China & Chinese Shenanigans

[Biff_T]

4 hours ago, Prozac said:

“Crew servicing/forklift training”:  You pilots have gotta learn how to load those 100 UAVs on the tanker. We’ll be developing a technique whereby we depressurize and open the cargo bay in flight so we can deploy the things over the battlefield. You will then enter an orbit pattern over enemy forces, open the cockpit window, and “empty the clip” of your M9 into the heads of our enemies.  We are calling this concept “gunship lite”. Oh and one more thing men; you will be doing all of this single pilot. Any questions? No? Good. Now, move out, we’re going to war boys! 

Sir, just one question.  Who's going to get the ATIS?  

[nsplayr]

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by nsplayr

[Danger41]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

I’m all for more focus on the mission, esprit de corps, and treating military members like warfighters. Doesn’t mean the pendulum has to swing to absurdity. Single pilot tankers launching a hundred UAVs into the fight is a bit much. How about AMC just shifts focus back to flying/mission basics for a while & see how that works before crafting grand “outside the box” schemes to utilize platforms in ways they were never designed to operate? 

I stole it and have preached it for years that the key to greatness is being brilliant at the basics. So I’m with you 100%. But unless 22 years (JFC) of GWOT and the ONW/OSW/WW Desert Storm have taught me, the mobility bros are pretty amazing at the basics. Not many people know about the mobility role in Schwarzkopf’s left hook but that whole thing doesn’t happen without AMC (MAC at the time). 
 

But now, this reminds me of the Tomcat looking for relevancy after the Cold War ended and the Soviet bomber cruise missile swarms weren’t a thing. They reinvented the platform into a great strike fighter. Same with the Viper going from a day VFR fighter to damn near everything under the sun. Same with the C-130 evolving into the AC-130 in Vietnam after the previous Gunships paved the way. Same with the F-4 evolving into a very good SEAD platform prior to retirement. I think the B-25 showed some pretty decent, non-standard use on April 18, 1942.
 

Why can’t a tanker be a delivery platform for UAS? Hell, take the AC-J internal CLT mounting configuration, crank it to 11 and you could easily put 100 of those in the back. Yes, you’d have to cut holes, flight test, etc but you could turn the back into a radio shack setup with a laptop and have all that shit ran by the boom when he’s not being a boom (aka napping 95% of the time). The earlier Block Draco variants were pretty much cables and laptops everywhere with dudes making it work. It’s very doable.

I always thought the tanker force in Afghanistan/Iraq should’ve had some passive collect capability while they covered the whole country 24/7 in the tracks. Maybe they did, I’ll have to check my garage scif but nobody told me. 

 

I also saw the proposal for AMP-4 ops and think that should be approved tomorrow. Get some IP’s to Hurlburt/Cannon with the MC dudes, fly a few locals, get some academics on it, and press. To the uneducated outsider, this is the litmus test for me of if this whole endeavor will make any headway. Unfair or not, my perception is that AMC has some incredibly risk averse people that call “safety of flight!” For damn near anything. AMP-4 is something different but well within your command’s capabilities. If it gets hung up by those in the Safety camp*, nothing will change. 

My passion for this topic is probably pretty evident. My favorite line in a movie is in the Departed when Jack Nicholson’s character talks about how John Lennon said “I’m an artist. You give me a fucking tuba, I’ll get you something out of it”. That’s how I view my time in the AF. I may not have the tools but I’ll do what I can to help win. The other reason IGAF about this is I can’t stand cynicism (copy shot on picking the worst profession in the world for that). My hero, Theodore Roosevelt, talked about it and I actually had this on my wall as a young Danger.

”The poorest way to face life is to face it with a sneer. There are many men who feel a kind of twisted pride in cynicism; there are many who confine themselves to criticism of the way others do what they themselves dare not even attempt. There is no more unhealthy being, no man less worthy of respect, than he who either really holds, or feigns to hold, an attitude of sneering disbelief toward all that is great and lofty, whether in achievement or in that noble effort which, even if it fails, comes to second achievement.” 
 

That’s a very long, very rambling way of saying I hope AMC gets after this stuff and finds ways to win.
 

This post brought to you by the good people of Basil Hayden’s.

*Safety is critically important and I’m not advocating for stupid risk. If these things prove to be stupid, then don’t do it.

[Prozac]

14 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I stole it and have preached it for years that the key to greatness is being brilliant at the basics. So I’m with you 100%. But unless 22 years (JFC) of GWOT and the ONW/OSW/WW Desert Storm have taught me, the mobility bros are pretty amazing at the basics. Not many people know about the mobility role in Schwarzkopf’s left hook but that whole thing doesn’t happen without AMC (MAC at the time). 
 

But now, this reminds me of the Tomcat looking for relevancy after the Cold War ended and the Soviet bomber cruise missile swarms weren’t a thing. They reinvented the platform into a great strike fighter. Same with the Viper going from a day VFR fighter to damn near everything under the sun. Same with the C-130 evolving into the AC-130 in Vietnam after the previous Gunships paved the way. Same with the F-4 evolving into a very good SEAD platform prior to retirement. I think the B-25 showed some pretty decent, non-standard use on April 18, 1942.
 

Why can’t a tanker be a delivery platform for UAS? Hell, take the AC-J internal CLT mounting configuration, crank it to 11 and you could easily put 100 of those in the back. Yes, you’d have to cut holes, flight test, etc but you could turn the back into a radio shack setup with a laptop and have all that shit ran by the boom when he’s not being a boom (aka napping 95% of the time). The earlier Block Draco variants were pretty much cables and laptops everywhere with dudes making it work. It’s very doable.

I always thought the tanker force in Afghanistan/Iraq should’ve had some passive collect capability while they covered the whole country 24/7 in the tracks. Maybe they did, I’ll have to check my garage scif but nobody told me. 

 

I also saw the proposal for AMP-4 ops and think that should be approved tomorrow. Get some IP’s to Hurlburt/Cannon with the MC dudes, fly a few locals, get some academics on it, and press. To the uneducated outsider, this is the litmus test for me of if this whole endeavor will make any headway. Unfair or not, my perception is that AMC has some incredibly risk averse people that call “safety of flight!” For damn near anything. AMP-4 is something different but well within your command’s capabilities. If it gets hung up by those in the Safety camp*, nothing will change. 

My passion for this topic is probably pretty evident. My favorite line in a movie is in the Departed when Jack Nicholson’s character talks about how John Lennon said “I’m an artist. You give me a fucking tuba, I’ll get you something out of it”. That’s how I view my time in the AF. I may not have the tools but I’ll do what I can to help win. The other reason IGAF about this is I can’t stand cynicism (copy shot on picking the worst profession in the world for that). My hero, Theodore Roosevelt, talked about it and I actually had this on my wall as a young Danger.

”The poorest way to face life is to face it with a sneer. There are many men who feel a kind of twisted pride in cynicism; there are many who confine themselves to criticism of the way others do what they themselves dare not even attempt. There is no more unhealthy being, no man less worthy of respect, than he who either really holds, or feigns to hold, an attitude of sneering disbelief toward all that is great and lofty, whether in achievement or in that noble effort which, even if it fails, comes to second achievement.” 
 

That’s a very long, very rambling way of saying I hope AMC gets after this stuff and finds ways to win.
 

This post brought to you by the good people of Basil Hayden’s.

*Safety is critically important and I’m not advocating for stupid risk. If these things prove to be stupid, then don’t do it.

Great post & I really liked the TR quote. I agree with just about everything you said with a couple caveats:

1. As far as being amazing at the basics goes; It’s been a few years since I left, but at the time, there was an immense amount of focus on ancillary functions that came at the expense of focusing on the core mission. Speaking with friends who have more recent experience than I do, I’m inclined to believe that hasn’t changed for the better. There’s certainly a time for thinking outside the box, but you’d better be sure your core competence is pretty rock solid. Walk before you run and all that. 
 

2. Modifying/repurposing the KC-135 airframe to be a drone carrier: While your take certainly has some merit and potential, the necessary mods & training are far beyond the scope and timeframe of what Minihan is apparently proposing. Adding an all new mission set and cutting holes in airplanes are not something you can just delegate to Wing CCs and say “make it happen”. There certainly may be a case to be made for this added capability, but there is a process for doing things like this & a command wide memo probably ain’t it. (Admittedly, I have no idea what other actions the AMC/CC has taken to explore adding this cape - he may be well along in the process, but from the tone of the memo I kinda doubt that’s the case). Additionally, based on my own experience with the ROBE program (which turned airborne tankers into a datalink node), adding capes on the fly without a whole lot of budget or training usually results in lackluster results & places needless stresses on a crew that should be focused on their core mission. And believe it or not, the AR mission can be challenging at times. 
 

All that said, I appreciate your response & it was a good reminder to an old salty guy that checking one’s cynical outlook occasionally is probably a good idea. I’ll raise my Tsingtao (sitting in a hotel in Asia at the moment) to your Basil (I salute your good taste btw). Cheers! 🍻

[ATIS]

5 hours ago, Danger41 said:

The earlier Block Draco variants were pretty much cables and laptops [and a massive radio rack/mini-fridge sized server stack] everywhere with dudes [and a few dudettes] making it work.

“Shack” and a head nod to the pilots/NFO’s and maintainers/SNC folks that kept it working on station. 
 

Cheers

ATIS

[ClearedHot]

@Prozac @Danger41

You both have excellent points and perspective and these are discussions that we NEED to be having if we want to defeat/deter China.

FWIW, Mini is an old friend and we shared a beer at WEPTAC two weeks ago, two things that struck and impressed me: 

1.  While we were talking about old times and family a steady stream of captains and majors walked by and engaged him with ideas...they were not seeking career advice or face time, they were bringing genuine ideas on how to solve tough problems.  He took the time and engaged with every single one of them. 

2.  At one point two captains engaged and brought a contractor along.  They were brain-storming through a current tough tactical problem and had an idea that was actually very good and it combined some capes we already have.  Mini immediately grasped what they were saying and said "put it together and bring me 467 of them."  The captains and contractor actually seemed shocked, finally one of them blurted out "serious?"  Mini immediately replied "I am trying to win a war here!"

I know in the past we have had false hope in some of these GO's, and knowing Mini gives me some bias, but what I saw was a very senior leader genuinely interested in defeating China even if that meant changing the status quo.  He was also setting the environment to bring as many ideas and inputs as possible into the conversation.  So while things like single pilot tanker ops loading with cruise missiles may get a lot of eye rolls, I think that line of out of the box thinking and the willingness to foster it is what makes us better. 

[DuckHunter]

Gotta love the world we live in today.  In one breath people are saying “(insert woke ideology here) is the reason we are going to lose to China”, are probably the same ones complaining when someone actually does more than just talk about it.

I’m not calling out anybody in particular, just a general social media observation.

I’m just happy somebody is actually trying to do something, instead of analyzing the problem, coming up with 6-9 coas, reanalyzing, performing a study, 3-5 coas, picking one then nobody actually doing anything with it.

[Sua Sponte]

[Biff_T]

50 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

 

[Sua Sponte]

22 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

That's me when I fell out of the cargo door of a KC-135, twice.

[ClearedHot]

Like I said, Mini is serious about his concern...I hope they don't crucify him for this memo because he is right.

Air Force general predicts war with China in 2025, tells officers to prep by firing 'a clip' at a target, and 'aim for the head'

“I hope I am wrong. My gut tells me will fight in 2025," said Gen. Mike Minihan in a memo sent to the officers he commands and obtained by NBC News.

[uhhello]

Has there been any actual proof that this is legit?  

[BE36]

Oh it’s legit, it was sent out in a mass email most of AMC received.  

[O Face]

Bet this will raise some eyebrows…And for Milley, that’s gotta be excruciating. 

[uhhello]

Looks like the first KC-135 Drone mothership already completed it's first strike downton Tehran.  Four different regions had strikes/explosions.  

Edited January 28, 2023 by uhhello

[Biff_T]

2 hours ago, O Face said:

Bet this will raise some eyebrows…And for Milley, that’s gotta be excruciating. 

[dream big]

On 1/27/2023 at 5:33 PM, nsplayr said:

 

WTF is this memo real??

Of course it’s real. While the rest of his 4 star buddies are focused on pronouns and diversity TED talks, he is actually focused on what matters and what will kill us. If you’ve ever met the guy, you know, he’s the real deal. 

Make whatever ATIS and fat chick jokes you want, INDOPACOM presents a logistics, movement, and maneuver challenge that we have never seen before and it’s nice that AMC is finally focused on the mission instead of 1206s.

[Boomer6]

The tanker meme stream doesn’t seem too impressed…

[Runr6730]

What are the odds this was supposed to be addressed only to NAF and Wg/CCs and was never meant to be sent to AMC/All?  I, for one, like hearing what my commanders are thinking straight from the horse’s mouth vs whatever watered-down version I get once it’s been through 6-9 levels of middle management. 

[ClearedHot]

2 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

What are the odds this was supposed to be addressed only to NAF and Wg/CCs and was never meant to be sent to AMC/All?  I, for one, like hearing what my commanders are thinking straight from the horse’s mouth vs whatever watered-down version I get once it’s been through 6-9 levels of middle management. 

 

And the Eyebrow raising has begun..."These comments are not representative of the department's view on China," a U.S. defense official said.

[BE36]

5 hours ago, dream big said:

AMC is finally focused on the mission instead of 1206s.

As an exec right now, it’s more do all of this AND maintain “administrative excellence.”    If that means crush an MPC and then come back to the office for bullet wizardry, then so be it.  

[Lord Ratner]

You know it's funny, I read the memo and immediately believed it was false because of the tone.

 

But then I think about what a lot of Elon musk's messages, or Steve Jobs messages, or Jeff bezos's messages sound like, and it actually fits the mold. It's just so strange to hear anybody commit to a real vision, because we live in a world of people playing it safe. 

 

That said, there is a 0.0% chance of this guy lasting in the Air Force now. He's played his hand from a position that does not allow you to have that type of vision. Only the top dog can, and he's quite a few rungs below.

 

We have the same problem in corporate America. Companies that achieve great things through the vision and perseverance of their founder are eventually led by accountants and Wall Street hacks chosen by a board of other accountants and Wall Street hacks. Sometimes your board might have some other founders on it, but they're founders from different companies with different visions, and they don't offer anything useful to the company. Shareholders will only ever agree on one vision, short-term profits. So that's the type of leaders you get.

 

This guy is done for. The current president of the United States has family members who are making money from China. And his transgressions are child's play compared to the entirety of the academic, corporate, and media world. China has done an incredible job of warming their tendrils into some of the biggest and most powerful institutions in America, and they aren't going to be extricated one at a time. China will have to do something so catastrophically unacceptable that America will just have to rip the Band-Aid off. And a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money in power, just like when we ripped the band-aid off Russia, but that's what it took.

 

I hope Mini enjoys his retirement. It's coming soon.

[HeloDude]

I’m sure President Biden and his fantastic press secretary will have something insightful to say this week regarding the General’s remarks.

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

You know it's funny, I read the memo and immediately believed it was false because of the tone.

But then I think about what a lot of Elon musk's messages, or Steve Jobs messages, or Jeff bezos's messages sound like, and it actually fits the mold. It's just so strange to hear anybody commit to a real vision, because we live in a world of people playing it safe. 

That said, there is a 0.0% chance of this guy lasting in the Air Force now. He's played his hand from a position that does not allow you to have that type of vision. Only the top dog can, and he's quite a few rungs below.

We have the same problem in corporate America. Companies that achieve great things through the vision and perseverance of their founder are eventually led by accountants and Wall Street hacks chosen by a board of other accountants and Wall Street hacks. Sometimes your board might have some other founders on it, but they're founders from different companies with different visions, and they don't offer anything useful to the company. Shareholders will only ever agree on one vision, short-term profits. So that's the type of leaders you get.

This guy is done for. The current president of the United States has family members who are making money from China. And his transgressions are child's play compared to the entirety of the academic, corporate, and media world. China has done an incredible job of warming their tendrils into some of the biggest and most powerful institutions in America, and they aren't going to be extricated one at a time. China will have to do something so catastrophically unacceptable that America will just have to rip the Band-Aid off. And a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money in power, just like when we ripped the band-aid off Russia, but that's what it took.

I hope Mini enjoys his retirement. It's coming soon.

I hear and think you are mostly right but f*** it, who cares, when we are given the chance to speak the truth from a place and platform that the troops, the warfighters, the mission hackers can hear it and not get watered down by the Bobs, yes men and future apparatchiks of the nat sec blob, we should take it.  

Maybe this was planned, maybe they told him to be the guy to say what needed to be said publicly then rebuked but he has now said the emperor has no clothes and it is in the public space and probably now acceptable for other leaders to say well I would said it differently but.. it's true so we're gonna focus on real military shit because WW3 is upcoming...

Edited January 29, 2023 by Clark Griswold

[StoleIt]

Kinda weird that the memo is dated 1 Feb (a couple days in the future from when it was sent). But, overlooking that slight anomaly, I think it was a poor attempt to try and (re)galvanize AMC into a wartime mindset. The people that are going to have to worry about their vRED and getting slapped around by China don't need to be told to empty a "clip" (WTF) into the head. Ops and MXG already have that mind set. Get the other groups onboard. But that will never happen. The frozen middle administrators in support roles in AMC make everything harder than it needs to be.

I want to be optimistic about what he is trying to accomplish but this memo was a piss poor attempt IMO.

February:

My bases CATM literally can't keep up with the current demand so all the pilots we have no longer keep up weapons qual. Now they want everyone to shoot in the month February? Okay...that's not going to happen.

Update vRED. Neat. Can I just wait until it's mandatory for me to update it or do I literally need to waste time and look it over? Also, thanks for reminding me that in a war with China I'm gonna die. I'll just add that to my pros/cons of getting out of the Air Force list...how much QOL is dying worth? I guess the $400k SGLI will be nice though...anyone know if civilian life insurance covers PL-15's or is that something I have to get specific policy for?

March:

Go see JAG to get my household affairs in order. Neat...again. Maybe the JAG will know the answer about my life insurance question. I think I'll just push the separation button slightly earlier actually. I can do that from my office instead of going all the way to the JAG.

We can't even get a working autopilot on the -135 and you want to modify it to be a drone carrier? How about we get it back into RVSM airspace as a realistic and achievable goal.

/rant