Travis Air Show Crash

[Azimuth]

https://m.kcra.com/news/plane-crashes-at-travis-afb-air-show-in-fairfield/25806746

Apparently this was the performer:

https://www.eddieandreiniairshows.com

Edited May 4, 2014 by Azimuth

[jrobe]

Thoughts.and prayers

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[DEVIL]

Yea, I witnessed, looked non-standard from the beginning, very sad.

[JarheadBoom]

Always sad to see...

WARNING: Unpleasant images below.

Source

[ReferenceGround]

The local news is already criticizing the emergency crews. They have the first fire truck showing at the scene 3 1/2 minutes after the crash

[DEVIL]

The local news is already criticizing the emergency crews. They have the first fire truck showing at the scene 3 1/2 minutes after the crash

It definitely took longer than I thought it should have, and I have a background in Fire/EMS.

[Heater]

Gods speed...

https://www.mercurynews.com/ci_25696803/eddie-andreini-77-honored-half-moon-bay-stunt

Edited May 5, 2014 by Heater

[MD]

The local news is already criticizing the emergency crews. They have the first fire truck showing at the scene 3 1/2 minutes after the crash

Was a little longer than that. First RIV doesn't show for about another minute longer. Not good. Can't explain why there weren't posted vehicles, with the airshow ops going on.

[HuggyU2]

Can't explain why there weren't posted vehicles, with the airshow ops going on.

I've seen too many times where CFR is having a BBQ at the fire station, and kicking back watching the show with family, not even dressed out. Totally complacent. I'm hearing it was 5 minutes on the response, based on video/photo time stamps.

I wonder if they realize how survivable many crashes are, and how they need to arrive quickly to save someone from the fire.

I also have to wonder if mentally they are still thinking "large cargo aircraft" scenarios where they need to contain the fire.

If the trucks were behind the crowd line, without a straight shot to show center, then someone didn't THINK. They should probably have crews on each corner marker that are suited up and ready.

I'm eager to hear exactly what happened WRT the responders.

I am so saddened and furious at the same time.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Huggyu2

[MD]

I've seen too many times where CFR is having a BBQ at the fire station, and kicking back watching the show with family, not even dressed out. Totally complacent. I'm hearing it was 5 minutes on the response, based on video/photo time stamps.

I wonder if they realize how survivable many crashes are, and how they need to arrive quickly to save someone from the fire.

I also have to wonder if mentally they are still thinking "large cargo aircraft" scenarios where they need to contain the fire.

If the trucks were behind the crowd line, without a straight shot to show center, then someone didn't THINK. They should probably have crews on each corner marker that are suited up and ready.

I'm eager to hear exactly what happened WRT the responders.

I am so saddened and furious at the same time.

I'm very interested to know too.

In reference to the description of containment as a tactic; when it comes to TTPs, the mission of CFR is fairly simple: utilize suppression assets to either 1. Provide for an egress path out of the aircraft for survivors, or 2. Provide a rescue path for FFs to go in and extract those who aren't able to perform item #1. To that regard, actually putting the whole fire out is secondary to rescue; a close second, mind you, but secondary. Of course, this does have to do with larger aircraft and a fire involvement to a degree where spending precious resources fighting the actual fire, will take away from the 2 items I mentioned above. CFR trucks pump at a rate where their onboard supply is depleted in about 1-2 minutes, depending on gallonage and flow rate, and it takes time for the nurse tenders to get setup to replenish the primary CFR vehicles. That's why you see the tactics exercised in the way they are where it appears that its "only" containment.

That said, every CFR department trains in what tactics to use for different sized airframes, and every CFR department knows that flexibility is key (or should know). Every accident is responded to with haste consistent with safe arrival of the assets to the scene (more than one of these high-CG CFR trucks has suffered an accidental rollover during a hasty response to an aircraft emergency). BL is, a judgement call will always be made as to whether any post-crash fire can hit fast and put out with the supplies available prior to replenishment, or whether the above described tactics of supporting rescue first, and full suppression secondary, is more appropriate.

At an airshow, you can have "backup" or secondary trucks at the station, where the crews are lounging or watching the show or whatnot. However, those would be the structural trucks/crews, as well as the crash trucks which are designated as second-due to a call. That's no issue, and no problem; no different than day to day ops. However, there must still be a first due, and in this case of non-standard flying operations and most especially an airshow, that first due.......at least a rescue truck, and one or two crash trucks........should be posted up somewhere near show center, close enough to have an immediate response, yet not so close as to impede views of the crowd (this is fairly easy to do). While those crews don't necessarily need to be in full ready gear in its entirety, they need to at least be partially bunkered out, to the point where they can easily complete it enroute to the scene and be able to deploy at the ready once handline or rescue operations begin, depending on which unit they're assigned to.

The FAA standard (accepted standard) for CFR response on any airport where CFR is required (not required at all civil fields, only fields with scheduled or unscheduled air carrier service meeting certain pax numbers), is within 3 minutes, the first vehicle capable of fire suppression operations must be able to reach the midpoint of the furthest runway from the station. Hence why at larger airports, there are multiple stations. Within 4 minutes, supporting or second-due CFR vehicles are required to be arriving at the same point.

Why the response took as long as it did at SUU, I don't have that information yet. In that regard, my concern with this one isn't the tactical planning or ops on scene, it's the strategic planning or apparent lack thereof.

Edited May 6, 2014 by MD

[HuggyU2]

Myself and 2 others from Beale took a day off and flew to Half Moon Bay to attend Eddie's funeral. Saw another BODN pilot from Beale too who drove the 6 hour round trip to be there.

We arrived at the Catholic Church about 35 minutes early. We stood in line about 30 min and were turned away. They physically could not get anymore people in the church. I would estimate the crowd at 700-800. It was an unbelievable outpouring of love for Eddie.

There was a 4-ship of Mustangs that made 2 passes over the church after Mass. Low and fast.

He was a guy that went out of his way to make everyone smile. He was a friend and mentor to so many. He was a great entertainer, airshow pilot, and warbird owner.

He is missed.

[moosepileit]

A fitting post, thank you.

When I flew 800' card stuff after Charlie Hillard's loss in the Sea Fury- my mentor was his first baton pass partner in freefall.

CFR even at little shows was briefed to just lift the tail if they got to an inverted biplane. Anyone easily saved would then self-egress.

Knowing how his canopy was rigged, that video was searingly painful.

Tailwinds.

[Breckey]

Family is suing for $20M

The family of the veteran stunt pilot killed during an air show at Travis Air Force Base in May is seeking $20 million in damages from the federal government, claiming emergency crews did not respond quickly enough to free him from his burning aircraft.

Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/16/6561775/family-seeks-20-million-in-travis.html#storylink=cpy