So You're Getting Out...Why?

[B52gator]

Just reading this thread makes me wonder where the time has gone. I've been out for six years (my career was going nowhere...self-induced...but that's another story) and the only thing I miss are the guys and the flying. I don't miss much else and the experiences I had flying and with my fellow crew dogs is what I'm most proud of. As much as I hated sitting on a frozen gel pad on an ejection seat, beating up the pattern for 2 hours, and the smell of fart, puke, stale coffee, and JP8 sitting in the bowels of the Mighty BUFF, I do miss the camaraderie and the shudder the jet makes when the iron is dropped. Fortunately I transitioned into a career where the caliber (hard worker, high speed, mission oriented, drunkard, bullshitter, ball buster, skirt chaser, etc.) of co-worker is pretty much the same. I still have a lot of friends who are in, and from hearing their stories and reading stories here, I wonder had things gone better for me if I would have got out at this point. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who are pretty happy with Big Blue right now, it seems like things have really gone down hill the past couple of years. I don't fault guys either way for getting out or staying in. You have to do what is best for you, you are your own seat commander, when it's time to go it's time to go.

[Striper_WSO]

drunkard, bullshitter, ball buster, skirt chaser, etc.) of co-worker is pretty much the same.

What career is this?

[B52gator]

What career is this?

Firefighter

[busdriver]

Firefighter

That checks, my brother is a firefighter.

[ThreeHoler]

That checks, my brother is a firefighter.

He puts out fires? Edited May 28, 2014 by ThreeHoler

[TreeA10]

Was his sister Sal a firemans gal?

[jcj]

That checks, my brother is a firefighter.

Did it when I was young, before med school. It was awesome.

[MD]

Firefighter

That checks, my brother is a firefighter.

Like the AF though, a lot of FDs are cracking down on that also, as they seek to avoid harassment lawsuits.

[airline_guy]

Three reasons why I wanted out and applied for VSP:

1) I've never wanted a career in the military. Since I was a kid, I've always wanted to fly. And an airline career has always been appealing to me. However, I never had the money to afford to go to an aviation school and pay for all the certificates and experience needed to reach the level of airline job quality. So, joining the Air Force to get the flying experience I needed was a stepping stone to help me in acquiring my dream job with the airlines.

2) There is a massive movement of experienced pilots that has just begun and I believe will continue for the next 10 years or so. Most airlines are about to experience a mass exodus of experienced captains because of the new retirement age and I would love to catch the front end of this great hiring spree that is just now starting to gather momentum. The sooner I can get in front of this tidal wave, the quicker I can move through seniority. When the airlines just started hiring last year, I was worried that by the time my ADSC commitment was up I'd miss the hiring spree and never have the chance to achieve my dream of being an airline captain. The opportunity to VSP is perfect timing for me to get out of the Air Force before my 10 yr commitment is up right when the airlines are on an upswing.

3) Queep. I hate it. Like I said before, I've never wanted a career in the Air Force. I just want to fly. And while I enjoyed my time in the air and didn't mind doing my time with deployments, I hated the fact that none of that mattered to Big Blue. What senior leadership cared most about on my OPR's were how many squadron parties I planned, or if the WG/CC thought I was the perfect paper pusher, or if I spent additional, precious free time that I did have with my family pursuing a masters degree that would never do me any good other than provide a good bullet. When I went to GRACC at Scott, the first thing some career advocating major told all of us was that my flying accomplishments didn't matter; in order to compete and stand above the rest, the Air Force was more interested in how much more queep I could accomplish than my peers. No thanks. That's not for me. I just want to get paid a lot of money to fly airplanes. No more, and no less.

[Seriously]

He puts out fires?

Was his sister Sal a firemans gal?

What does she put out?

[hindsight2020]

This is perfect for a wannabe super-SNAP like me.

1. I've wanted a military aviation career; not interested in the airlines. I might change my mind some day...

2. Glad to see the exodus has begun around this time; better chances of me getting selected.

3. I've put up with enlisted queep for a few years, I'll deal with it at its amplified levels.

I just want to look cool

1. You will change your mind. It's a mere function of time and life stage. Don't fret it. The young ones want to fly helos these days after MWS day out of UPT because they don't want to get "stuck in an airframe that doesn't see action". Nothing has changed much in that regard from 50 years ago. The crusty majors and above roll their eyes and welcome a family-friendly PCS duty location, or conversely 7-day opt in order to save their families in the absence of one. The two archetypes were the same person at one moment in time, bear in mind. You will be no different unless you opt out of a family, which is perfectly fine too.

2. You're misunderstanding the exodus. Just like the retirement of the baby boomers, job replacement will not occur on a one for one basis. The jobs are GOING AWAY. The 11F shortage is an 11F head count (sts) shortage for 11F coded staff jobs, NOT an 11F cockpit shortage (i.e. false advertisement). Ergo, there is NO net vacating spot for you to jump into. You're competing for less jobs, which makes your desires MORE competitive. It's not impossible, but watching all this experience leave is not leaving you with more opportunity merely because you feel willing to go where the ones before you are running away from. Understand this difference for your own sake. It will lessen the disappointment.

3. You'll quickly come to chastise your own statement. I know you're being flippant, but you really have no concept of how old queep gets. It is fundamentally defining in the career of a flying officer, that his flying duties, in paper listed as primary duties, are in effect tertiary duties after he pins on O-3. You will not escape that (there is no WO program in the AF). The closest you will get to attain such an outcome is to be a Guard/Reservist and deal with just getting to do it on a part-time basis (even full time reserve guys are being fired too, for your SA). Understand what this means. This means they'll pay you to not get to do what you're willing to sell your soul for in order to get to do in the first place. You will reject that construct in due time, like most of those before you, and again come to chastise your own words.

Look, none of this has to be accompanied by a moral adjudication either. Some kool-aid drinkers could say airline_guy is a shitbag for having such an openly disdainful attitude (by proxy) for which he took an officer oath that had nothing to do with flying airplanes. Others (myself included) would view such means to an end as an admittedly apathetic but par for the course answer in an organization that's bigger than the kool aid drinker, myself or airline_guy's, and certainly an organization who doesn't care one flying fuck about me, airline_guy or even the kool-aid drinker.

The only truth I know is to keep doing something until it stops making sense or you get fired. Words I live by and it's kept me sane. What makes you a SNAP is not that you think you're willing to do things others are not (you're not btw), what makes you a SNAP is that you foresee yourself as immune from these dynamics by simpleton attitude. You're not immune and you will find out. Whether that transition is a fluid one or a life-embittering one largely depends on how much common wisdom and free internet advice you're willing to accept or dismiss today. Good luck to you either way and thank you for your service.

[FlyinGrunt]

hindsight nails it again. I'm pretty bitter myself. BUT:

1. I'm about ready to accept "leadership`s" direct and implied advice: that my services are no longer needed. I'm a salty (before my years), profane, hard-drinking, skirt-chasing gunship guy, and whether or not I agree with it, I'm not the decision authority on retaining folks like me.

2. I firmly believe that when the s**t hits the fan, and IT WILL in the next 10 years, "leadership" will be begging for folks like me and those who taught me (who, I might add, are 300% the pilots, ACs, and badass warriors that I could hope to be!) And it won't just be an AC-130: "combat" experience will be highly sought after for every airframe in the AF.

3. But, in the meantime, someone has to keep the lights on. SNAPs may be themselves, and talk out of their 3rd points of contact, but if my dire predictions come true, they will be ADOs in the squadrons we will be recalled to join. Let's hope their passion extends to technical and tactical expertise, because we will need their knowledge when we come back, voluntarily or otherwise.

And in case my message was not clear, ask Rainman what the Russians intend to do to anything east of Berlin. Or Pappy Boyington what the Red Chinese intend. Ladies and gentlemen, everything that was old is new again, and I assure you that the geopolitical struggle between states is not dead. History will again repeat itself, largely because we, as Americans, are too stupid and ignorant to see the cycle coming . . .

[Smokin]

This is perfect for a wannabe super-SNAP like me.

2. Glad to see the exodus has begun around this time; better chances of me getting selected.

Like Hindsight said, I know you're being flippant; but if there is anything young guys (even more so than the GOs) should be scared shitless about, it is a mass exodus of the experienced line IP type. I'm sure it is true of other airframes, but in a fighter squadron the line IP has a huge impact on the squadron in terms of the squadron pilots being survivable and lethal. The squadron patch is only one dude and these days it is not uncommon for him to be the ONLY patch in the squadron. It is the line IP that keeps the squadron up to the standards the patch and SQ/CC set. With so many dudes punching at the 12 year point, the AF is losing a huge amount of experience that is only gained 1.5 hours at a time over the course of multiple operational assignments. With the loss of this experience, other pilots are losing the opportunity to gain vicariously from this experience and will end up making the same (occasionally fatal) mistakes regaining some of that experience.

This is the AF that you are going to inherit if you end up making it that far. When guys who know far more about the situation than you do are really worried, it is probably not the time to be the flippant SNAP saying you're glad to see the opportunity.

[Fuzz]

Smokin, I for one hate to see the these experienced IPs leave and am concerned for the future of our community, although I'm happy for these guys. I know that people will step up and fill the void, but you can't entirely fill the void when you don't have 12 years of combat experience that we are loosing. All the guys that play punched at my base were very experienced IPs and Lead Airdroppers.

[Vice]

Like Hindsight said, I know you're being flippant; but if there is anything young guys (even more so than the GOs) should be scared shitless about, it is a mass exodus of the experienced line IP type. I'm sure it is true of other airframes, but in a fighter squadron the line IP has a huge impact on the squadron in terms of the squadron pilots being survivable and lethal. The squadron patch is only one dude and these days it is not uncommon for him to be the ONLY patch in the squadron. It is the line IP that keeps the squadron up to the standards the patch and SQ/CC set. With so many dudes punching at the 12 year point, the AF is losing a huge amount of experience that is only gained 1.5 hours at a time over the course of multiple operational assignments. With the loss of this experience, other pilots are losing the opportunity to gain vicariously from this experience and will end up making the same (occasionally fatal) mistakes regaining some of that experience.

This is the AF that you are going to inherit if you end up making it that far. When guys who know far more about the situation than you do are really worried, it is probably not the time to be the flippant SNAP saying you're glad to see the opportunity.

Emphasis added. I was under the impression that a bunch of guys were leaving giving new ones an opportunity to replace them. I didn't know the actual positions were being cut as well.

Anyway, at this point in my career the most I can do is monitor the situation and do well in college.

Now that I know that there may be an issue with there not being as many experienced guys to mentor me effectively, what's stopping me from reaching out to those who are out and grabbing a beer with them? I'm sure they'll be able to tell me certain things that someone still in wouldn't be able to...

[ThreeHoler]

Know when to keep your mouth shut...

[Vice]

Know when to keep your mouth shut...

Edited June 4, 2014 by Vice

[czecksikhs]

HOT TASKERs!!!!!!

Managers like this

And this

Big Blue was a great place to start out earning a good living while doing some cool flying, but the scale tipped in favor of bullshit somewhere along the way. I am loving life as a part timer. That said, the AF is as it was and always will be. It'll survive this "gutting" just fine, just like it did after the Gulf War and the 2006 VSP.

[Spinner]

Managers like this

DB #1

DB #2

Even though you speak the truth, I hate you for posting those two links. Edited May 31, 2014 by Spinner

[GoAround]

Even though you speak the truth, I hate you for posting those two links.

There's actually 3 DB's in those 2 links...Hanson is an uber douche.

[HercDude]

Well at least we aren't firing all the good commanders in that community and promoting the pepper grinders.....

[MechGov]

I left LRF right after the he took command, but the few stories I've heard aren't flattering. Although I did have the "privelage" of running into CZ again at Maxwell. My response when he starts spinning yarns about the Herk or just being himself was, "he may technically be one of ours but we don't claim him"

Czecksihks and hindsight speak the truth

[ElLoco]

HOT TASKERs!!!!!!

Managers like this

And this

Big Blue was a great place to start out earning a good living while doing some cool flying, but the scale tipped in favor of bullshit somewhere along the way. I am loving life as a part timer. That said, the AF is as it was and always will be. It'll survive this "gutting" just fine, just like it did after the Gulf War and the 2006 VSP.

Even the term manager would be a little much in these cases.

[Azimuth]

Rat is in his own category.

[BattleRattle]

Rat is in his own category.

Stories please?