Master's Degree Madness

[busdriver]

This is exactly what I'm doing. I'm only taking one class at a time. I'm still a 2Lt so I got lots of time.

I'd say as long as you don't really have any real job to do that's fine. But once you enter training, knock that shit off and be good at your job. If you have as much of a head start as you seem to, finishing it should be cake if the pendulum swings again.

Isn't it a sad commentary that the highest ranking officer in the Air Force says, "Guys, don't waste your time with a Master's," and we say collectively, "Nice try, but no thanks.

Moseley said "If we want you to get a master's, we'll send you." That changed with the next chief. I think the current chief's message has a bit better chance of sticking (get it done on your own time, but we'll change the timeline) but we'll see.

That said, I know a retired O-5 who said the AAD question came up when he went looking for a job within the defense industry when he got out. Considering he described his salary as "silly money" it may be a worth while investment in time if you aren't looking for an airline gig.

[BuddhaSixFour]

The problem is that we only talk about **individual** integrity when we say "Integrity First." However, **institutional** integrity is more than just the sum of individual integrities. It's institutional integrity that we lack because we don't treat it as it's own objective.

Gen Welsh means what he says, and the next CSAF may well mean what he says if he decides to change it back. Neither would be violating their personal integrity, but the next CSAF would be violating the Air Force's institutional integrity.

If we're going to build institutional integrity, commanders and staffs (read AFPC) need to realize that sometimes they're going to need to help other people keep their promises, even when it means doing something they might not have otherwise done. That can be a new commander keeping the word of the previous one, a senior commander standing by the decisions of a subordinate commander, or simply throttling back on change for changes sake.

We need to make that an articulated goal if we're going to stop making liars out of honest leaders and build more faith in Big Blue.

[guineapigfury]

If the CSAF did sign this off at CORONA, then hopefully the intent was to build buy-in amongst his likely successors. If the change sticks, then the delay will have been well worth it.

[HiFlyer]

That said, I know a retired O-5 who said the AAD question came up when he went looking for a job within the defense industry when he got out. Considering he described his salary as "silly money" it may be a worth while investment in time if you aren't looking for an airline gig.

This is very common. The defense industry sells their services (or in many cases sells YOUR services) to the govt, and the quality of their competitive proposals are scored by the acquisition authority. Part of that score is usually based on the quality of the people available to work the contract. Advanced degrees are a surrogate for estimating the quality of the proposed work force. Not only that, but when you're looking for a job, the industry tends to hire people at least partially based on their academic background because that's what they need to sell you to the gov't. In many cases, the actual area of the advanced degree is not particularly significant, just the fact that you have an advanced degree of some sort. In my company, our yearly resume update specifically focuses on past experience (military and civilian) and education/degrees and any recent upgrades to your academic records.

If you think AAD pressure is unique to the AF, you are mistaken. Perhaps not as huge for the airline job, but for most of the defense contractor world here around the beltway (and all their "offsite" locations) it's an important square to fill to both get hired in the first place as well as staying employed as someone the company can sell to the customer.

[Prozac]

Not a factor AT ALL at the airlines. I've met Captains with only a high school diploma......rare, but they're out there.

[olevelo]

I'd say as long as you don't really have any real job to do that's fine. But once you enter training, knock that shit off and be good at your job. If you have as much of a head start as you seem to, finishing it should be cake if the pendulum swings again.

This attitude is just as bad as the "get it done or else" attitude. Maybe he wants to do the master's to further himself and his knowledge, not to check the box? I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but being an aviator is NOT that hard. I worked on a no-shit engineering master's while in Nav school, finished my PPL, and still managed to be #2 in my class. I know, I know, I'm not a pilot and being a pilot is soo much more demanding I just don't understand. No, you just don't know how to manage your time. BTW, I didn't do that master's to check the box, I did it because I wanted to.

I'm not suggesting everyone do that, and if you have a family to take care of, even less so. But I'm tired of all people saying "don't do that because you need to focus on your job, and by god, NO ONE can do all of that at once and still be good at flying an airplane!".

[SurelySerious]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but being an aviator is NOT that hard. I worked on a no-shit engineering master's while in Nav school, finished my PPL, and still managed to be #2 in my class.

People whose aircraft have tactics to fight other people trying to kill them may have more to study than loading an FMS and reading magazines.

[Karl Hungus]

If you think AAD pressure is unique to the AF, you are mistaken.

It's not at all unique. Tons of organizations want their employees to get AADs, not just defense contractors. Of course, those organizations also look at where you got the degree and what subject matter it's in. None are impressed with a bullshit online Touro MBA, let alone SOS and ACSC. How many people are able to get a real, valuable masters degree, from a real school, by the time they meet their major's board? Certainly some are, but most don't have that ability between their supposed primary duty, all of their additional duty BS, deployments, etc.

Like a lot of things, the AF has good intentions with terrible execution.

[Alaska_ABM]

Only wish I could give back my box-checking bullshiat degree in order to use TA for the real degree I am now pursuing. Oh well, it's something I actually want so paying for it is worth it.

[ElLoco]

This attitude is just as bad as the "get it done or else" attitude. Maybe he wants to do the master's to further himself and his knowledge, not to check the box? I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but being an aviator is NOT that hard. I worked on a no-shit engineering master's while in Nav school, finished my PPL, and still managed to be #2 in my class. I know, I know, I'm not a pilot and being a pilot is soo much more demanding I just don't understand. No, you just don't know how to manage your time. BTW, I didn't do that master's to check the box, I did it because I wanted to.

I'm not suggesting everyone do that, and if you have a family to take care of, even less so. But I'm tired of all people saying "don't do that because you need to focus on your job, and by god, NO ONE can do all of that at once and still be good at flying an airplane!".

Isn't nav school pretty much just 20 dudes in the back of an airplane alternating between sleeping, scarfing on cheetos, and LARPing?

[Prozac]

STFU Nav.

[Homestar]

while in Nav school

[Mustache Sally]

People whose aircraft have tactics to fight other people trying to kill them may have more to study than loading an FMS and reading magazines.

Ouch!

[Goblin]

Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!

[czecksikhs]

Olevelo, since you've been to test pilot school, wouldn't you get enough pilot experience to just tell yourself to "STFU, Nav?" It's like a crazy circular reference.

[Ram]

This attitude is just as bad as the "get it done or else" attitude. Maybe he wants to do the master's to further himself and his knowledge, not to check the box? I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but being an aviator is NOT that hard. I worked on a no-shit engineering master's while in Nav school, finished my PPL, and still managed to be #2 in my class. I know, I know, I'm not a pilot and being a pilot is soo much more demanding I just don't understand. No, you just don't know how to manage your time. BTW, I didn't do that master's to check the box, I did it because I wanted to.

[chim richalds]

don't worry dude, come to RPAs, navs are welcomed here, hell, they even let some of you be commanders. Not bad for guys who have been extinct from the rest of the flying world for years.

[Seriously]

This attitude is just as bad as the "get it done or else" attitude. Maybe he wants to do the master's to further himself and his knowledge, not to check the box? I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but being an aviator is NOT that hard. I worked on a no-shit engineering master's while in Nav school, finished my PPL, and still managed to be #2 in my class. I know, I know, I'm not a pilot and being a pilot is soo much more demanding I just don't understand. No, you just don't know how to manage your time. BTW, I didn't do that master's to check the box, I did it because I wanted to.

I'm not suggesting everyone do that, and if you have a family to take care of, even less so. But I'm tired of all people saying "don't do that because you need to focus on your job, and by god, NO ONE can do all of that at once and still be good at flying an airplane!".

Edited June 21, 2014 by Seriously

[olevelo]

You guys are so predictable. Yes I knew every one of those reactions and comments were coming, but I still felt it was worth saying. If only there were a mighty pilot humble enough to admit that flying an airplane is not the hardest thing in the world to do. But we all know that's not going to happen.

[SurelySerious]

flying an airplane is not the hardest thing in the world to do.

Clearly, since Navs pass IFS. I'll spell it out for you: this isn't an FBO with a 152, or American Eagle. Being able to get an airplane off the ground and being good at tactics require an incredibly different amount of work.

[AnimalMother]

Who the hell said flying was hard? Flying is the easy part, the hard part is being so damn good looking. Some people...

[olevelo]

Clearly, since Navs pass IFS. I'll spell it out for you: this isn't an FBO with a 152, or American Eagle. Being able to get an airplane off the ground and being good at tactics require an incredibly different amount of work.

I wasn't comparing my training. I've flown with a number of otherwise incredibly retarded pilots who have proven that it doesn't take that much to be a capable military aviator and yet not be good at much else. I'm not dogging those guys, good on them for finding something they are good at, and most of them recognize their other limitations (as I recognize my own). My point is that just because you're the best F-16 pilot doesn't mean you're the best at everything, and it also doesn't mean you can't work on master's degree, and STILL be the best F-16 pilot, if you really want to. Again not saying you should, just that it's possible.

[olevelo]

I should clarify that my comments are not meant to imply that I think all pilots are dumbasses (there are an equal, or perhaps slightly smaller, percentage as compared to the rest of society), nor that military aviation and all that comes with it are easy and any guy off the street can do it. Just trying to make my point about not telling a guy to knock off his master's studies when he starts training because you think both can't be done well at once. Because that's just BS.

[ElLoco]

Words

[Prozac]

Good luck when you fuck it up by the numbers at training and your IPs find out you've had your nose in books other than what you've been told to study. If you can handle training, your masters, and your ten sided die all at the same time, good on you. I wouldn't recommend it to your friends.