China & Chinese Shenanigans

[Lawman]

That's a straw man argument. No one said or pretended there's been a time without any human conflict.
You seem to be saying any conflict is acceptable because that's simply how the sausage gets made. Don't you see the irony in prefacing that with calling any other position "bold faced ignorance brought from a position of insulated relaxation"? I gotta give you credit, however. That's the strangest insult I've ever been given here, and many attempts have been made. You seem to be an astute student of history. Maybe review what you're calling an autocratic land-grab to avoid any appearances of ignorance or irony.
I'm sure most of us here have seen the (if I may substitute) "freedom and democracy" getting made. One of my many memories is Capt Matt August. Three helos landed behind our Herc one night in Baghdad. His buddies carried him up the ramp and placed him into the HR container. The sight of 12-15 Army dudes, all arms around someone else's shoulders, crying standing there with my crew and I,while a Chaplain shouted his impromptu memorial service and prayers above the noise of the GTC (APU) is a memory I won't forget. I'm sure It didn't seem like a "little brush fire" to those who knew him and I would be hesitant to dismiss it as such.
I just spent a day at the new WWII museum in New Orleans last Saturday. Absolutely fanastic. Highly recommended. It was good to be reminded how much resistance there was to enter the war until the pre-conditions crossed a relatively high threshold. And it when they did, it was a monumental effort of which the entire country was behind, designed to achieve a quick and decisive victory.
I'm not a peacenik against all war. My contention is our current pre-conditions and thresholds for engaging, or continuing to engage, in foreign conflicts are often too low or for the wrong reasons, not that there shouldn't be any conflict.

Had the world military powers of the time done the right thing and refused Hitler the Sudetenland, he would have lacked much of the necessary military industrial strength necessary to fight wars.

Had they then when given a second bite at the apple actually gone to war as they said they would instead of executing 6mo of, “the phony war,” they’d have engaged a German Army depleted in strength and sapped with casualties and logistical shortcomings, instead they waited and allowed them to consolidate and engage on their terms.

They did that because of a populist belief they could/should avoid conflict and aggression at the cost of “those people over there” who aren’t in our foreign interests. In the end that commitment to inaction left them with no choice but to fight an eventually far more bloody/costly war. So when you bring up that one time you pulled a Hero mission up your ramp you are attempting to do the same, particularly when you make some appeal on one hand to maintaining influence and avoiding conflict, and pretend with the other that we aren’t doing exactly that successfully in places like the Ukraine. And it also serves as a bold warning to a Chinese government trying to figure out how to divert from its home front population problems. A war in your own terms is not nearly the attractive idea when it looks like you will lose badly.


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[gearhog]

44 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Had the world military powers of the time done the right thing and refused Hitler the Sudetenland, he would have lacked much of the necessary military industrial strength necessary to fight wars.

Had they then when given a second bite at the apple actually gone to war as they said they would instead of executing 6mo of, “the phony war,” they’d have engaged a German Army depleted in strength and sapped with casualties and logistical shortcomings, instead they waited and allowed them to consolidate and engage on their terms.

They did that because of a populist belief they could/should avoid conflict and aggression at the cost of “those people over there” who aren’t in our foreign interests. In the end that commitment to inaction left them with no choice but to fight an eventually far more bloody/costly war. So when you bring up that one time you pulled a Hero mission up your ramp you are attempting to do the same, particularly when you make some appeal on one hand to maintaining influence and avoiding conflict, and pretend with the other that we aren’t doing exactly that successfully in places like the Ukraine. And it also serves as a bold warning to a Chinese government trying to figure out how to divert from its home front population problems. A war in your own terms is not nearly the attractive idea when it looks like you will lose badly.

LOL. As soon as I posted, I predicted you would armchair General the decisions of those actually living at the time. Of course you would have invaded earlier after consulting your WWII history books. So ridiculous.

Your third paragraph isn't written clearly. I know you're being critical, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry.

EDIT: I think I may have deciphered some of it. I think you're saying the deaths of all of our people in Iraq was worth it because it avoided a larger conflict later on. Perhaps one where all that yellow cake was processed into nuclear weapons that Sadaam would have used to destroy the world. Also, we're preventing a wider conflict by funding a war that's weakening Russia faster than it's weakening Ukraine as evidenced by Russia's near collapse since this argument was made 2 years ago. We're avoiding escalation and improving our influence around the globe. Sort of like arguing your last COVID episode would have been "so much worse" if you hadn't gotten your shot or the Afghanistan surge prevented over a dozen 9/11s. Hard to argue against that.

You make some great points.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by gearhog

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Lawman said:

And it also serves as a bold warning to a Chinese government trying to figure out how to divert from its home front population problems.

FIFY.

[Lawman]

LOL. As soon as I posted, I predicted you would armchair General the decisions of those actually living at the time. Of course you would have invaded earlier after consulting your WWII history books. So ridiculous.
Your third paragraph isn't written clearly. I know you're being critical, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry.
EDIT: I think I may have deciphered some of it. I think you're saying the deaths of all of our people in Iraq was worth it because it avoided a larger conflict later on. Perhaps one where all that yellow cake was processed into nuclear weapons that Sadaam would have used to destroy the world. Also, we're preventing a wider conflict by funding a war that's weakening Russia faster than it's weakening Ukraine as evidenced by Russia's near collapse since this argument was made 2 years ago. We're avoiding escalation and improving our influence around the globe. Sort of like arguing your last COVID episode would have been "so much worse" if you hadn't gotten your shot or the Afghanistan surge prevented over a dozen 9/11s. Hard to argue against that.
You make some great points.
 

The lesson from hindsight isn’t “well if they’d just” as an appeal to how much smarter we are, it’s to go “that was stupid, they ignored warnings x/y/z,” and then learn and apply it to present situations.

Rewarding naked Russian aggression by simply sitting over here and “seeing to our own problems” or whatever BS excuse is offered would be the opposite of that. In <2 years we have gone from posturing NATO to repel a viable conventional military threat from the Suwalki gap, to watching that threat absorb 100-125k casualties, loose 1/3 of its conventional attack helicopters, somewhere between 1500-2500 front line armored vehicles (its pulling BTR-50s out of storage for Christ sake), and empty munition stocks that would be necessary for any engagement with NATO. And it cost us how many lives exactly? But sure we could just see to our own problems and nobody would have died for sure. Nothing would have been gained, and I’m sure I wouldn’t be deploying (again) this year to Poland.

And by doing so despite you and others pretending it doesn’t, the Chinese are evaluating a war stock of weapons they get to watch underperform embarrassingly in Ukraine. Now take those same weapons and put yourself in executing the largest amphibious operation since D Day but really, except over 4 times the distance without any of the logistics.


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[gearhog]

2 minutes ago, Lawman said:

The lesson from hindsight isn’t “well if they’d just” as an appeal to how much smarter we are, it’s to go “that was stupid, they ignored warnings x/y/z,” and then learn and apply it to present situations.

Rewarding naked Russian aggression by simply sitting over here and “seeing to our own problems” or whatever BS excuse is offered would be the opposite of that. In <2 years we have gone from posturing NATO to repel a viable conventional military threat from the Suwalki gap, to watching that threat absorb 100-125k casualties, loose 1/3 of its conventional attack helicopters, somewhere between 1500-2500 front line armored vehicles (its pulling BTR-50s out of storage for Christ sake), and empty munition stocks that would be necessary for any engagement with NATO. And it cost us how many lives exactly? But sure we could just see to our own problems and nobody would have died for sure. Nothing would have been gained, and I’m sure I wouldn’t be deploying (again) this year to Poland.

What you're consistently engaging in is a logical fallacy called Hypothesis Contrary to Fact or Speculative Fallacy. To say that if you were the Supreme Allied Commander, you would have done things differently in WWII and less lives would have been lost is an impossible claim to support. To say that not funding and compelling Ukraine to fight Russia would result in a greater tragedy is equally silly. This conflict didn't being in 2022 as you would like to frame it. I'm sure you've seen the posts here regarding the events in 2014. Do your own research. The Russian/Ukraine economic package was a threat to the West, so the Ukrainian government was overthrown and replaced with this one. This is about wealth, power, and influence, not an existential threat to the US, or even the West.

The difference in our positions is I can assess the facts of the present actual situation and say that the actions and decisions have resulted in provable undesirable outcomes. Your position is based purely on speculation and belief of what might have been if we failed to pay Ukrainian leadership to send its citizens to the slaughter. So when you bring up that one time you did your Hero mission to Poland, don't forget those low-cost lives you're protecting.

And you go on to claim that "we" are not losing any lives. Who is "we"? US citizens? NATO member citizens? Our allies the Ukrainians? Last I checked, there are significant losses on both sides. I've asked this before and haven't gotten much in the way of an answer. Why do you tout the relatively low cost of war but fail to mention the tens of thousands of Ukrainians being force fed into the meat grinder for your benefit? I'd think you'd garner more respect if you openly advocated for fighting your own battles. To brag that some other poor sucker did so you don't have to seems in bad taste.

 

[Lawman]

What you're consistently engaging in is a logical fallacy called Hypothesis Contrary to Fact or Speculative Fallacy. To say that if you were the Supreme Allied Commander, you would have done things differently in WWII and less lives would have been lost is an impossible claim to support. To say that not funding and compelling Ukraine to fight Russia would result in a greater tragedy is equally silly. This conflict didn't being in 2022 as you would like to frame it. I'm sure you've seen the posts here regarding the events in 2014. Do your own research. The Russian/Ukraine economic package was a threat to the West, so the Ukrainian government was overthrown and replaced with this one. This is about wealth, power, and influence, not an existential threat to the US, or even the West.
The difference in our positions is I can assess the facts of the present actual situation and say that the actions and decisions have resulted in provable undesirable outcomes. Your position is based purely on speculation and belief of what might have been if we failed to pay Ukrainian leadership to send its citizens to the slaughter. So when you bring up that one time you did your Hero mission to Poland, don't forget those low-cost lives you're protecting.
And you go on to claim that "we" are not losing any lives. Who is "we"? US citizens? NATO member citizens? Our allies the Ukrainians? Last I checked, there are significant losses on both sides. I've asked this before and haven't gotten much in the way of an answer. Why do you tout the relatively low cost of war but fail to mention the tens of thousands of Ukrainians being force fed into the meat grinder for your benefit? I'd think you'd garner more respect if you openly advocated for fighting your own battles. To brag that some other poor sucker did so you don't have to seems in bad taste.
 

Yes it’s impossible to examine historical actions by Russia and ponder whether or not Ukrainian citizens would be “better off” had we (the west) simply cut off any aid or attempt to neuter Russia in response to THEIR naked aggression.

No we couldn’t possibly look at the last decade+ of bad decisions with regards to treating them either apologetically when they invaded countries, or seeking ways to back away from any real effective resistance to their actions in Europe/Syria/Etc. maybe make a conscious decision that just going the way we’ve been going has done nothing to head off further aggressions (backing away during Georgia, Crimea, etc).

But there would have been no human cost yo simply letting them invade. And Atlantic Resolve would just go away. Some guy that was in GWOT for a hot minute on the internet told us all so. We’ve adopted the “middle ground” position you’ve been demanding yet you and others want to portray such as open military warfare. What we are doing right now is nothing of the sort.


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[gearhog]

26 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Yes it’s impossible to examine historical actions by Russia and ponder whether or not Ukrainian citizens would be “better off” had we (the west) simply cut off any aid or attempt to neuter Russia in response to THEIR naked aggression.

No we couldn’t possibly look at the last decade+ of bad decisions with regards to treating them either apologetically when they invaded countries, or seeking ways to back away from any real effective resistance to their actions in Europe/Syria/Etc.

You're repeating the same argument in a sarcasm font. Not even trying.

 

28 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Some guy that was in GWOT for a hot minute on the internet told us all so.

That's the second time today you've made a feeble attempt to diminish my service just to prop up your opinion in an internet debate. Lots of people here served in GWOT for a "hot minute" and have their own opinions derived from experience. Scoffing at anyone's service probably isn't giving you the credibility you think it does. It may even be giving others an insight into your character that you may not want exposed.

[Lawman]

That's the second time today you've made a feeble attempt to diminish my service just to prop up your opinion in an internet debate. Lots of people here served in GWOT for a "hot minute" and have their own opinions derived from experience. Scoffing at anyone's service probably isn't giving you the credibility you think it does. It may even be giving others an insight into your character that you may not want exposed.

You saw dead men loaded on the back of your plane.

Oh my god what a unique position to find yourself in. Nobody else who has done such could possibly call you out for your apologetic doublespeak of “let’s avoid conflict” and paint the current one as if we were filling coffins and draping them with US Flags. All while parroting Russian propaganda and talking points to invalidate any positions we have to support the current regime over there. You wanna classify the Maiden revolutions as some sort of US orchestrated overthrow of an elected government is a gross misrepresentation of our actions or the decade+ of that ousted governments actions that led to protests, casualties, and their parliamentary vote. And it’s nothing if not an often repeated piece of Russians disinformation widely put out to somehow justify their military backed invasion of the Donbas and Crimea.

Thank you for rowing the boat from whichever position in the canoe you did, but you are far from unique in this room. And I doubt your attempt to feature some poor dead grunt as a reason to adopt strategic foreign policy positions is anything more than the same Cindy Sheehan kind of crap she was doing when her chosen political flavor wasn’t in higher office.


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[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Lawman said:

You saw dead men loaded on the back of your plane.

Oh my god what a unique position to find yourself in.

I was a C-130E pilot at the time. There was absolutely nothing unique about my experiences, and I implied as much in the post prior. I did countless HR movements and MEDEVACs as did any other crew. This one was memorable and I'll tell you why.

1 hour ago, Lawman said:

Nobody else who has done such could possibly call you out for your apologetic doublespeak of “let’s avoid conflict” and paint the current one as if we were filling coffins and draping them with US Flags. All while parroting Russian propaganda and talking points to invalidate any positions we have to support the current regime over there. You wanna classify the Maiden revolutions as some sort of US orchestrated overthrow of an elected government is a gross misrepresentation of our actions or the decade+ of that ousted governments actions that led to protests, casualties, and their parliamentary vote. And it’s nothing if not an often repeated piece of Russians disinformation widely put out to somehow justify their military backed invasion of the Donbas and Crimea.

I don't care if you like my perspective, but I am always willing to listen to an opposing explanation. You know I've written on the matter quite a bit. You've had every opportunity to present an alternative viewpoint. Instead, all I am getting from you is "You're parroting Russian disinformation!" You may want everyone to deep throat and cradle the same government approved narrative you do, but I think it's important to continuously challenge it. I get it though... you're going to deploy soon. If you were to entertain any questions as to the validity or purpose, I suppose it would have detrimental effects. I did the same. I tried not to think about all the BS I saw because it made my deployments easier. But now that I've retired, I'm free to honestly reflect on it, in spite of your disapproval.

1 hour ago, Lawman said:

 And I doubt your attempt to feature some poor dead grunt as a reason to adopt strategic foreign policy positions is anything more than the same Cindy Sheehan kind of crap she was doing when her chosen political flavor wasn’t in higher office.

Classy. I specifically remember Matt because after the deployment, his family had written my crew a very nice letter. Turns out his brother, now General Mark "Buzz" August, was my first instructor when I arrived at my first operational unit. One of, if not the, best C-130 pilots I've ever flown with. Someone I always admired and considered a friend.

I realize the life of that  "poor dead grunt"  holds no importance in the mind of a strategic thinking stone-hearted killer like yourself, but as I plainly stated before, the threshold for conflict should be higher than it is to prevent the loss of life like his. But please, continue. The more you talk, the more you reveal.

Edited August 12, 2023 by gearhog

[Lawman]

Classy. I specifically remember Matt because after the deployment, his family had written my crew a very nice letter. Turns out his brother, now General Mark "Buzz" August, was my first instructor when I arrived at my first operational unit. One of, if not the, best C-130 pilots I've ever flown with. Someone I always admired and considered a friend.
I realize the life of that  "poor dead grunt"  holds no importance in the mind of a strategic thinking stone-hearted killer like yourself, but as I plainly stated before, the threshold for conflict should be higher than it is to prevent the loss of life like his. But please, continue. The more you talk, the more you reveal.

No see we can count the total number and frequency of those missions.

We can quantify in the long term the cost of that particular conflict in and amongst the world wide collection of historical conflicts. Same was we can do it with ammunition expended, with lives lost wearing other uniforms/flags/civilian clothes, etc. And when we are all done debating whether the cost of a particular venture was justified at the time and you can appeal to the memory of so and so, we can also step out of your anecdotal experience to others for comparison. You can get in a car and drive down what used to be Route Irish today and be safer than you would in a lot of neighborhoods in Detroit/Cleveland/DFW/Baltimore/etc. and while you’re factoring in the human cost of seeing coffins and such, why don’t you go ask somebody who had to SSE a “Rape Room” or other such regime/tool of both the state and the follow on fighters in Iraq. Try and quantify the frustration and risk/reward math from the guys that went and solved the ISIS problem after seeing a Yazidi village literally put to the sword for however many years we watched and did nothing overhead from ISR feeds. See if people on that side of the discussion feel the same apathy toward conflict.

That doesn’t minimize the specific cost to family X for the loss of person Y or prevent those people from mourning that loss. Any family touched by death feels that it’s not specific to military service. But it’s laughable to hear you bring up their stories as a warning to the risk of lives in a conflict which hasn’t happened going on 2 years now. This “We’re gonna start WWIII” argument is far older than this conflict. Some around here are old enough to remember it in the actual Cold War. And to make that argument while simultaneously implying that me and a whole lot of others we would be somehow safer from such impending doom if we stopped current efforts of non direct combat opposition to a major geopolitical foe and let them pull up to a NATO border. I’m sure this time they’ll pull out…


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[gearhog]

16 minutes ago, Lawman said:

No see we can count the total number and frequency of those missions.

We can quantify in the long term the cost of that particular conflict in and amongst the world wide collection of historical conflicts. Same was we can do it with ammunition expended, with lives lost wearing other uniforms/flags/civilian clothes, etc. And when we are all done debating whether the cost of a particular venture was justified at the time and you can appeal to the memory of so and so, we can also step out of your anecdotal experience to others for comparison.

Yes.. And? ... This is the part of your argument where you would actually do that. Just saying that a counter-point exists out there somewhere isn't actually an argument in itself. You actually have to make one.

31 minutes ago, Lawman said:

You can get in a car and drive down what used to be Route Irish today and be safer than you would in a lot of neighborhoods in Detroit/Cleveland/DFW/Baltimore/etc. a

So the way you argue that our expenditure of lives and treasue in Iraq was essential to the national interests of the US...

is to claim that the streets of Baghdad are safer than many cities in the US.  Now that's f'n brilliant. LOL

38 minutes ago, Lawman said:

 why don’t you go ask somebody who had to SSE a “Rape Room” or other such regime/tool of both the state and the follow on fighters in Iraq. Or the guys that went and solved the ISIS problem after seeing a Yazidi village literally put to the sword for however many years we watched and did nothing overhead from ISR feeds.

Lawman: "I don't like your anecdotal war stories and anecdotes aren't valid with regard to strategic policy."

Also Lawman: "Let me dispute your position with my own someone else's anecdotal war stories."

46 minutes ago, Lawman said:

That doesn’t minimize the specific cost to family X for the loss of person Y or prevent those people from mourning that loss.

You know what does? Referring to person Y as "Some Poor Dead Grunt". Ya think maybe you might have committed an unintentional human error and maybe used some language that you didn't carefully consider? It happens. Or do you stand by it?

50 minutes ago, Lawman said:

But it’s laughable to hear you bring up their stories as a warning to the risk of lives in a conflict which hasn’t happened going on 2 years now. All the while simultaneously telling me and a whole lot of others we would be somehow safer from such conflict if we stopped non combat opposition to a major geopolitical foe and let them pull up to a NATO border. I’m sure this time they’ll pull out…

So is Russia a:

A) major geopolitical threat to the United States

B) paper tiger suffereing tremendous losses at the hands of a smaller country next door

Choose one.

Grab some popcorn. Let's watch Russia pull up to the NATO border in this time lapse video.

https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1687012096246943744?s=20

[Lawman]

So is Russia a:
A) major geopolitical threat to the United States
B) paper tiger suffereing tremendous losses at the hands of a smaller country next door
Choose one.
Grab some popcorn. Let's watch Russia pull up to the NATO border in this time lapse video.
https://twitter.com/Sprinter99800/status/1687012096246943744?s=20

Look we can simply step over to you and others repeated attempts to pass off Russian talking points as viable discussion and then claim “the middle ground,” to your approach.

I could really care less if you or the bitter old veterans club experienced real or imagined encounters over there. If you were so afllicted personally by the impact of what you saw first hand, go get some help for it. Don’t pass off your experience as some sort of ruling none of it was worth it, plenty of us who were there or saw worse would have a different opinion that you aren’t speaking to. I was physically in Iraq in the last 5 years. And I and others are physically on the line any future fight against Russia which looks less and less likely every day since we (as a unified block of western nations) allowed and reinforced in Ukraine the means to effectively defend its self. Can you say the same?

And yes listening to you shout the names of the fallen as some sort of reinforcement to back away from helping Ukraine when it completely aligns with our foreign policy and security interests is little more than cheerleading a cause on the backs of the dead. You aren’t doing it to somehow honor that memory. And all the while you peddle their (Russia’s) Reddit quality justifications to why they aren’t the aggressor making you a stooge to a Russian Disinformation campaign built to do exactly that.


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[gearhog]

5 hours ago, Lawman said:

I could really care less if you or the bitter old veterans club experienced real or imagined encounters over there.

 

Are you autistic? It should be apparent by now that I’ve formed a hypothesis about your character and I would like for you to prove it by openly saying something dumb. It’s amazing that you would continue to do just that. Zero self-awareness.
 

Thanks for the reply. I’ll give you a full response later today and yet another opportunity to, once again, denigrate the service of not me, but other fellow vets. 

[Boomer6]

[Lawman]

Are you autistic? It should be apparent by now that I’ve formed a hypothesis about your character and I would like for you to prove it by openly saying something dumb. It’s amazing that you would continue to do just that. Zero self-awareness.
 
Thanks for the reply. I’ll give you a full response later today and yet another opportunity to, once again, denigrate the service of not me, but other fellow vets. 

In what world would anybody care about the opinion of a guy who is now trading off his years and experiences of service as currency in order to shill Russian troll farm talking points on a forum full of professional, former, and prospective military aviators.

You aren’t continuously challenging the narrative or whatever high minded foolishness you think you’re doing. By making open statements like we backed a Coup you are repeating a Russian approved government backed disinformation campaign while shouting about “doing your own research” or some other nonsense. Those claims literally came out of the GRU playbook starting on RT and Sputnik. And for those that think this isn’t an active move on the chess board by the Russians (but also others) and you don’t have access to the “deep throat intel narrative” well here is open source reporting as such https://www.csis.org/analysis/why-kremlin-targets-veterans

Again thank you for rowing the boat, but you may as well go throw your medals over onto the White House lawn in frustration because you are being used, and not by the people you claim we need to stop and examine.


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[gearhog]

4 hours ago, Lawman said:

In what world would anybody care about the opinion of a guy who is now trading off his years and experiences of service as currency in order to shill Russian troll farm talking points on a forum full of professional, former, and prospective military aviators.

You aren’t continuously challenging the narrative or whatever high minded foolishness you think you’re doing. By making open statements like we backed a Coup you are repeating a Russian approved government backed disinformation campaign while shouting about “doing your own research” or some other nonsense. Those claims literally came out of the GRU playbook starting on RT and Sputnik. And for those that think this isn’t an active move on the chess board by the Russians (but also others) and you don’t have access to the “deep throat intel narrative” well here is open source reporting as such https://www.csis.org/analysis/why-kremlin-targets-veterans

Again thank you for rowing the boat, but you may as well go throw your medals over onto the White House lawn in frustration because you are being used, and not by the people you claim we need to stop and examine.
 

Apparently the one you're in because... here you are, J. Edgar. 😆 High on McCarthyism, in high heels, with your panties in a twist and seeing Red agents everywhere. Funny that a critique of US government foreign policy triggers your paranoid delusions of the critic being a Russian sympathizer. I'll give you credit, though. You did say that history repeats itself.

In your lunacy, you believe that I've been brainwashed by Sputnik and "the GRU" and targeted by the Kremlin. Insane. It's the same sort of wack-job idiocy that justifies unfounded witch hunts, hearings, investigations, and interrogations. You don't answer any legitimate questions, just act all indignant and call it disinformation. You're supremely qualified to be the next Rachael Maddow.

I've already told you, multiple times, I want Russia to fail. Putin can eat shit. He shouldn't have invaded. But I'm not Russian, I don't speak Russian, I don't know any Russians. My critques, nor yours, of Russia matters in the least. What I do know for a fact, is the leadership of the country that I do live in, are also shitbags attempting to ruin a great nation. My opinion of the US matters more than my opinion of Russia. Do you actually think once we defeat Russia, the people you've supported will relinquish the power you've given them, and we'll live in peace, harmony, freedom and democracy? The current system relies on the expansion of power and resources to survive and is no less corrupt than anywhere else.

How have you not noticed that your attention is continuously directed toward boogeymen while your freedoms continue to be eroded and the quality of life of the average American continues to be diminished. Gullible and Naive. That's how.

 

 

[BashiChuni]

the ukranian jock sniffers have simply moved on from their covid "if you criticize the EXPERTS you want grandma to DIE" troupe.

just easily manipulated sheep who will always champion the next "it" movement. whatever the media brainwashes them to support

[gearhog]

20 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

the ukranian jock sniffers have simply moved on from their covid "if you criticize the EXPERTS you want grandma to DIE" troupe.

just easily manipulated sheep who will always champion the next "it" movement. whatever the media brainwashes them to support

Huh.

You know... you got me to wondering.

Surprise! LOLOL

On 2/12/2021 at 12:25 PM, Lawman said:

Speaking of vaccines...

I’d advise anybody getting the series to deliberately plan the backside of those shots to not be busy.

1st shot didn’t do much, just a little muscle stiffness in my arm/neck which meant a poor nights sleep and a touch of hangover...

2nd shot put me solidly on my ass 6 hours after getting it, basically it’s the 24-36 hour flu without the nausea/vomiting.

Needless to say if you told your wife you were gonna paint the bathroom that weekend or something, think about maybe putting something else on the schedule.


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[BashiChuni]

and when ukraine is losing you won't hear a fucking PEEP from the MSM or any of these other shills

much like the crumbling COVID narrative, these cowards will quickly move onto the next "outrage" they're being propagandized to support.

they'll put the "I SUPPORT CAUSE X" facebook banner as their temporary facebook picture, fly whatever flag in their window, and brow beat ANYONE who questions the narrative.

 

such a simple minded existence

[BashiChuni]

found another fish! notice how the playbook is always the same. it's always "russian propaganda"

and questioning public health measures is AGAINST THE RULES! how dare you. cue greta.

[BashiChuni]

it is interesting that the same COVID extremists who are being proven so wrong about everything they were screaming about are the same people demanding we support ukraine without question to the cost, strategy, or benefit to America.

 

you'd think that after being exposed as frauds one would self reflect and gain more humility about ones extreme positions. but NOPE! like good drones they are doubling down. anyone who questions the money, equipment, and support given to ukraine is pro russia and pro putin full stop.

much like the COVID receipts we will have the ukraine receipts. and we were right about covid...i think we will be proven correct about ukraine.

[Boomer6]

Maybe we should create a separate thread for covid and Ukraine…🤔

[gearhog]

5 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

Maybe we should create a separate thread for covid and Ukraine…🤔

Agreed. I'll apologize on behalf of Lawman for his derailment of the thread. 😄

[Lawman]

Agreed. I'll apologize on behalf of Lawman for his derailment of the thread.

You and Bashi could just go find a room to stroke each other in and save us all a lot of time.


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[gearhog]

3 minutes ago, Lawman said:

You and Bashi could just go find a room to stroke each other in and save us all a lot of time.


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Weak. Quitter. 😄