Vertigo Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 No, they keep the poor and working class of a first world nation from ever having anything by keeping wages artificially low by allowing corporations and wealthier individuals to employ people who work off the books, for less than legal wages in shitty conditions and who either bring with them problems, require gov assistance and keep our supposedly free market from balancing itself The free market only works if there is rule of law, turning a blind or apathetic eye to illegal immigration / unsecure borders is suicidal and knowingly employing illegals is no different than buying stolen goods. So you're in favor of raising the minimum wage then? To what tune? $10.10 or $15- those seem to be the two numbers I see most often being thrown around.
Clark Griswold Posted May 29, 2014 Author Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) So you're in favor of raising the minimum wage then? To what tune? $10.10 or $15- those seem to be the two numbers I see most often being thrown around. Yes, I think raising the minimum wage would be a good idea but I also think MASSIVELY simplifying our Orwellian tax code (both corporate & individual) while lowering the corporate tax and lowering the marginal rates for individuals are a good ideas also. Not exactly related, but could be politically possible to both labor and business oriented political actors but we can't get anything done anymore so put that in the snowball's chance in hell column... Your concept of economics is weird. If you have a cheap source of labor that is fulfilling needs and winning in competition with higher paid legal sources, then that is the free market at work. If the black market fulfills things the legal market cannot, then, like air and water, people will seek the path of least resistance. As it stands, people choose to employ millions upon millions of illegal immigrants despite your moral objections. This is America, and money talks -- people will flock to the cheaper option given a similar result/product. IMO, you simply haven't made the case to justify crushing the federal budget with even more expense just to fix this problem with solutions that most likely won't work. Nothing short of a literal genocide on the Rio Grande will fix the problem. Vertigo's suggestions just seem far more plausible. National policy can not be solely on what is beneficial to certain business interests, we had a war about this around the 1860's or so... there was a labor system that made a lot of people very rich directly by producing a commodity very cheaply and indirectly by supplying that commodity cheaply for production but we decided as a nation that it was not right and we weren't going to allow it anymore. Your right money talks and people flock to the cheaper option but does that mean we should allow: Goods produced by slave/child labor and/or sweatshop labor? Counterfeit or stolen goods produced and supplied illicitly? Goods produced from enemy nations to be freely traded in our economy? Should we allow Iran to directly supply the US energy market? Why do we control commerce and business on the national, state & local level? Should we let toxic waste dumps be put in the middle of low income neighborhoods because the land is cheaper? I also have to take issue with your idea that a genocide is required to secure the border and that it would be unbelievably expensive. Israel built a 143 mile fence system in two years for a cost of $377 million, it works and has dropped illegal crossing from 14,715 in 2010 to 36 in 2013 for the same stretch of the Sinai. We don't have to fence nor should be fence the entire border, we need only fence the adjoining urban areas, road crossings, and patrol with a combination of Federal & State LE in areas adjoining those areas, let the National Guard patrol the remote and wilderness area. The cost is not so great we can not afford it and it DIRECTLY adds to the security and sovereignty of the United States of America by keeping people out that are attempting to cross into it illegally. The combined cost of the CBP & ICE is $18 billion, that is equal to 2% of the entire DoD budget. It cost about $400K for every soldier to support & pay on average each soldier during the Iraq War, this is just a WAG but even at $200K per year to support & pay a soldier on the border, you could have 10,000 National Guardsmen for $2 billion or 0.2% of the DoD budget. That would average 5 soldiers for every mile of the 2,000 mile border but coordinating them with CBP, you have for a small cost in the overall scheme of things, actual boots on the ground in sufficient numbers to be in control. The ground and air support could average to $200K per soldier and you would still be spending only 0.4% of the entire DoD. Just to take another WAG at a part of the possible air support piece, you could have 25 MC-12s deployed to the border patrol mission, flying a 6 hour mission per day at a cost of $1,500 per flight hour (WAG) and cost $82 million per year for good ISR support, that is chump change in terms of the DoD budget and it would saturate high traffic areas with ISR to enhance your ground forces. Again, this is affordable, it is possible and it is what we should be doing. A border security system that is designed and funded to be effective does nothing more than stop illegal activity, if you have a problem with our labor & immigration laws then try to change them legally. Do not advocate for allowing illegal alien criminals, because they are criminals, to be allowed to keep committing their crime(s) by confusing the argument (whether or not we should defend our nation, enforce our laws and assert our sovereignty) by raising the red herring and emotional argument of it is cheap labor that benefits some businesses and individuals as being in some ways economically efficient so therefore, screw it let's allow it. The almighty dollar is not the end all be all of our decision making, it is a balance of what is right, prudent and in our long-term interest. Edited May 29, 2014 by Clark Griswold 1
Prozac Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 Better stop shopping at Walmart then. Shit, better just stop shopping anywhere. There is nothing moral about the global economy. Doesn't mean things can't improve, but you either live with that fact or wrap yourself in ignorance. Most of this country has chosen the latter btw.
M2 Posted May 29, 2014 Posted May 29, 2014 Not a good sign... ‘We Have Never Experienced This’: Chilling Drug Cartel-Style Threats Hit Texas Billboards Another reason for Operation Secure the Damn Border to go into high gear. Rumors (which are being denied) are that it was all a part of a publicity stunt. Got this out of a law enforcement report this morning... New information has been released indicating that the two alleged "narco billboards" posted in East Texas just before the start of Memorial Day were not likely associated with Mexican drug cartel activity. Instead, there has been speculation that they were actually posted by the New Era Canadian Film Company as part of a movie they are in the processing of producing (entitled Plata o Plomo and scheduled for release in 2016). However, when questioned about the billboards, New Era CEO Andrea Hidalgo made the following comment: "It is not something that I put up or I paid for, but this is something that I am completely and totally in support of." Hidalgo further added that a marketing campaign with similar artwork to that seen in the "Plato o Plomo" billboard will be used for marketing purposes prior to the release of the film. Here's the original article... Canadian film company denies involvement in disturbing El Paso billboards El Paso, TX (KTSM) — Hundreds of El Paso motorists were shocked to see a disturbing message on a billboard as they drove along I-10 early Thursday morning. The billboard read "Plata-O-Plomo," which in Spanish literally translates to 'Silver or Lead" is a Spanish slang that means take a bribe or suffer consequences. It has been commonly associated with the cartel violence in Juarez. The sign also had a mannequin, wearing a full business suit hanging from the billboard. The billboard appeared overnight near 9400 Gateway East, near Americas exit, facing the westbound lanes. It is directly above EF Building Materials. When called for comment on the billboard, EF Building Materials declined comment. Mike Mons, the General Manager with Lamar Billboard, the company that owns the sign is adamant that Lamar had nothing to do with the painting of the sign. Mons said that the sign was already painted black, and was being prepared for a new billboard. Crews last checked the sign at 4 pm Wednesday night. Mons said that the Lamar Billboard in question has lights that would have been on all night, illuminating the billboard, but to his knowledge, no one called to report anything unusual. El Paso Fire Department assisted with the removal of the mannequin from the billboard by 9:30 a.m. Mons said that Lamar Billboard will immediately paint over the sign as soon as El Paso Police conclude their investigation. El Paso Police report a 2nd billboard with a hanging mannequin was found alongside I-10 in East Central El Paso. According to a media release, the billboard, along the 5200 block of Gateway East had "Dying for Drugs" painted on it, as well as a hanging mannequin. EPPD officials went on to say, "The investigation is on-going, but we do not have any information to suggest this was done to target any individual person or business at this time." Meanwhile, a Canadian film company is denying involvement in the placement of two bizarre billboard messages along El Paso's freeway. New Era Films confirmed it is currently in the planning stages of a film titled Plata o Plumo. The same phrase, which roughly translates to "silver or lead" or "money or bullets," was found sprawled on a billboard along I-10 Thursday morning, along with a dangling mannequin dressed in a suit. "It is not something that I put up or I paid for," said New Era CEO Andrea Hidalgo. When asked whether she or someone from her company orchestrated the displays, Hidalgo said, "no," but added, "This is something that I am completely and totally in support of." Hidalgo said a marketing campaign with similar artwork, including the image of a hanging suited mannequin, has been planned worldwide ahead of the film's release, scheduled for 2016. Plata o Plomo, a fictional tale of drug cartel violence, is set along the El Paso-Juárez border. El Paso Police said those responsible for Thursday’s billboard displays could face, at a minimum, charges of criminal mischief and criminal trespass. Those charges could be upgraded, according to a Department spokesman. Video at the link.
Clark Griswold Posted May 30, 2014 Author Posted May 30, 2014 Just watched the video from the link, that is quite a stretch to believe the Canadian film company had nothing to do with it. When I first saw it, I decided to repost for the discussion but it reminded me of an article I read a while ago, the author made the case the Cartels will keep the mayhem in El Norte to an acceptable level and in Mexico to just below a threshold that would trigger a US response (military or direct LE involvement). I agree with that idea and it surprised me that they would start to invite a massive US security and LE response in the border areas. Still think a physical barrier and surveillance system with a NG mission on the border is what we need but glad that it appears to be a hoax.
Clark Griswold Posted June 27, 2014 Author Posted June 27, 2014 Mexican Military Helicopter Fires on Border Patrol Agents After Crossing Into U.S. During Drug Operation US, WORLD | Today at 9:46 | By Dave Urbanski Mexican Military Helicopter Fires on Border Patrol Agents After Crossing Into U.S. During Drug Operation A Mexican military helicopter crossed the U.S. border into Arizona and fired on U.S. Border Patrol agents during a drug operation Tuesday before flying back into Mexico, Border Patrol No injuries to agents or damage to U.S. property were reported, a Border Patrol spokesman said, according to KVOA-TV. The helicopter fired two shots at the agents early Tuesday morning as part of a "drug interdiction operation," Border Patrol spokesman Andy Adame told KVOA. "[A] Mexican law enforcement helicopter crossed approximately 100 yards north into Arizona nearly 8 miles southwest of the village of San Miguel on the Tohono O'odham Indian Nation while on a drug interdiction operation near the border," Adame said in a statement. "Two shots were fired from the helicopter but no injuries or damage to U.S. property were reported. The incident is currently under investigation." Mexican officials contacted U.S. authorities soon after and apologized for the incident, Tucson sector Border Patrol union president Art del Cueto told KVOA. The incident took place on the Tohono O'odham Nation, which resides in southern-central Arizona and parts of northern Mexico. From The Blaze Not good - another reason to formally control (with coordination with the Mexican gov) the borderhttps://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/06/27/mexican-military-helicopter-fires-on-border-patrol-agents-after-crossing-into-u-s-during-drug-operation/
HeloDude Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 What's crap is that they get to 'apologize' but yet we still have a Marine sitting in one of their Mexican prisons for something that should only require an 'apology'. 1
Clark Griswold Posted July 3, 2014 Author Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) God bless Charles Krauthammer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWTbRS0N-gk Full video here Edited July 3, 2014 by Clark Griswold 1
waveshaper Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 High-Caliber Gunfire Sends Border Patrol Scrambling on Rio Grande? .50 Cal suspected?https://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/20/cartels-suspected-as-high-caliber-gunfire-sends-border-patrol-scrambling-on-rio/?intcmp=trending
HeloDude Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 High-Caliber Gunfire Sends Border Patrol Scrambling on Rio Grande? .50 Cal suspected?https://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/20/cartels-suspected-as-high-caliber-gunfire-sends-border-patrol-scrambling-on-rio/?intcmp=trending Yeah, but you sourced foxnews, and they're racist...which now makes you and your post, racist. But seriously, I'd be cool with taking the Israeli approach on our southern border to fight the cartels. My minefield philosophy still works for me as well.
TreeA10 Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Multiple fences, barricades, minefield, and a moat with alligators with frickin' lasers on their heads. 1
Clark Griswold Posted July 20, 2014 Author Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Don't forget the army of Terminators shoulder to shoulder across the whole border Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited July 20, 2014 by Clark Griswold
TreeA10 Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Hot terminator chick version? Where do I send the money?
Clark Griswold Posted July 20, 2014 Author Posted July 20, 2014 Hot terminator chick version? Where do I send the money? Yup and the Fembots
StoleIt Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Hot terminator chick version? Where do I send the money? Does anyone have a Boarder Patrol or DHS application handy?
Vertigo Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I was a little young to fully appreciate Reagan's libertarian views on some things.https://youtu.be/Ixi9_cciy8w Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!
Clark Griswold Posted July 29, 2014 Author Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) Presidents Reagan and Bush were wrong. It is a surrender of sovereignty and explicit decay in the rule of law. No matter how well intentioned (supposedly) politicians and pundits say they are when speaking of the ultimate good intentions of most illegal immigrants (big supposition on their part) they are merely spouting sophistry on the road to being just another country where the rule of law is replaced by the rule of men, mobs or trends. Edited July 29, 2014 by Clark Griswold 1
Toasty Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Manning the border with physical resources is a waste of time/money. Buy some preds, put some guys on rotations in a trailer, and have a helicopter "QRF" on alert to respond to whatever the predators find. You'd only need a handful of staging bases in TX/AZ/NM/CA. Doesn't even need to be a military operation- just a "collect and deport" role. Hell, gather enough intel, and you might actual catch the coyotes and ring leaders and slow the pipelines. Stop putting Boomhower and Kletus behind the wheel of a GMC, expecting border security.
chim richalds Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 What are you going to do with that ISR on the border? The POTUS wants all these people to come in and be life long democrat voters, this debate is beyond fruitless until we elect people who actually value our culture and heritage. 1
hispeed7721 Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 What are you going to do with that ISR on the border? The POTUS wants all these people to come in and be life long democrat voters, this debate is beyond fruitless until we elect people who actually value our culture and heritage. You want America to actually be America? You're such a racist and a horrible person for thinking that way
Toasty Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) What are you going to do with that ISR on the border? The POTUS wants all these people to come in and be life long democrat voters, this debate is beyond fruitless until we elect people who actually value our culture and heritage. Right, how dare we allow a public vote and an electoral congress to select an educated American Christian to the Presidency. There's no way he represents anyone important. Edited July 31, 2014 by Toasty
HeloDude Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Right, how dare we allow a public vote and an electoral congress to select an educated American Christian to the Presidency. There's no way he represents anyone important. What's an 'electoral congress'?
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