. You only get recruited to "inform" on people if you got in trouble in the first place. The "you help us, we'll help you" type of thing. As for the demerits he racked up, he missed pretty much everything he would have to go to, even morning formation and breakfast....I doubt OSI would need to talk to him at 0630 and have him miss every formation possible. Also, the kid was the "runaway basic" he got nearly 200 demerits for that one event where he dressed up as a basic when he was sophomore and jumped a fence and ran away. The base sent out searches and I think they even locked down the base and basic training stopped ops. It was big deal and he got in a ton of trouble for it.

I didn't know him all really well, but I would be careful in believing the things he is saying to the media. It took him months to get kicked out, longer than usual because he was pulling out every stop to get a chance to stay. I understand he would want to stay and if the story is true, I'd be pissed as well. But when you don't go to anything, don't do your job, and fail the PFT your firstie year, I'd say it wasn't his involvement with OSI that caused him to get kicked out.

On another note, the informant "program" is an actual thing. If you're involved in a sketchy situation and can get more info, you help to inform OSI about what's going on and who's involved...pretty standard for law enforcement and investigation in general.I am very skeptical about the informant program as it is portrayed in the article, but cadets are used as informants if there's issues going on that they can help OSI with.

Edit: clarified "informants" as used at the Academy

Edited December 2, 2013 by PushItUp

[ClearedHot]

Why is everyone so upset, this type of system worked really well in the past.

The Secret Political Department (SPO), in addition to running the general system of informants, operated special informants to infiltrate suspected counterrevolutionary groups. Finally, the Transportation Department (TO), and the Operational Department (Operotdel), also ran their own special informants networks. In addition to these networks a separate network of special informants operated under the GULAG administration in labor camps, colonies, and special settlements.