Would you give up a good paying civilian job to go AD?

[Slick]

Hi guys,

I've applied to 2 guard units so far and no luck...but going to keep trying for now. If I didn't have a good paying job I would totally apply for AD. I know it is difficult to get into pilot training no matter how you go about it, but I imagine it would be easier to get picked up if you went the AD route instead of the guard units.

I'm considering going AD for a few other reasons. Browsing through this forum I have read account of AD pilots who have just had an absolute blast in their AF careers. They got to fly numerous different airframes and traveled to all sorts of interesting places. Along with that they work with a great group of guys and form good lifelong friendships. I don't see any other way in life to get this type of amazing experience. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you'd get this same type of experience in the guard. Yes I know there is queep but don't think it would bother me too much if you have the right attitude.

I'm not exactly thrilled about my job but am good at it and earn around 100K/year. The thing is that being a military pilot has been my dream for over a decade now and I gotta do it one way or another as I know I will always wonder "what if" if I don't pursue it. I'm torn because I feel like I'm giving up the chance on an amazing life experience in exchange for making a little bit of extra money.

I'm looking for your guys' $0.02 on whether or not you'd give up a position like mine for AD or if you'd just stick with trying to go guard.

Thanks

[tunes]

take some time reading:

and

[MooseAg03]

Go guard. Use some of that $100k to fly some and get your PPL, keep applying to guard units. If you go active duty, you'll have a blast in pilot training then you'll wind up stuck in a GCS for 8 years of your 10 year commitment like me and so many others.

If I had a civilian job that paid that well, there's no way in hell I'd even be considering active duty AF. Guard all the way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[C-21.Pilot]

1. Would I trade a $100K civilian job for the experiences, bro's, etc that I have the opportunity to encounter?

ABSOLUTELY

2. Would I leave my $100K military pilot job for a $40K civilian job TODAY?

ABSOLUETLY

3. Would I join the AF as a non-pilot?

ABSOLUTELY NOT

Bottom line, guys in our line of work are not after the money -- we want a quality of life and job satisfaction. As those things fade (as evident in the 2000+ posts mentioned above), guys will leave and seek greener pastures. Most of us have been in this game for 15+ years and have the Balad Hard Rock cafe t-shirts already.

Edited April 8, 2014 by C-21.Pilot

[Majestik Møøse]

I'm 6 years in as a mil pilot (making ~100k btw) and would do it all over again. Most of the bullshit we complain about really isn't all bad. We just get mad when smart people in leadership roles can't seem to fix the easy problems.

I spent a long time as a civilian before I commissioned, so my perspective is a little different than guys who've only worked for the AF. From what I've seen, at most levels, USAF leaders will care more about you than a civilian boss will. Even if your mil boss sucks, you'll get a new on in 2 yrs.

Civilian life was boring as hell to me. Even as a pilot, I'd imagine. I just did a CONUS airline-style mission yesterday and it was the most mundane damn thing I've done in years. The only reason I'd punch to the airlines is the 200k+ potential. At this point, I just got a sweet new assignment and I'm happy to stay in. I also haven't seen the inside of a GCS yet.

YMMV.

[Danger41]

If you are interested in being a pilot for the military and not concerned with having to deal with the career development stuff (PME, Masters, etc), then going and flying the line for the ANG is probably a better bet.

Personally speaking, I have greatly enjoyed my military flying career. I've been luckier than most with assignments and gotten to do some very cool things. I've had some raw deals as well, but overall I have enjoyed the experience. I will bitch about stuff as much as the next crew dog, but I enjoy this job. One word of caution, the luster of the job will wear off at times when you doing things you know are absolutely pointless.

Military flying is a lot like golf. You swear you're done with it and then all of a sudden you hit a great shot and you remember why you love it in the first place.

Good luck to you.

[Milchstrasse]

I'm not exactly thrilled about my job but am good at it and earn around 100K/year. The thing is that being a military pilot has been my dream for over a decade now and I gotta do it one way or another as I know I will always wonder "what if" if I don't pursue it. I'm torn because I feel like I'm giving up the chance on an amazing life experience in exchange for making a little bit of extra money.

If having a lot of money is important to you, then I'd say stick with your job and maybe find a Guard unit that will let you have both. But being a Guard dude doesn't mean you'll necessarily have the best of both worlds. One of the questions I was asked in a Guard interview was: "With your background, you could be making a lot of money with a civilian job. How do you feel about flying vipers and not making a lot of money?" I thought it was pretty easy question to answer.

[Buddy Spike]

How in the hell did you manage to browse this forum and completely miss all the threads of people bitching and moaning about all of the problems in the active duty AF, and how so many people want to get out and go to the guard (or get out altogether and get a 100k/yr civilian job). There's a RIF thread with like 2000+ replies of people bitching about not being let out fast enough.

If your SA is that low, God help us all of you get the controls of an airplane.

What do you fly?

[raimius]

If you enjoy your job and like the pay, I'd say go with the guard. Getting paid well and flying sometimes is a great deal.

The other thing I'd ask is, "How do you feel about moving every 3 years?" For some, it's an adventure. For others, it sucks the life out of their family.

I'm glad I joined, and so far AD life is treating me well. That said, there is a lot to fix in the AF (like any big govt. bureaucracy).

[Buddy Spike]

If you have a question specifically for me, please PM instead of derailing the thread.

Not a derail. You specifically called out this guy's SA for flying an airplane. I want to know what you fly to make such a statement. I'm sure I'm not the only one since you dodge the question constantly.

Please, share with the class your credentials on the matter.

[Liquid]

In military planning (MDMP, JOPP) we analyze courses of action (COAs) by determining if they are Feasible, Acceptable and Suitable (or Adequate). Some add Distinguishable and Complete. In your decision, you need to decide if "going AD" is Suitable/Adequate (accomplishes the mission, complies with guidance or in your case, meets your needs and desires). You need to decide if "going AD" is Acceptable, or worth the cost. Is it worth giving up what you have and spending the time, effort and energy to meet your needs by "going AD". Some on this forum will tell you it is not.

Only you will know whether "going AD" is Acceptable or Suitable for you. You need to spend some time determining if "going AD" is Feasible. Do you have the capability or resources necessary to do this? Determine if you can get a commission in the AF, qualify for pilot training, complete pilot training, get a security clearance, etc. There are many disqualifying factors. Since two ANG units have turned you down, it may not be Feasible. Very few people are offered the opportunity to serve on active duty or in the ANG as a pilot.

I have not regretted my decision to serve on active duty and I would do it again. Good luck with your decision.

[scoobs]

Wow,someone on here likes AD!! There are a lot of issues but thinking civilian life is going to be better is relative. Have you thought about the Navy, they seem happier?

Edited April 8, 2014 by scoobs

[M2]

The best thing about active duty is the retirement at the end...

[SocialD]

- Go Guard.

- If you're 28-29, shotgun apps everywhere, immediately!

- Getting turned down 2x isn't all that uncommon.

- Go and visit the squadron...multiple times if able. It will help your chances big time.

- When you get back from training, you can go back to making your 100k (plus an additional 20-25k/yr as a part timer).

- Profit in both money and experiences

- Being Guard allows for opportunities to take high paying jobs AND fly. A few of our guys who have worked their way into very lucrative careers (we even have an E-9 who is a multi-millionaire)...

[Slick]

Alright I will stick with the guard route for now but would not hesitate to apply for AD. I am aware of the high dissatisfaction and it is unfortunate that the leadership is not listening to you guys. What I'm mostly after here is the experience of serving alongside awesome people and making the good memories. Maybe im still naïve but I think the satisfaction of looking at what I'm doing with my life in the big picture would make it all worth it anyway.

Edited April 8, 2014 by cdroz88

[Milchstrasse]

Also, if you get dismayed by 2 rejections, you're going to have a bad time.

People seldom get picked up on their first, or even second interviews, and I know a dude who, in the course of a single year, applied to over 20 units and interviewed at 6 before getting picked up to fly vipers.

Learn from every interview, and improve your chances for the next.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Milchstrasse

[Stitch]

The best thing about active duty is the retirement at the end...

Ahhhh the Check of the month Club, cash for nothing but breathing! Heck yea. Big giant 2!

[sqwatch]

SA isn't confined to just airplanes. I'm saying he has low SA in general, which as many have alluded to in this forum, seems to be an important requirement for flying an airplane. It stands to reason a person with low general SA would be dangerous behind the controls of an airplane, just as he would behind the controls of a space shuttle, a train, a bus, or other big things that could crash and kill people.

Sage advice from a skilled operator! Before I commissioned, my SA was so high that they notified Luke AFB 4 years ahead of my arrival to allow enough time for them to come up with a syllabus tailored to my exceptional SA. I'm sure you have a similar experience hence your lack of patience for those not as gifted.

[Azimuth]

Going overseas for some is a crap shoot. I'm going to my fifth assignment with 13-years in...all CONUS and that wasn't by choice. Timing is everything, especially on active duty.

[17D_guy]

Alright I will stick with the guard route for now but would not hesitate to apply for AD. I am aware of the high dissatisfaction and it is unfortunate that the leadership is not listening to you guys. What I'm mostly after here is the experience of serving alongside awesome people and making the good memories. Maybe im still naïve but I think the satisfaction of looking at what I'm doing with my life in the big picture would make it all worth it anyway.

Worth is a relative value. When you're looking at that year long remote tour without your wife and 4 month old son, the big picture seems to get very small. So, please be aware that your life is going to change while you're serving. The AF isn't going to care about your life changing, your direct leadership might, but their power is being eroded by micro-managing bosses and Congress.

I'm not here to dissuade you, I hated the job I was doing 3 months ago and I'm absolutely loving the job I do now. I get to serve along the awesome people that you're mentioning, even though we don't fly. I'm getting to live the dream you're talking about. Mine just involves the wild digital yonder vs the blue.

No ones else seems to have mentioned it but also realize the following ASAP:

Timing is everything

Better lucky than good

There is no justice

Good words for life, but of particular import when dealing with that the AF throws you.

[scoobs]

Serious question, for those who have done guard and civ job is it hard to maintain life with the family?

[HuggyU2]

Serious question, for those who have done guard and civ job is it hard to maintain life with the family?

$22 says those that chime in will say "you can, as long as you avoid commuting".

[hindsight2020]

As a reserve baby, hell NO, I would never give up a good civilian job to go active duty. To each their own.

[pcola]

Alright I will stick with the guard route for now but would not hesitate to apply for AD. I am aware of the high dissatisfaction and it is unfortunate that the leadership is not listening to you guys. What I'm mostly after here is the experience of serving alongside awesome people and making the good memories. Maybe im still naïve but I think the satisfaction of looking at what I'm doing with my life in the big picture would make it all worth it anyway.

If you have the lifelong dream of flying AF jets, apply for every opportunity out there. Especially AD. You have to realize that while there are certainly never a shortage of things to bitch about on AD, the majority of dudes on here making the most noise don't know any different - most have no experience outside of AD. Most of them don't realize that at least part of their problems reside within themselves, and that they will eventually be just as dissatisfied as a civilian. I've been enlisted, a min wage civilian, a traditional college student, a civilian professional (Engineer), and AD AF for the last 10 years. Trust me, the AF isn't as broken as most around here think it is. Yes, there are issues, but that's life. All the things you mentioned are real benefits of this job that are hard to find elsewhere, and they make the BS worthwhile, at least manageable for 10 years. While I'm not looking to stay beyond my 20, I have no regrets about leaving a good paying, stable civilian job for AD. Good luck.

[ComingLeft]

Serious question, for those who have done guard and civ job is it hard to maintain life with the family?

I looked into leaving active duty for the guard and a non-flying civilian job before VSP/PC got screwed up. Unfortunately, guard and a non-flying are not compatible if you live more than two hours from your guard base. PERIOD. Guard sounds great at 1 weekend a month two weeks a year. That should be palatable for most employers and families at 38 days a year; however, KC-135 units require 100+ days a year to meet all your currencies. Other air frames require even more days. A guard F-16 pilot left his unit to go fly KC-135s because the F-16 requirements were incompatible with his nice paying $100K+ ATCC job. Some of these guard days you are flying, others in the simulator, and some are just ground training or worse computer based training. Flying can become a burden or dangerous if you try to fit it into your work schedule. A local sortie takes is minimum of 8 hours between prep, brief, flying, and debrief. Most are 12 hours. Not something to do after working 8-4. I knew in this situation I would be serving two masters and "Guard Weekend" would turn into a dirty word around the house but YMMV. Asking around, I found out that most people in guard flying squadrons that make a non-flying civilian job compatible live close and are self-employed, work for a defense contractor, or are willing to take a pay cut for QoL.

BTW during commissioning and pilot training you will be on active duty ONLY for two years. Can you support your family on $45,000 for those two years?

EDIT: Grammar

Edited April 9, 2014 by ComingLeft