Mexican Military incursion(s) into the United States

[Clark Griswold]

When in the hell are we going to actually protect our own country?

N4T Investigators: Rogue Mexican Army troops crossing the line

There are about 28,500 US military personnel in South Korea right now assisting in deterrance and defense of the 15th largest economy in the world that also has the 6th largest military (by AD personnel) with a 2.9 million reserve force and we have almost no US military actually stationed on and tasked to defend the southern border. Can we get at least half of that on our border?

One can dream though...

[theSituation]

This is why the A-10 shouldn't go away. Pretty quick flight from DM to the border.

[Steve Davies]

The British Army is now running border patrol?

And, by the looks of that picture, that's the WHOLE of the British Army, too.

[sky_king]

If Mexico reacted every time a student overshot OTULE on the Laughlin's Rio Recovery, WW III, IV and V would have been fought by now. Hell, I've logged a couple dozen trips across the Mexico ADIZ myself... mostly 4G turns to the north though.

[TreeA10]

During low level nav training, My A-10 IP: Are we invading Mexico?

Me: No. Why?

IP: You just flew across the border.

[Lawman]

I went to Flight School with a few Utah/Arizona guard guys at do Border Patrol as their civ job. From what hey describe talking about being on an island.

Think two dudes in a blazer or Tahoe driving around with just enough Ammo to start a fight and being sometimes hours from anyone that could be considered friendly. Dudes talked about rolling across groups of armed individuals at night and just letting it go because starting that fight was a guaranteed lose for them.

[Muscle2002]

During low level nav training, My A-10 IP: Are we invading Mexico?

Me: No. Why?

IP: You just flew across the border.

Border Patrol agents must have called in a TIC.

[Clark Griswold]

The border is more out of control than the public knows (civilian or military). CBP estimates they only catch maybe a 1/3 of the illegals crossing into the US (anecodotal from a 7 year CBP agent in the busiest sector on the border).

We are constantly told the lie that they are just people looking to do "work Americans can or won't do". That's bullshit and only a lie told by corporations and their political pawns who want a weak labor market and short sighted politicians who dream of getting 10+ million new voters.

No other country allows itself, that is the key phrase, allows its borders to be so weak when it has the resources it to secure it. It is criminal. Here's an example of one of the fine individuals just "looking for a better life" that violate our laws and are not supposed to be here.

Controversial Muslim cleric caught sneaking into U.S.

Does anyone really believe that any of our OCONUS missions really take precedence over securing our actual border? Tell me you don't think this guy sneaking in is just the tip of the iceberg...

Edited May 3, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[Naviguesser]

Credit where credit is due...I'm sure some of them are just trying to politely return our Fast and Furious guns...

[waveshaper]

Does anyone really believe that any of our OCONUS missions really take precedence over securing our actual border? Tell me you don't think this guy sneaking in is just the tip of the iceberg...

Wow, how things have changed on the Mexican border and in Mexico. Long ago me (+ others) spent mucho time TDY in Ajo

Arizona, with free weekends and little or no adult supervision. Our mission was to successfully sneak across the border

going the other way and head south. The preferred destination for weekend festivities was the beach town of Puerto

Penasco, Mexico. The mode of transportation was a USAF blue 4X4 6PAX. Back in the day this quaint little town had few

Americans present, we never ran into any criminal activities, the folks were friendly, and the beach/water was

outstanding. It pays to get to know/be friendly with the border guards on both sides.

[Clark Griswold]

Uh....yes? I would hope a military man, especially an officer, would understand that more than anyone.

So by your reasoning, securing and protecting our actual homeland can take a back seat to protecting South Korea? Because if there was a sudden spike in the usual carnage south of the border and suddenly a 200,000 Mexicans suddenly just pushed their way into San Diego, that would be no big deal?

Hundreds of Illegals storm California Border Patrol

Here's another little gem about how security on the border with Mexico should be a second thought.

Transnational gangs form alliance with Mexican cartel, becoming more sophisticated in trafficking drugs, guns, people

“A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation.”

President Ronald Reagan

[Clark Griswold]

Credit where credit is due...I'm sure some of them are just trying to politely return our Fast and Furious guns...

Maybe but why is ok to have their military on the border but if the US did the same that would be "militarization" and just unfair and wrong, we're having to fight this with one hand tied behind our back with a bunch of whiny, bed-wetting lawyers at the ACLU shovel out some BS to keep America from actually defending itself.

[hispeed7721]

Uh....yes? I would hope a military man, especially an officer, would understand that more than anyone.

YBGFSM...seriously? Please for the love of God explain why anyone, but to your point a military officer, would think that protecting another country is more important than protecting our own

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[Naviguesser]

Maybe but why is ok to have their military on the border but if the US did the same that would be "militarization" and just unfair and wrong, we're having to fight this with one hand tied behind our back with a bunch of whiny, bed-wetting lawyers at the ACLU shovel out some BS to keep America from actually defending itself.

My comment was meant to be sarcastic. I'm actually in total agreement with you. It's criminal to spend so much time and money (and blood) defending so many other countries with our military while leaving our own so open and vulnerable in the name of political correctness. On top of that, Washington has the balls to cut military funding and tell us to do "more with less" while fully funding entitlement programs and keeping the borders wide open. Has any other country in the history of mankind ever purposefully engaged in such self-destructive behavior? Serious question

[TrainerModel]

Clark Griswold....

Oh boy, how to put this.

Your posts remind me of the crazy emails my relatives spam my inbox with about how Hillary Clinton is overturning the 2nd Amendment and how Obama is a Muslim Kenyan etc.

[Clark Griswold]

My comment was meant to be sarcastic. I'm actually in total agreement with you. It's criminal to spend so much time and money (and blood) defending so many other countries with our military while leaving our own so open and vulnerable in the name of political correctness. On top of that, Washington has the balls to cut military funding and tell us to do "more with less" while fully funding entitlement programs and keeping the borders wide open. Has any other country in the history of mankind ever purposefully engaged in such self-destructive behavior? Serious question

Cool - answer to your question, not one that has maintained its position or survived intact. Great nations or empires commit suicide, not murdered.

Clark Griswold....

Oh boy, how to put this.

Your posts remind me of the crazy emails my relatives spam my inbox with about how Hillary Clinton is overturning the 2nd Amendment and how Obama is a Muslim Kenyan etc.

TrainerModel - so you it's all good on the border? No need to use our considerable COIN resources we've built up over the pas 10 years to secure the southern border? What's so tin foil hat about recognizing Mexico is not a failed state but a weak state or unwilling state and it is time to change the equation?

CIA And Pentagon Wonder: Could Mexico Implode? Edited May 4, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[Duff_Man]

So by your reasoning, securing and protecting our actual homeland can take a back seat to protecting South Korea? Because if there was a sudden spike in the usual carnage south of the border and suddenly a 200,000 Mexicans suddenly just pushed their way into San Diego, that would be no big deal?

Hundreds of Illegals storm California Border Patrol

Here's another little gem about how security on the border with Mexico should be a second thought.

Transnational gangs form alliance with Mexican cartel, becoming more sophisticated in trafficking drugs, guns, people

“A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation.”

President Ronald Reagan

Meh, they've got a Marine airbase in San Diego, so I think the great city of Ron Burgundy is safe from harm.

This does bring up a really interesting point though. The way I see it, people feel bad for illegal immigrants who sneak across the border in search of a better life (valid point), but rather than pressing the issue on the US Citizenship and Immigration Services to reform the US's stringent immigration policies so that people can legally come to this country for work and other legitimate reasons, they pressure the Feds to simply not defend the border. So now our border is a sieve while a full-on war between drug cartels armed with Army-grade weapons/equipment and the slightly corrupt Mexican government is raging right on the other side... Over drugs that are going into our country. I have a friend who grew up in Mexico and he won't go home, even to visit his family over the holidays, because the random murders and kidnappings have gotten out of control.

[Clark Griswold]

Meh, they've got a Marine airbase in San Diego, so I think the great city of Ron Burgundy is safe from harm.

This does bring up a really interesting point though. The way I see it, people feel bad for illegal immigrants who sneak across the border in search of a better life (valid point), but rather than pressing the issue on the US Citizenship and Immigration Services to reform the US's stringent immigration policies so that people can legally come to this country for work and other legitimate reasons, they pressure the Feds to simply not defend the border. So now our border is a sieve while a full-on war between drug cartels armed with Army-grade weapons/equipment and the slightly corrupt Mexican government is raging right on the other side... Over drugs that are going into our country. I have a friend who grew up in Mexico and he won't go home, even to visit his family over the holidays, because the random murders and kidnappings have gotten out of control.

The classy city of San Diego has managed to take control of the anarchy and has a real barrier, some problems but a huge improvement over the non-existant physical barriers we need in urban areas...

San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control

Some may incorrectly infer from my earlier posts that I hate Mexico/Mexicans and other people using Mexico as an easy point to cross illegally into 'Merica. Nothing could be further from the truth, President Calderon (previous President of Mexico) is a brave man and good leader who initiated the War on the Cartels that we have seen for the past few years. He has risked his personal safety and that of his family to save Mexico from becoming a failed narco-state (List of politicians killed in the Mexican Drug War). We should commend and assist Mexico in fighting this war, they should be if not the top foreign policy concern of the United States then priority 1.1 as they live next door and are our 3rd largest trading partner. I believe ultimately the best souther border for the US is stable and prosperous Mexico to the south but in the meantime, good fences make good neighbors so build the triple layer fences with vehicle barriers in urban areas, surveil high traffic areas and patrol the rural areas with the National Guard (Army and ANG).

A secure border (both North and South) with real port of entry security and visa control is just the start. If you don't arrest the employers, you'll never turn off the magnet that draws them here. You don't have to arrest all of them, just start making examples of a few. The first few agri-busiinesses that gets a 25 million dollar fine or construction company that gets shut down for 6 months and has its equipment siezed will begin to change the landscape.

Drugs and the huge demand for them causing border insecurity are another problem, separate but closely related to what irks me and I hope a growing majority about our criminal border security and immigration/employment enforcement.

[hispeed7721]

OCONUS missions take precedence over protecting our own border...protecting other countries (Which are OCONUS) is more important than protecting our own country (which is inside our border...see how this works?) Where exactly is the strawman?

And I never saw any mention of the military involved in the protection of our border, either in the original question from Clark or your snide answer to it. So again...why is our OCONUS mission more important than protecting our own border? In case you still don't understand, that question is larger than just the military and more of a US question, not just a US military question.

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[TreeA10]

I bet the Ukrainians wish they had been able to keep a neighboring different ethnic group out of their country now that the different ethnic group would rather identify with their mother country.

[Clark Griswold]

Do you realize that you're saying any mission outside the CONUS couldn't possibly protect America?

You just completely invalidated our participation in WW2 and OEF.

Think about that for a second.

We can do both, we have the technology... seriously though we can defend our border(s) and participate OCONUS as required... the focus will be confronting and deterring our near peer enemies and competitors but not ignoring significant problems on our doorstep, border security is not only an LE mission

[MD]

Do you realize that you're saying any mission outside the CONUS couldn't possibly protect America?

I don't think anyone is saying that at all.

What I read is that none of that force projection, $$$, deployments, defending other countries, meddling in X places overseas; makes less sense when we stupidly leave our own front door wide open to our country here. All because we don't have the political will to secure it, apart from the political lip service telling us it's "more secure than ever".

This country does need a serious look at its domestic as well as foreign policies, and where to modify and shift some of the same.

[hispeed7721]

Do you realize that you're saying any mission outside the CONUS couldn't possibly protect America?

You just completely invalidated our participation in WW2 and OEF.

Think about that for a second.

Really...really?? Who's making a strawman argument now? Quote me where I said "any mission outside CONUS couldn't possibly protect America". I said it's more important to protect our own country than to protect other countries. I know exactly what I wrote. Please read and actually understand what I wrote before making incorrect assertions.

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Edited May 6, 2014 by hispeed7721

[Clark Griswold]

More on National Guard on the border as we are discussing the pros/cons and whether there should be a US military mission on the border

Operation Jump Start, largest operation running from 2006 to 2008.

Operation Phalanx, the successor operation running from 2008 to 2011.

Operation Nimbus, last significant operation, running from 2011 to 2013.

Each one following Jump Start was a draw down with Nimbus being mainly air support. The ROE was so restrictive that it was an observe and report only mission pretty much with Jump Start and the follow on missions had few boots on the ground.

No matter as it has all rolled up now and Mexico has it's own problems too on its southern border with Guatemala, but they're building a fence.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[hispeed7721]

All your petty insults aside (which are a great tell btw), I'm not going to derail this thread to argue with you and go into a quoting war. Hopefully someone other than Joe can see what I was trying to get at

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