PHOENIX Programs

[Guest hockeymv]

Hydro mentioned something that I haven't seen since the first page of posts. What exactly are the PHOENIX programs. I've heard very little about them and was wondering what they are all about. I'm still pretty new to the Herk, but the more I know about career progression and the T-ODP the better.

Also, any of you exchange types, how early did you start asking for that? What assignments did you have previously?

Thanks

[ 30. May 2006, 03:10: Message edited by: hockeymv ]

[HerkDerka]

For the Phoenix programs, there are three:

Phoenix Reach: 2 year tour. First year at TACC and second year at HQ AMC.

Phoenix Mobility: 2 year tour as an AMLO working/commanding TALCE units or Aerial Ports.

Phoenix Crossflow: 3 Year tour crossflowing to another AMC airframe. Basically (as a Herk guy) you're going to go to a tanker or strat airlift platform to learn the other side of the house. After this tour you'll most likely go to staff and then back to an MWS. But you might not come back to the Herk. For example, if you flew a tanker for crossflow you'll be eligible for leadership in a tanker squadron.

The basis of these programs is to teach you more about mobility than you know so they can promote you quickly.

The programs are very competitive as well.

For the exchange tours, don't worry about this until you are an IP. Then you can talk to the exchange guys at AFPC and see what they have.

For both of these, you can start looking at them now, but you probably won't be eligible until you're at least an O-3 and an IP.

HD

[ 30. May 2006, 04:12: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

[Guest TacAirDrvr]

Is it possible to do one of these programs out of AETC?? I.E. if I decide to do a white jet next, can I come back and do Phoenix Crossflow or Mobility?

[HerkDerka]

You won't be in the best position for it. The programs are competitve and the purpose it to make you a mobility expert. They are designed for your second/third flying assignment. I guess it's possible, but I don't think it's likely.

HD

[LockheedFix]

Does anybody have a link where I can get the official details about these PHOENIX programs? I checked on VMPF but couldn't find any.

[Guest Hydro130]

Originally posted by herk28:

Does anybody have a link where I can get the official details about these PHOENIX programs? I checked on VMPF but couldn't find any.

All good words from HD...

Are they still doing the ASAM program? That sounded like coolest (relative term!) one to me back in the day...

Herk28, ask your Execs for more info on these programs; they will have the latest. If you become seriously interested, make sure your Flt CC (or whoever your rater is) knows so they can start helping you out...

Cheers, Hydro

EDIT: wrong acronym

[ 30. May 2006, 10:41: Message edited by: Hydro130 ]

[Guest Hydro130]

Originally posted by TacAirDrvr:

Is it possible to do one of these programs out of AETC?? I.E. if I decide to do a white jet next, can I come back and do Phoenix Crossflow or Mobility?

Just as HD said, that would be really tough... I don't know of a white-jet (UPT/UNT, not Schoolhouse) dude who's done it. The timing doesn't work out.

The guys I've seen do this were senior MWS-Instructor/Evaluator Capts. That's the market the senior leadership is after.

Simlilar to WIC, they want mid-senior level Instructor/Evaluator Capts so that the course requirements (course itself, and follow-on obligations) don't mess-up your O-4 career progression too much.

Cheers, Hydro

[Guest hockeymv]

So, the takeaway from all of this is I should be leaving my first tour as an AC, to another Ops Squadron, upgrading to IP in that tour and then putting in for either a PHOENIX or exchange program?

Obviously this is hardly time sensitive, but I've always thought it better to have an idea when someone asks you what you want out of your career than to just say 'uhh... good question.'

Thanks for the time and input guys.

[Guest Hydro130]

Originally posted by hockeymv:

So, the takeaway from all of this is I should be leaving my first tour as an AC, to another Ops Squadron, upgrading to IP in that tour and then putting in for either a PHOENIX or exchange program?

Obviously this is hardly time sensitive, but I've always thought it better to have an idea when someone asks you what you want out of your career than to just say 'uhh... good question.'

Thanks for the time and input guys.

That's what I would say to do. As I told Herk28, if you are serious about one of these programs, make sure your rater knows ASAP... They can start building a case early in your OPRs, etc to help set you up for success when the time comes. If you are genuinely interested, don't keep it a secret.

Cheers, Hydro

[Scooter14]

Originally posted by TacAirDrvr:

Is it possible to do one of these programs out of AETC?? I.E. if I decide to do a white jet next, can I come back and do Phoenix Crossflow or Mobility?

I've seen it done. C-5 guy, Tweet IP/Flt CC/Check Flt CC (where I met him) then to KC-135 ACIQ (class after mine). I don't know how long he was in the FRED, but he was a Capt when he went to KC school.

I'm not saying it happens every day, but it's been done.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by hockeymv:

So, the takeaway from all of this is I should be leaving my first tour as an AC, to another Ops Squadron, upgrading to IP in that tour and then putting in for either a PHOENIX or exchange program?

That's what the programs are based on. However with the ops tempo comes high turnover and it ends up depending on the squadron. Some squadrons are upgrading ACs to IPs veeeery quickly. I've seen some guys go to IP school less than a year after being certed as an AC. If this isn't the case in the squadron, some guys might stay at their first assignment for an extra year to upgrade since it will be faster in a squadron they have been in for awhile.

The point here being I've seen a few guys go into Phoenix programs for their second flying assignment. Keep in mind they were all shit hot pilots and most of them stayed longer than three years at their first assignment.

As always, it's a toss up and telling your rater your desires (which means it will get to the boss) is the best way to get info and figure out what you need/want to do.

HD

[Guest IGB]

For the Phoenix programs, there are three:

Phoenix Reach: 2 year tour. First year at TACC and second year at HQ AMC.

Phoenix Mobility: 2 year tour as an AMLO working/commanding TALCE units or Aerial Ports.

Phoenix Crossflow: 3 Year tour crossflowing to another AMC airframe. Basically (as a Herk guy) you're going to go to a tanker or strat airlift platform to learn the other side of the house. After this tour you'll most likely go to staff and then back to an MWS. But you might not come back to the Herk. For example, if you flew a tanker for crossflow you'll be eligible for leadership in a tanker squadron.

The basis of these programs is to teach you more about mobility than you know so they can promote you quickly.

The programs are very competitive as well.

For the exchange tours, don't worry about this until you are an IP. Then you can talk to the exchange guys at AFPC and see what they have.

For both of these, you can start looking at them now, but you probably won't be eligible until you're at least an O-3 and an IP.

HD

[ 30. May 2006, 04:12: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

Revival!

Does anyone have any current gouge as to how the matching works for an airframe assuming you get picked up for Phoenix Reach (heavy aircraft crossflow)? Is it simultaneous to getting picked up by the board or does AFPC get the rank ordered list from the board then match according to aircraft availability, then ADP and your strat? I've known several tanker-to-tanker cross flows and was seeing if that was the exception to the rule or a common practice.

Cheers

[GoAround]

Revival!

Does anyone have any current gouge as to how the matching works for an airframe assuming you get picked up for Phoenix Reach (heavy aircraft crossflow)? Is it simultaneous to getting picked up by the board or does AFPC get the rank ordered list from the board then match according to aircraft availability, then ADP and your strat? I've known several tanker-to-tanker cross flows and was seeing if that was the exception to the rule or a common practice.

Cheers

The AMC Phoenix Horizon call for noms just came out. Included is the CONOPS. Your CC or his/her exec should have it. Also, you can get it from the AMC/A1 site via the AF Portal.

[Helo Kitty]

Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this, but my leadership is encouraging me to put in for Phoenix Horizon...

Does anyone have experience with this program or info in terms of duty locations? Does AMC have you TDY most of the time or are you stuck in one spot? The PDSM is a little vague and I'm looking for some more info before I discuss with my family.

[ThreeHoler]

Horizon includes Reach and Mobility. If you get Reach, you will crossflow into another AMC airframe. TDY rates will be whatever your new airframe's rates are. If you get Mobility, you will wind up in a CRW and be ground TDY a lot with very little flying (basically just enough to limp your gate months along).

[XL0901]

Anyone in the know on this? I'm in my last year of eligibility ('10 Capt) and my DAS is Nov '12. The PSDM says you must have at least 3 years TOS by 1 Oct 15 and previous program briefing slides are adamant that no TOS waivers will be granted. My understanding is that this requirement (and the change from 5 years of eligibility to 4) was to ease complications with school looks. Now that everyone's Majors boards ('09 Capt and beyond) are pushed back a year, is it really possible that I'll be ineligible since I'm 5 weeks short of the TOS restriction? Thoughts?

I've had this discussion with my leadership with no firm answer. Either way I'll apply and let the cards fall where they may...