New SOS in-correspondence

[ram02]

Source?

https://www.afgsc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123401166

[Butters]

He didn't really make a lot of sense.

For intermediate service school, or senior service school, don't take it by correspondence. In fact we're going to keep you from taking it by correspondence. Just wait and get it done when you go.

What if you don't get to go? A 6-9 week SOS course is one thing, year long IDE/SDE is another.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Butters

[nsplayr]

Kinda want to print this out and leave it on my WG/CC's desk somehow...definitely living under the unofficial but "official" practice-bleeding policy among other dumbness that the Chief has specifically spoken out against or acted on.

[FBomb]

He didn't really make a lot of sense.

For intermediate service school, or senior service school, don't take it by correspondence. In fact we're going to keep you from taking it by correspondence. Just wait and get it done when you go.

What if you don't get to go? A 6-9 week SOS course is one thing, year long IDE/SDE is another.

[Butters]

That sounds right, but it is not what he said. Or he was quoted poorly by the media..... That could never happen.

The trick is make to PME PME, regardless of method of completion.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Butters

[olevelo]

I think what he's saying is you either go in residence or not at all. As in far less folks will complete IDE/SDE.

[Butters]

So, then the part he left out was... what happens to the ones that do not complete it? Everyone can't go to a year long course. Maybe this is a new force shapping tool? Who knows.

[hispeed7721]

So, then the part he left out was... what happens to the ones that do not complete it? Everyone can't go to a year long course. Maybe this is a new force shapping tool? Who knows.

Isn't that what correspondence is for? I understood him to mean you only do correspondence if you aren't able to go in residence.

Please correct me if I'm way off target

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[ThreeHoler]

For intermediate service school, or senior service school, don't take it by correspondence. In fact we're going to keep you from taking it by correspondence. Just wait and get it done when you go. You'll get a master's degree at the same time. Quit double dipping on everything.

I think the bold part is the key. You will know by the time your IPZ board rolls around if you've attended IDE/SDE. So, don't do it in correspondence until after you've had your looks.

[Butters]

Isn't that what correspondence is for? I understood him to mean you only do correspondence if you aren't able to go in residence.

Please correct me if I'm way off target

Honestly, I do not know if you are off target. If you take his quote literaly he says "For intermediate service school, or senior service school, don't take it by correspondence. In fact we're going to keep you from taking it by correspondence."

That is why I think the article took that out of context. Doubt they could get rid of it completely. I think he was only talking about guys that were slated to go.

[Champ Kind]

I'm confused.

[Butters]

Me too. It is fuck this shit o'clock for me!

[czecksikhs]

And free pizza on Fridays and no more homework.

[Fifty-six & Two]

I think the bold part is the key. You will know by the time your IPZ board rolls around if you've attended IDE/SDE. So, don't do it in correspondence until after you've had your looks.

This actually makes sense if it works out this way. The third look for IDE is the same year that the 2 BPZ for O-5 meets. If a person doesn't get picked up in their third look for school, then they have a year and a half to knock out IDE before their IPZ board. If they legitimately don't allow people to enroll in correspondence it until after their third look, it will be reliant upon job performance to get them to school. Enough of this "Even though you are a select, you need to knock out IDE in correspondence in order to attend in residence." So sick of the current mindset of some leadership.

I would love to see this actually come into play, but I think the biggest problem is going to be changing the mindset of those in charge. Big Blue is a machine that just keeps churning along and it is difficult to change it's course. People get stuck in this "I had to do it in correspondence in order to attend in residence", or "Well, that is the way we've always done it." Hopefully he can get this right.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Fifty-six & Two

[pcola]

No double dipping PME is a great initiative, and an idea that I'm sure we've all had. It definitely passes the common sense check. But, there has to be a better way of doing it than saying you can't knock out correspondence until after your 3rd look. Especially now that the trend is that no candidates are going in-res. OK - if you are a select, you are ineligible for correspondence - done. Makes perfect sense. Candidates, though, should still be allowed to accomplish as their schedule fits. Personal story: I have 0 (zero!) desire to spend a year of my remaining 6 at Maxwell or any other non-flying gig. I don't want to go in-res, but I'd like to make O-5. Given that, I know that correspondence is a requirement for me. But I want to do it on my own terms/timeline. I like the idea that I have several years to get it done (shit, I've already been enrolled for more than a year and have only done 4/12 "classes") and I wouldn't want to have to wait until after third look non-select to get started, when we all know I'm not going to school. I can't be the only one...

Like I said, great initiative, but there has to be a better way to execute.

[Fifty-six & Two]

No double dipping PME is a great initiative, and an idea that I'm sure we've all had. It definitely passes the common sense check. But, there has to be a better way of doing it than saying you can't knock out correspondence until after your 3rd look. Especially now that the trend is that no candidates are going in-res. OK - if you are a select, you are ineligible for correspondence - done. Makes perfect sense. Candidates, though, should still be allowed to accomplish as their schedule fits. Personal story: I have 0 (zero!) desire to spend a year of my remaining 6 at Maxwell or any other non-flying gig. I don't want to go in-res, but I'd like to make O-5. Given that, I know that correspondence is a requirement for me. But I want to do it on my own terms/timeline. I like the idea that I have several years to get it done (shit, I've already been enrolled for more than a year and have only done 4/12 "classes") and I wouldn't want to have to wait until after third look non-select to get started, when we all know I'm not going to school. I can't be the only one...

Like I said, great initiative, but there has to be a better way to execute.

I hope you haven't already pinned on Major. What kind of example are you setting not having it done by now? /sarcasm

On a serious note, hopefully the 1 candidate per DT was an anomaly last year. Agree that if it is going to stay that way for the near future, then maybe candidates should be the only ones allowed to enroll upon release of the promotion results. The time limit for the new ACSC in-correspondence is 5 years, correct? Like you said, it allows you to work on it at your own pace and get it done before the IPZ board since you know there is no real chance of going in-residence.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Fifty-six & Two

[pawnman]

I hope you haven't already pinned on Major. What kind of example are you setting not having it done by now? /sarcasm

On a serious note, hopefully the 1 candidate per DT was an anomaly last year. Agree that if it is going to stay that way for the near future, then maybe candidates should be the only ones allowed to enroll upon release of the promotion results. The time limit for the new ACSC in-correspondence is 5 years, correct? Like you said, it allows you to work on it at your own pace and get it done before the IPZ board since you know there is no real chance of going in-residence.

Well, it's not like the budget constraints have improved any.

Besides, if I can't work on ACSC, what else will I use for those "personal improvement" bullets on the 1206s?

[ThreeHoler]

No double dipping PME is a great initiative, and an idea that I'm sure we've all had. It definitely passes the common sense check. But, there has to be a better way of doing it than saying you can't knock out correspondence until after your 3rd look. Especially now that the trend is that no candidates are going in-res. OK - if you are a select, you are ineligible for correspondence - done. Makes perfect sense. Candidates, though, should still be allowed to accomplish as their schedule fits. Personal story: I have 0 (zero!) desire to spend a year of my remaining 6 at Maxwell or any other non-flying gig. I don't want to go in-res, but I'd like to make O-5. Given that, I know that correspondence is a requirement for me. But I want to do it on my own terms/timeline. I like the idea that I have several years to get it done (shit, I've already been enrolled for more than a year and have only done 4/12 "classes") and I wouldn't want to have to wait until after third look non-select to get started, when we all know I'm not going to school. I can't be the only one...

Like I said, great initiative, but there has to be a better way to execute.

You do know that the current "expectation" is that if you haven't completed it within a year of O-4 pin-on, you are "sending a message to the board," right?

It still makes perfect sense even with only a few candidates going...but it does require "expectation management" on the part of SR/board members. The bottom line is to be promoted or selected for school on merit, not box checking.

[pcola]

You do know that the current "expectation" is that if you haven't completed it within a year of O-4 pin-on, you are "sending a message to the board," right?

Yes, I've heard as much...

[ziploc158]

I was also told that I would make captain during the promotion board even though I only had 2 training reports to my name and being in the MAF for only four months before the board met. Imagine my surprise when I was in Afghanistan and found out I got passed over. Until I see this I am going to keep working on correspondence until I am told to stop or see this in a regulation somewhere and not from the some source being a poorly quoted Air Force News article

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[Liquid]

CSAF said at AFA, and told the MAJCOM CCs Corona South, SOS in residence will be the norm. If you can't go due to ops deferments, etc you will be required to complete the correspondence course. He said you will be allowed to complete SOS in correspondence if you can't go in residence. He also said you will not be allowed to do IDE in correspondence and residence. If you are a select, you will be blocked from enrolling in correspondence. He did not address the issue of candidates completing correspondence in order to be competitive for residence. I clearly understood his intent that appropriate PME, either residence or correspondence, was required for promotion to Maj, Lt Col and Col. I have heard no discussion about delaying PME until the last look. I assume early (but within eligibility window) completion will be more favorable than completion at the very end of the window, but I have not seen the specifics. Bottom line, get your PME done I you want to get promoted.

AAD is not required now (his words), but CSAF said he will put out policy to keep boards and senior raters from considering AAD for promotion prior to the Col board. He said AAD was personal development and should not be considered for professional development or advancement. He said you can get one prior to the Col board during IDE, either in residence or correspondence, or get one on your own. He said job performance should be the most important factor in promotions. Hopefully he will put out the policy soon, we have been talking about it for long enough.

[Jughead]

CSAF said [...] SOS in residence will be the norm. If you can't go due to ops deferments, etc you will be required to complete the correspondence course. He said you will be allowed to complete SOS in correspondence if you can't go in residence.

Maybe it's all that acid I dropped back in the 60s (no offense, Huggy), but that sounds remarkably similar to what we then-young captains were told ca. 1995. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure how that worked out....

I hope this sticks. I'm not holding my breath. My advice to any young CGO is to take it with a grain of salt until there's some hard evidence that it's truly the new normal.

[SurelySerious]

CSAF said he will put out policy to keep boards and senior raters from considering AAD for promotion prior to the Col board.

One of the big points they have pitched on this is that PME above SOS will be accredited for a Masters (distance and residence), so if you complete the appropriate PME, your degree requirement will be fulfilled.

[Tnkr]

CSAF said...AAD is not required now (his words), but CSAF said he will put out policy to keep boards and senior raters from considering AAD for promotion prior to the Col board.

The problem won't be directing the boards to not consider AAD. The problem is that your Sq/CC to Wg/CC will know your AAD status and you can expect to be racked and stacked accordingly. Since 90% of OPRs look the same, there are only a few ways to determine who gets the number one strat. Until we find a way to get supervisors to give honest and critical feedback then board instructions will not matter. Seems to me that most CCs would rather write OPRs using the secret decoder ring and let the boards act as the anonymous bad guy than deliver the news personally that a member isn't making the cut.

[Goblin]

^this

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