Time to abolish the Air Force?

[Majestik Møøse]

If there were only other bases that had tankers and if the CAOC had checked the forecast for UAFM that day and changed their boom lineup....

Pretty sure there was a KC-10 or 2 in with an extra 60-90K to give in RC-East!

[Clark Griswold]

Return to course...

Another screed from Mr. Farley... https://medium.com/war-is-boring/1a7733c66b52

Not that you should judge someone before you meet them but looking at his bio, he appears to have no real experience actually in the military, seems like a cheerleader/groupie. To have an iota of legitimacy on advocating for a MASSIVE shift in the Defense structure of the US, you have to have some real world experience. Reading a lot of Stephen Ambrose books does not count. Serving in some capacity, at a significant level to see the nuances, the strengths and the weaknesses of the culture and outlook of each of the branches is just a requirement.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[FallingOsh]

In the event the Air Force is abolished, 11F is exempt and will report to work on Monday.

[Homestar]

I got no problem with thinking big, just don't go giving this guy the keys to the bus.

[HerkPerfMan]

Mr. Farley has a book coming out about abolishing the Air Force. Shocking.

It's called "Grounded," and you can go argue with him about it on March 15.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/9d5bc01f0602

[Right Seat Driver]

Mr. Farley has a book coming out about abolishing the Air Force. Shocking.

It's called "Grounded," and you can go argue with him about it on March 15.

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/9d5bc01f0602

I can't believe this is still being discussed. I only read 6-9 lines of the link, but he mentions "Air Force planners helped develop Rolling Thunder, a bombing campaign designed to force Hanoi out of the war. The campaign wreaked significant destruction on North Vietnamese economy and society but failed to budge Hanoi’s leadership."

Pretty sure Rolling Thunder's success wasn't tied to the USAF's planning or execution.

Edited: In order to ward off the grammar police

Edited March 10, 2014 by Right Seat Driver

[albertschu]

I can't believe this is still being discussed. I only read 6-9 lines of the link, but he mentions "Air Force planners helped develop Rolling Thunder, a bombing campaign designed to force Hanoi out of the war. The campaign wreaked significant destruction on North Vietnamese economy and society but failed to budge Hanoi’s leadership."

Pretty sure Rolling Thunder's success wasn't tied to the USAF's planning or execution.

Edited: In order to ward off the grammar police

Using that logic, we should also abolish the Marine Corps because of Beirut.

[busdriver]

Daylight precision bombing failed in WW2, therefore the USAF is irrelevant. Questions? No I didn't think so.

[Bob]

Amazon has a customer review feature

[Clark Griswold]

Another article from the USAF's #1 fan:

No, F-22's Can't Save Ukraine

22's by themselves would not be enough, but combined with a decent Combined Arms force (Typhoons from the Euros, Patriots & Armor from US/UK/Poles, etc..) might give pause to the Ruskies...

[raimius]

If Putin knew we deployed forces as a political/social "tripwire," I think he would be likely to back off.

That said, we won't. We don't want a military confrontation over Ukraine, and deploying any American forces would increase the risk of military escalation.

...my opinion. Worth what you paid for it.

[Kaman]

The problem is the Air Force has moved into a fiscally and politically environment with the same dogma that has always plagued it..."Bigger, Faster, Higher, Technologically superior, Next-generation, etc...When you put yourself in the position where you have a massive amount of spending and infrastructure to support 21 airplanes like the B-2 for example...You have a serious problem moving forward...This goes for the F-22, F-35 too...These airplanes are amazing, but we need to have an Air Force that NEEDS airframes, not a small fleet of expensive "silver bullets"...Just an observation from the lower deck...

Edited April 2, 2014 by Kaman

[Clark Griswold]

The problem is the Air Force has moved into a fiscally and politically environment with the same dogma that has always plagued it..."Bigger, Faster, Higher, Technologically superior, Next-generation, etc...When you put yourself in the position where you have a massive amount of spending and infrastructure to support 21 airplanes like the B-2 for example...You have a serious problem moving forward...This goes for the F-22, F-35 too...These airplanes are amazing, but we need to have an Air Force that NEEDS airframes, not a small fleet of expensive "silver bullets"...Just an observation from the lower deck...

2

Reading "Boyd" right now and the Mad Major was fighting the good fight for this long ago, we need someone there now (HHQ levels) who believes in the quality with quantity mantra also...

[HoHum]

2

Reading "Boyd" right now and the Mad Major was fighting the good fight for this long ago, we need someone there now (HHQ levels) who believes in the quality with quantity mantra also...

Air University turned OODA into an 8-step process. He's gotta be spinning in his grave.

//derail end//

Edited April 4, 2014 by VSP or 365

[disgruntledemployee]

Air University turned OODA into an 8-step process. He's gotta be spinning in his grave.

//derail end//

I believe the second "O" now stands for "over react."

Out

[SurelySerious]

Air University turned OODA into an 8-step process. He's gotta be spinning in his grave.

//derail end//

8 steps, with 8 steps at each major step and 3 techniques for each minor step. So it's really about 200 steps. Efficiency.

[Clark Griswold]

8 steps, with 8 steps at each major step and 3 techniques for each minor step. So it's really about 200 steps. Efficiency.

Air University turned OODA into an 8-step process. He's gotta be spinning in his grave.

//derail end//

Yup, that checks...

[Clark Griswold]

Return to course... more from Mr. Farley.

https://thediplomat.com/2014/04/air-forces-and-asia-interview-with-robert-farley/

[BuddhaSixFour]

8 steps, with 8 steps at each major step and 3 techniques for each minor step. So it's really about 200 steps. Efficiency.

But those 200 extra steps represent at least 80 ACSC and AWC papers creating such a rats nest of pseudo-academic citation loops that everyone involved is clearly a better leader for having participated in the process. Remember, wars are won through a detailed understanding of the AU Style Guide... That and a cursory understanding of Clausewitz.

Edited April 5, 2014 by BuddhaSixFour

[Majestik Møøse]

That and a cursory understanding of Clausewitz.

Unfortunately, the most easily understood principle, "mass", hasn't made it into enough papers to be in the acquisitions checklist.

[Clark Griswold]

Unfortunately, the most easily understood principle, "mass", hasn't made it into enough papers to be in the acquisitions checklist.

Mass only in terms of massively over-priced

USAF General: 'Of Course' Bomber Will Be More Than $550M Per Copy

[busdriver]

With a cost of around 200M for the new tanker, does this come as a surprise?

[SurelySerious]

With a cost of around 200M for the new tanker, does this come as a surprise?

Yep, when a large airliner lists at that kind of price, what do we expect for a stealthy bomber with mission systems?

Edit: no super cruise according to Wikipedia. And it's always right.

Edited April 7, 2014 by SurelySerious

[Clark Griswold]

Not surprised about the cost but the idea that it will actually get funded at $550 mil a copy is surprising. Given the financial realities, that is just a bridge too far and I doubt Congress or anyone else believes that it will actually stay at $550 mil a copy, some new requirement will come up and the gold plating begins.

Not opposed to us having nice things but we've got to break the habit of bending the budget around the next superstar while everything else gets screwed, the B-1 did this in the 70's and the F-22 did this in the 90's to 00's and the F-35 is currently shredding our budget and credibility to run our own affairs, hence the original theme of this thread, serious attack on the existence of the AF as an independent branch. This would either not be happening or have no credibility given to it if we had been able to get our projects on time and budget (Congressional and Contractor meddling not withstanding).

[Lawman]

I don't think you've got to much to worry about being the only service sitting in front of congress looking foolish when it comes to acquisitions.

Everybody has their big pile of fail to fall on. Navy has the LCS debacle. Army has ######ed up Comanche and the future ground combat vehicle not to mention Crusader. Marines have the expeditionary fighting vehicle and it's gonna take 30 years to pay off the Osprey Karma no matter how well the thing performs now.

We as a military are ######ed when it comes to getting new stuff, just uniforms are a bridge too far now days. Billion dollar development programs are just a bigger circus of fail.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Lawman