Return of Friday shirts / patches

[Fuzz]

CSAF just empowered Wing Commanders to use judgement in situations that are usually standardized at HAF, MAJCOM or NAF levels. I respect him for empowering subordinate commanders, but I suspect we will see a wide variety of "fun" approved for wear on our uniforms.

What advice would you give Wing Commanders on approving morale patches? Should there be reasonable limits on what we allow on our uniforms? Should it be acceptable to allow patches with sports teams, KCCO, Infidel, Honey Badger, sexual innuendos, playboy silhouette, etc? Who should decide what is acceptable or not and how should they enforce the standard?

The AF managed to function for decades with morale patches, tabs, and friday shirts, till someone decided to make it a big deal. I don't know about you but the pictures of AF pilots that I remember from growing up were people like chuck yeager and the like in his friday shirt and scarf with morale and pen tab patches, not the pictures of guys in the CBTs with ever zipper and patch absolutely perfect (C-17 guys know what I'm talking about).

How about treat us like adults, give us guidelines and deal with those that do stupid things on an individual basis. Personal suggestions, given todays climate nothing overtly sexual like the playboy silhoutte and nothing with actual cuss words (spelled out not acronyms like NKAWTG, FNG ect.), other than that wear whatever you darn well feel like.

[Striper_WSO]

Not really in bad taste IMO.

Oskee Wow-Wow

[ElLoco]

My SQ/CC was waiting for me when I got back from the meeting with a nasty email from the WG/CC in hand. I got chewed out and the LOC.

Standard...the old fire off an email to the dude's commander technique vs get a sack and address your grievance in person (however ridiculous it may be)....Air Force CBT trained...where do we find such fine young men...

[Rusty Pipes]

So let me get this straight… Still waiting on a "vector" from the CSAF, just got told on the Friday before Christmas that you might get a pink slip with an offer to apply for VSP/TERA where everyone had to show their cards to their boss only to have an 11th hour "just kidding" message come out from A1 and your future pensions were just compromised to ensure we can get more sub-par F-35s that we don't really need to the absolute silence of every General Officer… and we are on page 3 celebrating colored t-shirts and "fun meter" patches?!? Looks like Big Blue won this round… pretty sad.

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

Not really in bad taste IMO.

This is "hostile and abusive," knock it off.

[RTB]

So let me get this straight… Still waiting on a "vector" from the CSAF, just got told on the Friday before Christmas that you might get a pink slip with an offer to apply for VSP/TERA where everyone had to show their cards to their boss only to have an 11th hour "just kidding" message come out from A1 and your future pensions were just compromised to ensure we can get more sub-par F-35s that we don't really need to the absolute silence of every General Officer… and we are on page 3 celebrating colored t-shirts and "fun meter" patches?!? Looks like Big Blue won this round… pretty sad.

Damn dude, glass half empty? Why is this "vector" so important to everyone? Actions not words right?

[snoopyeast]

Not really in bad taste IMO.

LOL, isn't that the exact same thing that is painted on the tail of your jets?

The more I think about, that LOC was probably for having a crappy football team and a bipolar basketball team.

KAAAAAMS!

[Rusty Pipes]

Damn dude, glass half empty? Why is this "vector" so important to everyone? Actions not words right?

Hey, I'm glad that this stupidity is being corrected, but it never should have happened in the first place… and now we are supposed to feel grateful for just a little less queep? Sorry, but when my pension was just cut by over $100K I'm not going to get excited about a colored t-shirt. They are talking about cutting Tri-Care for "working age" retirees with complete silence from our Generals and I'm supposed to get excited about Friday patches?

Edited January 20, 2014 by Rusty Pipes

[Striper_WSO]

Hey, I'm glad that this stupidity is being corrected, but it never should have happened in the first place… and now we are supposed to feel grateful for just a little less queep? Sorry, but when my pension was just cut by over $100K I'm not going to get excited about a colored t-shirt. They are talking about cutting Tri-Care for "working age" retirees with complete silence from our Generals and I'm supposed to get excited about Friday patches?

You sound like an awful, miserable person.

[waveshaper]

So let me get this straight… Still waiting on a "vector" from the CSAF, just got told on the Friday before Christmas that you might get a pink slip with an offer to apply for VSP/TERA where everyone had to show their cards to their boss only to have an 11th hour "just kidding" message come out from A1 and your future pensions were just compromised to ensure we can get more sub-par F-35s that we don't really need to the absolute silence of every General Officer… and we are on page 3 celebrating colored t-shirts and "fun meter" patches?!? Looks like Big Blue won this round… pretty sad.

Now I know where the A-1 gets their ideas. (not Serious).

[Rusty Pipes]

You are one angry little elf.

I've heard rumors of masters not required until O-6, school type masked (in-res or in correspondence), trying to make it so that it does not matter when or how you go, guidance to prevent Wing/CCs from using masters as a rack and stack. All good things.

I also heard that the Chief took all of the school applicants from the last year, removed the masters and IDE by correspondence information, and asked the Wing Commanders to re-rank them. Apparently 50% of the dudes who were not selected, were actually in the "select" pile.

What do all of these rumors mean? Jack and shit. But I'll gladly wear my pen tab patch on Tuesday, and my Friday shirt on Friday.

This is a step in the right direction. Lighten up Francis.

If that is all true I'll be happy to hear it officially… I genuinely think CSAF is looking out for us. I've met him several times and see him as one of the very few actual Leaders in our group of General Officers. Keeping anything like that a secret from a demoralized Officer corps that is praying for a blue box in the VSP matrix doesn't make much sense, but maybe after countless years of BOHICA I am more of a glass is half empty kind of guy as far as waiting for inspiration for our management is concerned.

[Fuzz]

Hey, I'm glad that this stupidity is being corrected, but it never should have happened in the first place and now we are supposed to feel grateful for just a little less queep? Sorry, but when my pension was just cut by over $100K I'm not going to get excited about a colored t-shirt. They are talking about cutting Tri-Care for "working age" retirees with complete silence from our Generals and I'm supposed to get excited about Friday patches?

Because its not our generals place to provide unsolicited opinions to the general public on what our civilian oversight does. If congress or the president asks them to provide their insight then they can go for it, otherwise openly criticizing isnt how things are supposed to be done.

[RTB]

Hey, I'm glad that this stupidity is being corrected, but it never should have happened in the first place… and now we are supposed to feel grateful for just a little less queep? Sorry, but when my pension was just cut by over $100K I'm not going to get excited about a colored t-shirt. They are talking about cutting Tri-Care for "working age" retirees and I'm supposed to get excited about Friday patches?

When all the Friday stuff was killed a couple years ago, there was OUTRAGE on BODN. And rightly so! That decision was bullshit. We got had by a shoe but sanity prevailed and that stuff is back. Yes, the retirement COLA cuts are total BS and attacks on TFL will also suck. But at least the AF is fixing this one thing that we have control over.

[Rusty Pipes]

I'll take the spears… no problem. I really am glad that this layer of queep is being removed and give credit to those that made it happen, but this is easy no brainer kind of stuff. It is a step in the right direction, but if we want to keep our best people on both the O and E side we need to tackle the big issues and let the force know it is happening. We need to let our Officers lead at the O-4 and O-5 level and let them know innovation is not a bad thing instead of treating us like children who just don't get it. Colored t-shirts and morale patches are great, but we need to go back to the fundamentals of what makes a great military service… I hope a relief of this queep is just a start.

[sqwatch]

What advice would you give Wing Commanders on approving morale patches? Should there be reasonable limits on what we allow on our uniforms? Should it be acceptable to allow patches with sports teams, KCCO, Infidel, Honey Badger, sexual innuendos, playboy silhouette, etc? Who should decide what is acceptable or not and how should they enforce the standard?

What advice would I give? None. My wg/cc ensures, among other things, that My wing has the training and equipment necessary to wage an air war. If wg/ccs lack the judgement to make a decision on a Fvcking morale patch, then I'm screwed and the terrorists win. They already have enough competence to figure out this insignificant- yet morale boosting decision. Good to see someone trusts their subordinates.

[Buddy Spike]

What advice would you give Wing Commanders on approving morale patches? Should there be reasonable limits on what we allow on our uniforms? Should it be acceptable to allow patches with sports teams, KCCO, Infidel, Honey Badger, sexual innuendos, playboy silhouette, etc? Who should decide what is acceptable or not and how should they enforce the standard?

My advice - write this e-mail (and you have my permission to copy this word for word into your leadership by e-mail blast):

Morale patches are now allowed. You are all officers. Act like it.

Questions?

R,

WG/CC

Is it seriously that hard to lead without asking dumbass questions like the one you just posed?

[FlyinGrunt]

Hang on. Liquid is trying to make a point, and rather than we crew dogs saying "open the floodgates!!", he's trying to make us consider what we would do in the wing king's position. Here's my take:

1. All MDS silhouettes/names are OK. As a gunship guy, I also say that "gruesome" things about killing are OK, just don't wear them at airshows and scar little Timmy with your evil warfighting hate.

2. All sports teams and state flags are OK (plus both Don't Tread on Me flags, Gonzalez flag, and any past American flag)

3. Acronyms are OK, profanity is not (unless the acronym is something egregious, like RCH)

4. All others, take a picture and send to Sq/CC. Sq/CC says yes or no, then execs put it on sharepoint or something. Intent is 30 sec of the Sq/CC's time per patch.

Sound sane? I might add that I just outlawed 50% of my own morale patches, so hopefully the PTB will appreciate the intellectual honesty. In case it wasn't clear, I'm hoping they're lurking.

[Colokent]

I'm a retired O-6 (Reserve, though my last 12 years were spent attached to AD units)...been in several command positions, been in ICBMs (where the active duty Wing/CC was a good sh*t [made 2-stars, BTW], but trying to be a "good soldier" by **vaguely** enforcing the ban on morale patches...all while the Vice Wing/CC and OG/CCs [two other good sh&ts, BTW] wore them!!!). All I can say is (other than "RustyPipes" and "FlyinGrunt" are probably geniuses without knowing it for their comments above) is:

I personally cannot for the life of me...understand the **obsession** (read that "hard-on") that leadership has for "Friday" patches-- I personally think that it's BULLSH&T, and an unnecessary morale-buster. 2nd best one I ever saw was a desert subdued "New Belgian Brewing" logo on a guys flightsuit in "The Muff" at Al Udeid (okay, #2 is a tie...the other one was a tab I also saw in the desert saying "F&ck it's hot here..."). Here's the cleverest I ever saw:

Again, just my .02 cents. IMHO, the current-day AF is a morale-devoid wasteland, where in near-hysterical efforts to be promoted, many senior leaders are working overtime to ensure it is a politically correct Mecca...NOT the world's most capable air and space force.

Kent

Edited January 20, 2014 by Colokent

[Seriously]

I'm a retired O-6 (Reserve, though my last 12 years were spent attached to AD units)...been a Squadron CC, been a Wing CC in the desert, been in ICBMs (where the active duty Wing/CC was a good sh*t [made 2-stars, BTW], but trying to be a "good soldier" by **vaguely** enforcing the ban on morale patches...all while the Vice Wing/CC and OG/CCs [two other good sh&ts, BTW] wore them!!!), and all I can say is (other than "RustyPipes" and "FlyinGrunt" are probably geniuses without knowing it for their comments above):

I personally cannot for the life of me...understand the **obsession** (read that "hard-on") that leadership has for "Friday" patches-- I personally think that it's BULLSH&T, and an unnecessary morale-buster. 2nd best one I ever saw was a desert subdued "New Belgian Brewing" logo on a guys flightsuit in "The Muff" at Al Udeid (okay, #2 is a tie...the other one was a tab I also saw in the desert saying "F&ck it's hot here..."). Here's the cleverest I ever saw:

Again, just my .02 cents. IMHO, the AF is a morale-devoid wasteland at the moment, working overtime to ensure it is a politically correct mecca....WHY?

Kent

Leaders "vaguely" enforcing rules rarely gets picked up by the lower ranks. In every instance I've seen a commander try to do that, most dudes in the rank and file aren't sure of the commander's intent and will just err on the side of caution and abide by the rule 100%. In all honesty, it comes off as a CYA move by the commander even though it may be well intentioned. In other words, it's mostly chickenshit.

[Liquid]

My advice - write this e-mail (and you have my permission to copy this word for word into your leadership by e-mail blast):

Is it seriously that hard to lead without asking dumbass questions like the one you just posed?

Your advice sucks. Nice try.

[Colokent]

Leaders "vaguely" enforcing rules rarely gets picked up by the lower ranks. In every instance I've seen a commander try to do that, most dudes in the rank and file aren't sure of the commander's intent and will just err on the side of caution and abide by the rule 100%. In all honesty, it comes off as a CYA move by the commander even though it may be well intentioned. In other words, it's mostly chickenshit.

I didn't disagree until the "chickenshit" comment. So, here's a GREAT idea: We should have CGOs and junior FGOs (preferably those who haven't supervised more than a 3 to 5-person space, missile, or aircrew in their career) give presentations to AWC, NWC, and CAPSTONE classes so that Lt Cols, Colonels, and Generals will understand the "correct" way to command. Wish I would have thought of that...

K

Edited January 20, 2014 by Colokent

[panchbarnes]

CSAF just empowered Wing Commanders to use judgement in situations that are usually standardized at HAF, MAJCOM or NAF levels. I respect him for empowering subordinate commanders, but I suspect we will see a wide variety of "fun" approved for wear on our uniforms.

What advice would you give Wing Commanders on approving morale patches? Should there be reasonable limits on what we allow on our uniforms? Should it be acceptable to allow patches with sports teams, KCCO, Infidel, Honey Badger, sexual innuendos, playboy silhouette, etc? Who should decide what is acceptable or not and how should they enforce the standard?

I think I get your concern in that given today's 24-hr media and the hyper-sensitivity with the POTUS/SECDEF-directed sexual assault prevention effort, all it takes is one incident to ruin this for everyone. Regardless of the standard set by the MAJCOM/NAF/Wing Commanders, I guarantee you someone will ignore it eventually. Zero-tolerance anything is just unrealistic. Last I checked, we haven't gotten rid of sexual assaults, drug use, and DUIs, even though we have standards and enforcers (abundant of them) of those standards.

Delegate it down, trust your subordinates, give them an objective and let them lead and set the standard (apply common sense here). Correct and vector as needed, repeat (OODA?) If they are just ing it up, that should be a sign that they are not leadership material and take action(s) as needed.

MAJCOM/NAF/Wing leadership making tactical decisions such as this only slow everyone down and deter them away from their primary mission of organize, equip, and train (as someone has already mentioned). Not only that, now the subordinates will be hesitant to make other tactical decisions. I want to believe this situation is what Gen Welsh is trying to reverse.

There is always going to be someone in the media or public that is looking for reasons to make the AF look bad. You can't make everyone happy, let's not let the naysayers paralyze the AF.

Just my 2 cents.

[Colokent]

Panch shacks it...

K

[DFRESH]

Oh fuck it. Four's banzai, I'm hubcappin or you can film the merge if you want....

Your advice sucks. Nice try.

Liquid.. here's a chance to teach a young guy in the LPA a little something. What about that advice sucked, specifically? If I knew that an e-mail like that was sent from my WG/CC to my SQ/CC, it would be very motivating. "Why", you ask? Because in four very simply sentences, a topic that shouldn't be a big deal, wasn't! But also in those four very tiny sentences, my SQ/CC was delegated the authority that he ought to have had in the first place. So now he can spend less than 69 seconds writing up an approval list like FlyinGrunt posted. So in a total of maybe 75.9 seconds of "commander time" (6.9 seconds for the WG/CC and 69 seconds for the SQ/CC), a relatively minor issue was able to remain minor, and a little bit of morale has returned to the front line guy. So again, I ask, why did that advice suck?

If anybody sees my flight lead tell him I'll be back when I'm winchester.

[Rusty Pipes]

Let leaders lead… delegate this down to the Sq CC's and let the FGOs in the Squadron police themselves. I know that is a cosmic idea and hasn't been done in the past 5 yrs or so, but even when these were allowed a simple, "Seriously dude?" from an FGO to an LT or young Capt was usually enough to keep the inappropriate stuff out. Put out a generic Wing policy covering profanity, sexual references, etc and be done with it.