So You're Getting Out...Why?

[nsplayr]

Per the VSP thread, I agree it's a good idea. Post all your FY14 & 15 VSP/TERA/PC/seperations lessons learned here.

The intent seems to be so that guys can speak somewhat directly to those leaders staying in so they in turn can better create an environment where buckets of experienced guys aren't trying to leave at the first opportunity.

I'm getting out soon (non-VSP or PC unfortunately) and will post my own contributions when I'm not on my phone.

Edited May 21, 2014 by nsplayr

[bucky60k]

I wanted to be an Air Force pilot my entire life and if you asked anyone that knew me back in AFROTC they would tell you I would stay in for a full career. However once I got into the "real" Air Force I found the focus in C-17s to be about anything but flying. I was never talked to by management about my last tactical approach but about how I was an "embarrassment" for not having my zippers zipped to the appropriate length etc. Thinking that it must be an AMC thing I headed over to T-6s to see if the grass was greener. However it was anything but. Regardless of how hard I worked as a USEM or Chief of Programming I was given second class treatment by our fighter centric management who were the castoffs from the F-15 community. Fear, sarcasm, and intimidation are their tactics in managing a squadron as I came to find out. They looked after their bro network and literally couldn't care about any of my goals or desires to become A PIT instructor FCF pilot you name it. The kicker was my squadron commander directly lied to my face about how I was not selected for 2+2 because of time on station when in reality he never pushed my application beyond the squadron level. I wish the next assignment would mean an improvement however seeing the calibre of the people the Air Force Deems fit for command leads me to believe that VSP is the best option for me

The Air Force has helped me out as an aviator in so many ways but it's time to move on with a new phase of my life where I decide who I want to work for, where I want to live and how I wish to live.

Edited May 21, 2014 by bucky60k

[Chuck17]

Thanks nsplayr -

Up to you guys to post and make it worth while - I know there is plenty in the "What's wrong with the AF" Thread too - looking for specific inputs on the "why" from the folks headed out.

Cheers!

Chuck

[stract]

spent 10 years as an HH-60G pilot. 3 ops assignments in a row, though I didn't get out for that reason, it was the 7 deployments that went with those 3 ops assignments. Would have had at least one more but for a medical issue shortly before we were supposed to go out the door. I was fine with that ops tempo until the last month of the 7th deployment, and suddenly, in that last 30 days, it was like I hit a wall. I was tired of being there, getting shot at, living in a mod/b-hut with 6 of my closest friends. I just got burned out in a community with an extremely high ops tempo.

Then at the end I had a couple years of not deploying and I realized just how much the USAF sucked away from me. I was tired of the queep, the bullshit that went along with it, deploying, getting shot at, losing friends, and ready to have some control over my life. So when my ADSC expired, I decided to punch. 12 years, 5 months, and 28 days. Clean break, no IRR or anything.

7 weeks ago I walked back into the squadron as a contract FCF pilot and Qual IP, and it's been an awesome feeling. I get to come into work every day and my primary job is to FLY (though it is a little feast or famine), and I don't have to worry about all the AD crap. A part of me is still proud that I'm indirectly contributing to the mission.

It's like a great weight was lifted from my shoulders, and I highly recommend it.

[stick]

I'll bite, even though I might have a few contrary opinions.

The Air Force didn't drive me out with their micro or macro personnel decisions, management actions or culture changes. I chose to get out because I'm ready re-assert control of where I live and where I spend each night, plain and simple. Flying has been fun at times and monotonous at others, but in the end, the benefits of a flying career don't outweigh the costs for me personally.

As far as the Air Force queep, I fully expect to find a new but different set of queep at whatever company eventually hires me. I don't believe the grass is really greener on any particular lawn, just different shades of green. The Air Force at least makes a rough attempt to establish a meritocracy, and gets it right a lot. (Flame on) There's a plethora of individual examples of the system not working, but in my decade in the Air Force, I never saw a suggestion for a better ranking system that truly made sense across the board. Objectively and subjectively grading people simultaneously is damn near impossible, but differentiation has to occur somehow. Unlike the civilian world, I wasn't looked down upon because I didn't go to an Ivy League college out of high school. I also never had to put up with the douche-bag son of the company president who's untouchable or the insufferable hot chick who's sleeping her way up the ladder. There's bullshit everywhere. The trick is to mentally rise above the mess and still perform.

I finally saw the light on my path about a year ago when I was thinking about the book The Five Love Languages. Since BODN is a macho-centric forum, I'll spare everyone the intricate details, but if you really want to learn more about how you personally relate to others, read the book. My top three methods of connection required me to be in the presence of the other people who meant something to me. So I finally realized I would be an idiot to pursue a civilian aviation career or continue in the military, as I'm guaranteed to be absent from "home" and the people I care for at least half of my life in either pursuit. Why would I knowingly accept a situation where I know I personally don't thrive?

So in the end I gave up my promotion and school slot and I'm punching. I'm studying for the GMAT now and I'll go to the highest tier business school that will admit me and then I'm moving back to my home state. I'll still be running just as hard as I was in uniform, just in different directions and I'll have the backing of a community that remains stable. I'll finally mentally stretch out and form real roots. Can't wait...

In closing, I actually don't understand all of the "congratulations" people are passing around. I'm glad those who got VSP got what they wanted, but we haven't "accomplished" anything more than those who didn't get VSP. We got lucky. Lucky that big blue needs to downsize now and lucky that our names were picked from the hat. As much as I'm excited to control my own destiny again, I also can't shake the feeling that I'm quitting and leaving my country's service before my agreed-upon obligation is fulfilled. I will accomplish something someday (hopefully soon) that warrants a "congratulations" but I don't feel like accepting the VSP falls into that category. (again, flame on)

[Hollow]

Unlike the civilian world, I wasn't looked down upon because I didn't go to an Ivy League college out of high school. I also never had to put up with the douche-bag son of the company president who's untouchable or the insufferable hot chick who's sleeping her way up the ladder.

Really? Conversation heard everywhere: "Where did you commission? The Academy. What squad were you in?"

Instant bro club in a lot of places. And hot chick sleeping up the ladder? Seen it more than once. Just a lengthier process...and the liberal use of the word hot.

[Dubs]

I'll give it a go. Hopefully this post is pretty succinct.

There's a lot of stuff I don't like/agree with about our USAF, but in reality I'm mainly getting out for two reasons:

1) I'm not the type of person that likes to stagnate in life, but if there was one word that I could use to describe my USAF "career", it would in fact be "stagnation". I can't honestly look at myself in the mirror and say that I'm okay with my sub-mediocre career and let the next 13 years of my life be wasted just to make it to retirement.

2) I want control of my life again. My biggest takeaway from my time in the military is that our time on this planet is in fact limited and it is precious, so don't waste it.

As much as I actually am running for the exit, I am proud to have been a part of the operational arm of this organization and thankful that I was able to make direct contributions to some of the biggest events in our time... but I am definitely looking forward to the next chapter of my life.

[pawnman]

Really? Conversation heard everywhere: "Where did you commission? The Academy. What squad were you in?"

Instant bro club in a lot of places. And hot chick sleeping up the ladder? Seen it more than once. Just a lengthier process...and the liberal use of the word hot.

I've heard the conversation, but I've rarely seen commissioning source used as a discriminator for promotion or upgrade.

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

I haven't either. But when did the bro network become a bad thing? What's wrong with building relationships based on a common interest or background? Some call it networking. I live on a small base, but I know every academy grad from O-1 to O-6. A bunch of my friends are also pilots. And I have drinking buddies. And cigar aficionados.

[Chutdoggin]

I know every academy grad from O-1 to O-6.

Manchester? Edited May 23, 2014 by Chutdoggin

[10percenttruth]

Really? Conversation heard everywhere: "Where did you commission? The Academy/XX State/U of X. What squad were you in/did you go to X restaurant/were you on X team/ X frat?"

FIFY

It's called networking, & it happens regardless of where you went to school. There may have been an elitist academy mafia back in the day, but that was a long damn time ago.

[Champ Kind]

Didn't take long for this thread to come off the rails...

[albertschu]

... 7 deployments .. burned out in a community.. extremely high ops tempo.

... just how much the USAF sucked away from me. ... tired of the queep, the bullshit that went along with it, ...

7 weeks ago I walked back into the squadron as a contract FCF pilot and Qual IP, and it's been an awesome feeling. I get to come into work every day and my primary job is to FLY (though it is a little feast or famine), and I don't have to worry about all the AD crap. A part of me is still proud that I'm indirectly contributing to the mission.

It's like a great weight was lifted from my shoulders, and I highly recommend it.

I'm not blaming you for working the system to your advantage--kudos! But this is a big driver in what is wrong with the system. We hire contractors because the are "cheaper" and more "efficient", we don't give them the queep or have them deploy. This means fewer AD guys to do the queep and deployments. That make the contractors look even more efficient because they aren't doing the queep. If a squadron were 50% contractors and 50% AD, the AD would get 100% of the queep and << 50% of the flying. The response from the Pentagon is more contractors AND more queep. The result is an AD force that is burnt out from deployments and feed up with queep.

Not contracting out these positions would give the opportunity to catch their breath between deployments and would spread the queep thinner.

Also they need to send less queep.

[stract]

well FCF is very tedious work, and HH-60s have had contract FCF for over 10 years now, at the larger units. I just lucked into it because right after I went on terminal one of the dudes at my base decided to move on, and I was asked if I was interested. And our contract DOES include the provision to deploy, though no one's done it recently. The other pilot in the office deployed twice under the contract with the unit.

ETC: words

Edited May 26, 2014 by stract

[noumenon]

In closing, I actually don't understand all of the "congratulations" people are passing around.

Stick,

I'm congratulating you for having the courage to punch despite being on the "path." You made your mind up, followed your convictions, and it worked out. You will be missed brodimir putin, take her easy.

[Ram]

Didn't take long for this thread to come off the rails...

www.baseopsandsportbitching.net

Edited May 24, 2014 by Ram

[albertschu]

well FCF is queep in and of itself, very tedious work, and HH-60s have had contract FCF for over 10 years now, at the larger units. I just lucked into it because right after I went on terminal one of the dudes at my base decided to move on, and I was asked if I was interested. And our contract DOES include the provision to deploy, though no one's done it recently. The other pilot in the office deployed twice under the contract with the unit.

You separated because you were burnt out from deployments and tired of the queep, so you took a job that you are saying is entirely queep and still has a chance to deploy. Congratulations.

[Azimuth]

Except she can say "no."

[stract]

You separated because you were burnt out from deployments and tired of the queep, so you took a job that you are saying is entirely queep and still has a chance to deploy. Congratulations.

I chose the wrong word to describe FCF. FCFing is very detailed, and it IS about the little things, but the difference is those little things matter. It's not senseless bureaucratic nonsense.

[Breckey]

Tail rotor vibe checks and main rotor track and balance may be tedious but it's a lot less queepy then making sure the correct UEM posters are in the squadron and that the staff meeting slides are updated. Plus when it gets released you have actually accomplished something rather than making a stoplight chart green.

[hindsight2020]

How's the EMS job market for rotorheads? I hear the pay is crappy coming down from the govt teet. Otherwise I'd think that kind of work would have a high level of job satisfaction (again if it wasn't for the pay). Offshore-shuttling people I hear pays bueno, with accompanying roughneck 14 on 14 off schedules. It's probably a more lasting job than EMS outfits though.

No queep. Yep, we all wish.

[2xAGM114]

Volunteered (to avoid ALO) for 3 year Alpha tour in Preds with the verbal promise of AC and base of choice on the return.

5 1/2 years later I was still at Pred base #1 asking when I could go back to flying. A PCS to Pred base #2 was all they were giving out. TAMI21 guys and other late arrivals to Pred had priority over my year group to go back to flying.

After 7 years in Preds, I "scored" a MC12 gig which at least got me current flying again. Separated at 11 years, 8 months, 6 days because I wanted to fly again more than anything.

I'm happy with the guard, love the flying and the jet, and no lack of pay days to be had.

[Skitzo]

Volunteered (to avoid ALO) for 3 year Alpha tour in Preds with the verbal promise of AC and base of choice on the return.

5 1/2 years later I was still at Pred base #1 asking when I could go back to flying. A PCS to Pred base #2 was all they were giving out. TAMI21 guys and other late arrivals to Pred had priority over my year group to go back to flying.

After 7 years in Preds, I "scored" a MC12 gig which at least got me current flying again. Separated at 11 years, 8 months, 6 days because I wanted to fly again more than anything.

I'm happy with the guard, love the flying and the jet, and no lack of pay days to be had.

Damn. Where was the ALO gig to?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stract]

How's the EMS job market for rotorheads? I hear the pay is crappy coming down from the govt teet. Otherwise I'd think that kind of work would have a high level of job satisfaction (again if it wasn't for the pay). Offshore-shuttling people I hear pays bueno, with accompanying roughneck 14 on 14 off schedules. It's probably a more lasting job than EMS outfits though.

No queep. Yep, we all wish.

EMS is always looking for pilots, especially those with lots of NVG time. Pay is pretty crappy $65k ish, tho if you're also raking in retirement pay/VA disability pay that may make up the difference. 7 on 7 off.

GOM pays about $85k, plus extras for per diem, being Instrument rated, etc. If you don't want to live in places like Houma, LA, you have to fork over out of pocket to get to work from wherever you live. Personally I wasn't interested in this lifestyle, as I would be away from home for 2 weeks every 2 weeks, wash rinse repeat.

[Breckey]

What about USFS? They're not as plentiful but seem to have a better lifestyle