flynutt Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Sorry for the long first post from a long time lurker, but I am in need of some advice. I am separating from active duty as a Major with close to 14 years of service. I have a couple full-time job offers in the Guard/Reserve, and I am having a difficult time making a decision. I have researched a lot on AGR vs ART and feel I am well-versed in the pros and cons of each. As for the offers, the first option is an ANG AGR position that is supposedly a flying position, but remains to be seen if I will actually do any flying due to needed requals or interfly agreements. The second option is an AFRES ART position that will indeed be flying. Both jobs are in the same area, but I am not sure if it is an area I want to settle in for the long term. I do not have a clear goal in mind of what I want to be when I grow up, but I would like to remain in the aviation field in some capacity. Undecided if I want to chase the airlines. I also have a young family to support. I realize the decision is mine to make, but I like to bounce it off of others to hear their opinions on the matter. Just curious what would you do if you were in the same position?
jcollins Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 The only people I know who would choose ART in your scenario are those who want to stick around in the program until age 57 for that guaranteed stability and paycheck. However I think stability in the Guard/Reserves went out the door in 2005. YMMV, but I think most folks here would tell you to a take the AGR.
Danny Noonin Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 ART makes sense of you want to stay there long term, fly military long term, be somebody in the reserves (i.e. command a wing or become or O-7+) and/or transition to GS someday after you retire from the mil side. If you think airlines might be in the cards, then being current will be a big deal, which sounds like its questionable for the AGR. Other than that, I'm a big fan of AGR over ART. If you get to 20, you can retire with pension and then move to wherever you want and start a new career while young enough to do so successfully while having an income "cushion" since its tough to make what military officers make straight out of the chute in a civilian job. Being an ART--in my opinion--gives you far less flexibility overall. Many would argue with me though. There is a lot of ART propaganda out here that shows how you can make much more money in retirement as an ART but it requires you to retire as a GS so if your next career is not GS that math goes out the window. Good luck with the decision.
Champ Kind Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) Take the ART and then shoot me a PM with the AGR job/location and a contact number for them! Seriously though, congrats and good luck. What a great decision to have to make. Edited December 29, 2013 by Champ Kind
lloyd christmas Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 Little Rock? The Guard has a future here. The Reserves keep changing direction...
EvilEagle Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 I took the AGR when I had the same offers. Glad I did.
Learjetter Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 I'll play "bad" guy: serve six more years, collect $3M+ in retainer pay + some medical over the next 40 years, with a percentage to your spouse if you die first (SSB). Pretty good return on one or two more assignments...and if you get promoted, make it closer to $4M... Whatever you choose, good luck and Godspeed!
Danny Noonin Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 I'll play "bad" guy: serve six more years, collect $3M+ in retainer pay + some medical over the next 40 years, with a percentage to your spouse if you die first (SSB). Pretty good return on one or two more assignments...and if you get promoted, make it closer to $4M... So... You vote AGR? 1
SocialD Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 (edited) I'll play "bad" guy: serve six more years, collect $3M+ in retainer pay + some medical over the next 40 years, with a percentage to your spouse if you die first (SSB). Pretty good return on one or two more assignments...and if you get promoted, make it closer to $4M... Whatever you choose, good luck and Godspeed!As Danny said, you pick AGR. Just add....not move if you don't want, no non-voluntary 365s, heck no non-vul deployments (unless they start activating us), no masters requirement, no in-correspondence prior to in-residence, etc... Edited December 29, 2013 by SocialD 1
JS Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 As Danny said, you pick AGR. Just add....not move if you don't want, no non-voluntary 365s, heck no non-vul deployments (unless they start activating us), no masters requirement, no in-correspondence prior to in-residence, etc... Yup, what used to be be, prior to SocialD letting the cat out of the bag with this post, the best kept secret in the Guard/Reserve.
Marco Posted December 29, 2013 Posted December 29, 2013 When I was AGR, I was offered a technician job three times, no bid- just move over. Three times I was told...."Just so you know, there's no guarantee for continued funding. Being a technician offers stability and job security." I respectfully declined each time. Now I'm just a Dumb Shit Guardsman, but that's by my own choice. YMMV, but if they are offering AGR, I would jump on it like Miley Cyrus on a wrecking ball vs. being a technician.
flynutt Posted December 29, 2013 Author Posted December 29, 2013 Thanks for all the help. AGR is what I was thinking but my biggest reservation with that offer is the uncertainty of flying. With no real strong desire for the airlines, not flying but still being able to retire in ~6 years and move on to something else does sound pretty good.
hindsight2020 Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) As Danny said, you pick AGR. Just add....not move if you don't want, no non-voluntary 365s, heck no non-vul deployments (unless they start activating us), no masters requirement, no in-correspondence prior to in-residence, etc... Things are changing on that front I'm afraid... When I was AGR, I was offered a technician job three times, no bid- just move over. Three times I was told...."Just so you know, there's no guarantee for continued funding. Being a technician offers stability and job security." I respectfully declined each time. Now I'm just a Dumb Shit Guardsman, but that's by my own choice. YMMV, but if they are offering AGR, I would jump on it like Miley Cyrus on a wrecking ball vs. being a technician. The ART conversions continue to be the flavor of the decade for AFRC and though we've escaped the conversion implementation so far, I can't in good conscience assume that a newhire AGR will ever see the other side of the 20 year tunnel. This info for training use only, not to be used for navigation.... Edited December 30, 2013 by hindsight2020
Marco Posted December 30, 2013 Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) That's what I've heard. I'm ANG and all our Temp AGR's whom had their orders tied to ASA got converted over to full-time AGR (permanent party? I'm not sure of the terminology as I was already making plans to resign my AGR spot when they converted me, so I didn't pay attention). I know it had to do with the change in funding etc and ASA turning to ACA. ETA: the tech conversion offers were obviously before the ACA change that happened this year when the trend was still AGR is no sure thing. Which dependent upon your unit may still be the case. Good luck! Edited December 30, 2013 by Marco
skibum Posted December 31, 2013 Posted December 31, 2013 One thing I don't see mentioned but you should consider is the AGR term. It used to be automatic that an ANG AGR job would continue, to include promotion to Lt Col, allowing you to retire. That's not necessarily the case anymore. Depending on the job (doesn't sound like a unit position) you may find yourself with just under 18 years of service at a major and no continuation to retirement. If it were a unit position the wing would likely find a way to take care of you. If it's a state HQ or T10 you could get screwed by future position availability. Be careful.
SocialD Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Yup, what used to be be, prior to SocialD letting the cat out of the bag with this post, the best kept secret in the Guard/Reserve. Ha, that cat has been out of bag for years...as evidenced by the high amount of AD guys rushing the squadron wanting an AGR job. Things are changing on that front I'm afraid... I know all too well things are changing, but is this a Reserve thing? I have yet to hear any rumblings about needing a masters or in-residence (unless you want to go places...stars). My post should have just said no in-residence at all. I think the last guy we sent in-res was in 2004 and that's because he wanted the orders, and he did not do SOS in correspondence prior to going. If they want the full timers to get a masters they had better start providing some Tuition Assistance. You can forget it as far as part timers are concerned.
hindsight2020 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) Ha, that cat has been out of bag for years...as evidenced by the high amount of AD guys rushing the squadron wanting an AGR job. That certainly a change during my tenure. When I was a FNG civilian outsider the proposition of anyone AD rolling into an AGR without doing a solid stint as a TR first would get them laughed out the building. I suppose those dynamics would always be normalcy for a unit that has trouble keeping folks around (for another thread)... I know all too well things are changing, but is this a Reserve thing? I have yet to hear any rumblings about needing a masters or in-residence (unless you want to go places...stars). My post should have just said no in-residence at all. I think the last guy we sent in-res was in 2004 and that's because he wanted the orders, and he did not do SOS in correspondence prior to going. If they want the full timers to get a masters they had better start providing some Tuition Assistance. You can forget it as far as part timers are concerned. I haven't looked into it since I happened to be Master's complete before I ever joined the military in any capacity (trust me, getting that master's had NOTHING to do with military promotability, that was one random happenstance) but I think AGRs get TA. ARTs I don't think do, but ARTs get promoted like TRs, for that is what they fundamentally are on the mil side of their billet. Meaning they probably don't need it versus AGRs. I cringe to think what discriminators are going to look like for TRs in the next five years for O-5. ETA: and yes, this is all recent AD Lite (AFRC) faggotry I speak for. I have no idea how the Bureau of "you burned all your IDT, see ya next year.....yes I know it's June" aka the Guard, works as of late regarding these matters. Edited January 1, 2014 by hindsight2020
herkbum Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 I was promised 20 yrs and 1 day, anything beyond that is on me to find a position. Especially with no O-6 AGR position on the base. It is more or less up and out. Can't sit around as a Lt Col technician for 10 or 15 yrs (know a couple that have been a Lt Col as long as I have been in the squadron). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vertigo Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) AGR - I just had my position MCR'd from Tech to AGR and I don't regret it. There was no way I would ever had made it to a techician retirement with my years of service when I took the job, but now that I'm AGR I only have to do 5 short years and I'm good Edited January 2, 2014 by Vertigo
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