Return of Friday shirts / patches

[drewpey]

I made a brief mention of this in the beginning of the thread, but this is what I thought was interesting. I remember many years ago talking to a maintainer who had tried (along with his buds) to wear Friday shirts, and they were slammed by their superintendent because they weren't in regs. This almost strikes as something that nobody was against on principal, but simply because it didn't apply across the board. I have no issue with the REMFs (not referencing MX) wearing colored shirts, and if that's what it takes to get our shit back, then more power to them.

It's good to see REMFs trying to drum up unit morale. It's bad enough they can't wear their own unit patches as a point of pride. It would be nice to see heritage make a comeback.

[Toro]

Your advice sucks. Nice try.

Disagree.

All of you - police your bros, and we can have nice things.

[Cornholio5]

Great, now when will strippers and hot local civilian chicks be allowed back in the O'Clubs as legend has it?

HAHAHA! Yeah, that would be great...for all o-clubs except DLF. Hell Rio does not exactly have hot local civilian chicks. On the binary scale, they are all 0. I am sure plenty of students would love to hit that, though, and have a permanent connection to this sh**hole.

My 2 cents on this now. GREAT on General Welsh for doing this! This is definitely a step in the right direction. Only problem is that this is going to follow the typical bulls**t bureaucratic road that all policy changes do. By the time morale patch wear guidelines arrive at the group or squadron level it will be so restricted that it will not even be worth approving them again. Holy crap, I could only imagine what the E leadership will do. Leaders are just too worried about getting in trouble or what their superiors think of them. I just don't see this happening as planned.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Cornholio5

[Buddy Spike]

Your advice sucks. Nice try.

Your leadership sucks.

If you can't trust your people enough to say exactly what I said, then either A) You need new people or B) You're the problem. In most cases, the answer is B.

You trust me enough to step up during war and make life and death decisions as an officer, but when it comes down to knowing that a picture of BQZip's Mom's Flaming Hot Box on a morale patch is inappropriate, you think I'm incapable of figuring that shit out on my own? Seriously?

[Seriously]

I didn't disagree until the "chickenshit" comment. So, here's a GREAT idea: We should have CGOs and junior FGOs (preferably those who haven't supervised more than a 3 to 5-person space, missile, or aircrew in their career) give presentations to AWC, NWC, and CAPSTONE classes so that Lt Cols, Colonels, and Generals will understand the "correct" way to command. Wish I would have thought of that...

K

That's the beauty of this message board. You can come on here and see unfiltered, unbiased, (and maybe sometimes uninformed) opinions about the Air Force and leadership in general. I think some guys here have an axe to grind, but most want what's best for the AF.

[Gravedigger]

There are really two ways to view these changes. The cynical view says this is leadership trying to placate the masses with simple things to keep their minds off of the major issues. The optimist view says that this change indicates senior leadership has a pulse on what the masses want and is trying to fix the simple things that don't take an act of congress or any more budget space.

Personally, I'm more on the optimist side and I'm excited to see these changes.

[Snooter]

OH LOOK, A PENNY!

Edited January 20, 2014 by Snooter

[Liquid]

Your leadership sucks.

If you can't trust your people enough to say exactly what I said, then either A) You need new people or B) You're the problem. In most cases, the answer is B.

You trust me enough to step up during war and make life and death decisions as an officer, but when it comes down to knowing that a picture of BQZip's Mom's Flaming Hot Box on a morale patch is inappropriate, you think I'm incapable of figuring that shit out on my own? Seriously?

Your advice sucks because it does not address the challenge CSAF just presented Sq CCs and Wg CCs. You naively think that broad "go do the right thing" guidance equals leadership. One reason we trust officers to go execute combat missions is because we are confident that they understand their mission, they are trained to competently execute their portion of the mission, they are properly resourced, they understand the constraints and restraints required by relevant authorities, we are confident in their leadership abilities and there are appropriate C2 mechanisms to adjust the mission when the planning assumptions are wrong or the enemy changes the environment. We don't just trust officers to kill without making sure they understand the standards, expectations and mission and that they are prepared to make those important decisions. We also continuously assess the judgement, performance and leadership of the officer (we should probably do more of this).

CSAF changed the AFI to give Wg CCs the authority to allow morale patches on Fridays and special events, but requires Sq CCs to maintain a list of acceptable patches and tabs. I asked the leadership pros at BODN what they thought the standard should be and how it should be enforced. You reply with a cheap shot about email leadership and the simplistic "act like officers".

I'm no longer a wing commander, so I really don't have a dog in this fight. I am curious to know what advice, guidance, intent, standards the Wg CCs are going to give Sq CCs about acceptable morale patches. I think written supplemental guidance (MFRs on the wall) and emails are overused and ineffective. Personal mentoring, where your subordinate commanders understand your intent and expectations, is much better. However, you would be surprised how many people ask "where is that written" when given feedback on how well they are meeting a standard that officers should know.

I think the Friday morale patches should be authorized by all Wg CCs and the Sq CCs should approve patches that balance unit pride, humor, cleverness and professionalism. I think Sq CCs should standardize the morale patches worn in their unit and not allow the freestyle expression of individual taste and humor. We wear a uniform, not walking billboards. Sports teams, offensive material, and commercial product endorsements should not be allowed on our uniforms.

You say this is common sense and we should trust our officers to make the right call. I agree, but there will still be a need for Wg CCs and Sq CCs to talk about where we draw the standards line and how we will enforce the predictable deviations from common sense. What we wear on our uniforms transmits information to those who see us. Our joint partners, civilian leaders, allies and subordinate Airmen make leadership and competence assessments when they see these patches. There are plenty of examples of officers wearing morale patches that do not belong on a uniform. The leadership challenge for our officers is creating a force that knows how to make the judgement and has the courage to enforce the standards, without specific written guidance from above.

And I agree. This is the easy shit. It should not take more than a few minutes to define the expectations. We have much larger and more complex leadership challenges we should all be concerned about.

[Seriously]

However, you would be surprised how many people ask "where is that written" when given feedback on how well they are meeting a standard that officers should know.

For better or worse, we are an organization that lives and dies by the "regulations."

I wasn't around when they were AFRs, but didn't we make the change to AFIs to get away from the "well it doesn't say that in the reg" sallies?

[Cap-10]

Small victories....better than no victories.

Now where is that Friday patch of the Transgender Nazi Eskimo clubbing a baby seal while screaming "FUCK" and wearing a Red Sox jersey ?!?!

Cap-10

[Tonka]

And I agree. This is the easy shit. It should not take more than a few minutes to define the expectations. We have much larger and more complex leadership challenges we should all be concerned about.

There in lies the rub, 15 years ago we absolutely policed ourselves with respect to the easy/small stuff. Now we have removed most decision making from lower ranks that they have no no perceived experience to be accountable (we have created a military of AFI following robots). Those that did make unilateral decisions got schwacked when their decision didn't perfectly match how the guy 3 positions up would have done it. However, i have no doubt that that skill set is still there it just needs a chance to be broken out... What better way but with insignificant, easily correctable rule changes that can be implemented/enforced at the lowest level.

[pawnman]

If troops in Flight Med get to wear sports jersey's during football season, then I don't see why we shouldn't get to wear tabs with a sports team name/logo. Though I'm sure those who root for the DC NFL team will get a call from MEO (just joking...or am I?).

As for who decides what is acceptable, it sounds like from the AFI that it is up to the Sq/CC...which means that anybody above the Sq/CC can tell him/her that it's not acceptable (since that's how it goes for everything else). And as for enforcing the standard, well of course you will be required to take a picture of the tab, make an eSSS and route the tab for approval to your Sq/CC, and then will have to keep the signed copy of the approval letter on your person at all times. I'm sure a new form will be developed specifically for the process.

Bingo. It isn't that hard to decide what is and is not professional. Airframe specific patches, squadron patches, sports teams, colleges...those all seem like they fall firmly on the proper side of the "health and welfare" border.

[Tonka]

I wasn't around when they were AFRs, but didn't we make the change to AFIs to get away from the "well it doesn't say that in the reg" sallies?

The 11-217 model seems to work well... If it's bold it's procedure, if not it's technique.

[TacAirCoug]

You naively think that broad "go do the right thing" guidance equals leadership.

I think it shows a profound lack of trust in your people if you automatically believe they won't do the right thing.

When I fly, I usually wear a baseball cap under my headset. Am I stupid enough to wear it outside of the airplane? Hell no. As soon as the squat switch in my ass opens up as I get out of my seat, the hat comes off. Shockingly, the hat even stays in my bag if I happen to have a VIP onboard. It's scary how smart I am sometimes.

When I was a young LT, I wore a subdued tab patch with a silhouette of a Herk. Most everyone else in the squadron wore some variation of that. I didn't have to be told not to wear a patch with a stripper on it, or even one with my school's logo. I knew damn well that if I did, I was going to get the stink eye from someone in the squadron, or worse yet from the DO or CC. I didn't need it written down, nor did anyone else. We had enough sense to know where the line was and policed ourselves in those rare instances when that line got crossed. SQ/CC's rarely, if ever, got involved, much less WG/CC's.

Put a little trust in your people, you might be surprised at how they respond.

[ElLoco]

I think it shows a profound lack of trust in your people if you automatically believe they won't do the right thing.

When I fly, I usually wear a baseball cap under my headset. Am I stupid enough to wear it outside of the airplane? Hell no. As soon as the squat switch in my ass opens up as I get out of my seat, the hat comes off. Shockingly, the hat even stays in my bag if I happen to have a VIP onboard. It's scary how smart I am sometimes.

When I was a young LT, I wore a subdued tab patch with a silhouette of a Herk. Most everyone else in the squadron wore some variation of that. I didn't have to be told not to wear a patch with a stripper on it, or even one with my school's logo. I knew damn well that if I did, I was going to get the stink eye from someone in the squadron, or worse yet from the DO or CC. I didn't need it written down, nor did anyone else. We had enough sense to know where the line was and policed ourselves in those rare instances when that line got crossed. SQ/CC's rarely, if ever, got involved, much less WG/CC's.

Put a little trust in your people, you might be surprised at how they respond.

Says it all

[HeloDude]

Sports teams, offensive material, and commercial product endorsements should not be allowed on our uniforms.

What's wrong with sports teams logos? You might call it 'advertising/marketing' for a specific team, but I call it morale! What about college flags/emblems? What about State flags?

You made a big deal on here several months ago about the picture of the wife in the bikini on one's work desk,blah blah blah...whatever, it's a stupid done deal. So I say, if you can have it on your desk (in plane view), why can't we wear it as a 3/4'' x 1.5'' tab on our left arm?

I'll concede that I agree we should have a professional appearance both in and outside the office while in uniform...but if the higher military authorities will allow you to march in a gay pride parade in your uniform, then I don't see the problem with wearing a tab displaying the University of Illinois in a non-offensive manner (other than that they pretty much suck at football).

By the way...would you consider this 'acceptable'? (some love for M2)

[QueepFactory]

Can anyone tell me why there are 90 posts cheering (and bitching) about the way we did, or will, regulate T Shirts and patches? People have even gone as far as hypothetically putting themselves in their Sq/cc or Wg/cc's shoes to develop fake emails or policies about this new rule. Thus creating the same circle of nonsense detail we have been brainwashed to think that we can't live without.

You want my 2 cents on this uniform improvement?.........Cool.

[Champ Kind]

You want my 2 cents on this uniform improvement?.........Cool.

Nailed it.

/endthread

[slackline]

What we wear on our uniforms transmits information to those who see us. Our joint partners, civilian leaders, allies and subordinate Airmen make leadership and competence assessments when they see these patches. There are plenty of examples of officers wearing morale patches that do not belong on a uniform. .

Are you really a senior officer? I ask only because I figured any real senior officer would have worked with some of our allies. Anyone who's ever worked with any of our allies knows that with an exception for our Muslim allies, at any level from E-1 on up to O-7 (and probably higher, just never seen their offices) you will find full up naked pictures in their office on the walls, desks, etc. I agree with you that I think that kind of crap is inappropriate, but none (see exception I listed earlier) of our allies agree with you. The US is the only place where we try to have a non-offensive environment. Everyone else acts like adults whether their is filth on the wall or not.

Sorry, I'm derailing the thread, but you make your credibility dubious at best when you speak with "authority" on things you obviously don't understand.

[Buddy Spike]

Your advice sucks because it does not address the challenge CSAF just presented Sq CCs and Wg CCs. You naively think that broad "go do the right thing" guidance equals leadership.

The fact that you called this a "challenge" shows just how clueless you and the rest of the "leaders" truly are. If this is a challenge to you on any level, you're not qualified to stand in front and lead people. You're just a glorified manager.

Leadership is setting the standard and trusting your people to do the right thing (and course-correcting when necessary). If you seriously have to get this worked up about "OMG WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE WITHOUT MICROMANAGING GUIDANCE!" then you have much bigger issues.

[sputnik]

By the way...would you consider this 'acceptable'? (some love for M2)

Screen shot 2014-01-20 at 11.10.58 AM.png

It is embarrassing how long it took me to figure out why Alaska's clear superiority to Arkansas had anything to do with M2.

[Ram]

As soon as the squat switch in my ass opens up...

Wait...you fly eagles? I thought you were a herk driver.

[HeloDude]

It is embarrassing how long it took me to figure out why Alaska's clear superiority to Arkansas had anything to do with M2.

Well played, sir. I ran out of 'up votes' for the day, else you would receive one.

But who really believes Arkansas would ever be superior to Alaska in anything?

[Liquid]

The fact that you called this a "challenge" shows just how clueless you and the rest of the "leaders" truly are. If this is a challenge to you on any level, you're not qualified to stand in front and lead people. You're just a glorified manager.

Leadership is setting the standard and trusting your people to do the right thing (and course-correcting when necessary). If you seriously have to get this worked up about "OMG WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE WITHOUT MICROMANAGING GUIDANCE!" then you have much bigger issues.

Easy to say when you don't have to actually set or enforce the standard. I'm not worked up over this. Like I said, this is easy shit.

[HeloDude]

Like I said, this is easy shit.

It 'should' be easy shit. But when senior officers and politicians have allowed an over aggressive PC culture to take over, then nothing is easy when every stupid complaint of being offended is considered worth investigating. I'm being a little facetious, but this is what has taken over.

A bottle of scotch says that if NFL teams are allowed on tabs (again, Flight Med troops were wearing NFL jerseys last year at work), that someone will complain about the 'Redskins' being offensive. And I wouldn't be totally surprised if a college team bearing the word 'Indian' or 'Chief' would also not be allowed...the Seminoles might also be banned. The Vikings and Fighting Irish will be ok though.