Border crisis

[RASH]

Yet you're still here...

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[Buddy Spike]

As entertaining as this thread is, the casual suggestions jokingly thrown about where we just simply start killing illegal border crossers doesn't seem so joking and casual when it comes up like 10 different times. It's like being around a bunch of guys who start making a few too many racial jokes and you start to wonder about the quality of the company you keep.

[magnetfreezer]

As entertaining as this thread is, the casual suggestions jokingly thrown about where we just simply start killing illegal border crossers doesn't seem so joking and casual when it comes up like 10 different times. It's like being around a bunch of guys who start making a few too many racial jokes and you start to wonder about the quality of the company you keep.

Nothing racist about it. Plenty of countries have mines or free fire zones along the border. As long as it's marked or recognized it's fine (prisons have electric/razor fences that are marked as such and people avoid climbing them).

[338skybolt]

Nothing racist about it. Plenty of countries have mines or free fire zones along the border. As long as it's marked or recognized it's fine (prisons have electric/razor fences that are marked as such and people avoid climbing them).

Labeling doesn't fit the liberal "everyone's a victim" narrative.

[Winchester]

Methods including but not limited to containment fires, non lethal devices aka micro waves, and red lines painted on airfields seem to work pretty well conveying the reality of consequence IMO.

[HeloDude]

I like to think of it as visiting the zoo.

I think it's because you like being around the company of pilots...don't worry about it, I was once the same way. Before I was a pilot, I looked up to and wanted to be in the company of military pilots. By the way, any pilot or flying questions you may have, just ask away!!

You're welcome!!

[HeloDude]

Let's try to keep this convo on topic and avoid thread trolling due to weird unexplained internet grudges.

Says the guy who brings the 'racism' card into the discussion...that has nothing to do with race.

[magnetfreezer]

Let's try to keep this convo on topic and avoid thread trolling due to weird unexplained internet grudges.

I didn't mean to imply anything was racist, it was simply a metaphor. I would just hope that the character of this nation would be above that of the actions that you typically see from prisons and third world autocratic dictatorships. Casual disregard of human life seems commonplace when it comes to finding a permanent "solution" to the Mexican "problem".

Works in the Falklands: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Falklands-Minefield.JPG. The Statue of Liberty is a good analogy. She was built atop Ellis Island, a single entry point where legal immigration could occur and appropriately screened people will be let in. With clear warnings against crossing the border in the "danger zones" between legal crossings, the lethal/nonlethal measures will deter unauthorized infiltration (can't tell the difference between a family, a drug smuggler, or an AQ operative if crossing is uncontrolled). Authorized crossing points can be established where authorized individuals can cross and non-authorized individuals can petition/apply for access.

The military and corporations with secure facilities do the same every day. Perimeter deterrence (often potentially lethal in the case of razor/electric wire or armed guards) funnels all entry to authorized points. Dangerous measures are appropriately marked and isolated so that they require an affirmative action (climbing the fence, etc) to injure, removing any excuse/blame for injury. Those "inside the circle of trust" (citizens/green card holders/etc) can be let in at the border crossing upon verification/customs screening. Those not inside the circle will have to go to the "visitor center" (consulate?) to apply for screening and a "visitors badge" (visa).

[matmacwc]

As entertaining as this thread is, the casual suggestions jokingly thrown about where we just simply start killing illegal border crossers doesn't seem so joking and casual when it comes up like 10 different times. It's like being around a bunch of guys who start making a few too many racial jokes and you start to wonder about the quality of the company you keep.

Let's adopt Mexicos immigration policy, discuss that.

And we shouldn't kill anyone BTW.

Edited July 23, 2014 by matmacwc

[sqwatch]

Says the guy who brings the 'racism' card into the discussion...that has nothing to do with race.

Give the guy a break. If you had last month's overdue staff summary sheet still sitting on your desk and barely enough time to squeeze in a CGOC meeting during your two hour lunch break, you'd need a place to vent too.

[Nineline]

Actually, I didn't bring race into it. I used a metaphor. At no point did I ever come close to implying that the xenophobia was racially based. I was actually using the example to compare a similar level of discomfort with thinly veiled xenophobia. Would a metaphor using antisemitism, sexism, or homophobia be more to your liking?

Why you gotta be throwing out all those dissertation-like big words? Didn't you hear that the CSAF said we shouldn't concern ourselves with a graduate degree until O-6? How many O-6+ officers do you think you're preaching to here? If it isn't a familiar word in the 11-2 series of AFIs or 60:1 rule math based problem, I'm probably not going to understand your point. (Truth be told, I probably won't understand the 60:1 math rule problem either.)

You know what'll be more to my liking? Having a discussion where you acknowledge that your ideals have problems too.

-9-

Edited July 24, 2014 by Nineline

[Vertigo]

In the past you enjoyed pointing out Israel as the example in terms of homosexuals openly serving and recently with the Bergdahl swap...but for some reason you stop using them as the example when it comes to border security?

Israel surprised by number, sophistication of Gaza tunnels

[StoleIt]

Israel surprised by number, sophistication of Gaza tunnels

Guess their border plan is an unmitigated failure then. I eagerly await them to tear down their walls, fences, and checkpoints since they are obviously not doing anything to prevent illegal immigration...oh wait...

[Clark Griswold]

Israel surprised by number, sophistication of Gaza tunnels

Move

Counter Move

Jerusalem - Israeli Engineers Test Hi-tech Tunnel Detection System Tested On Hamas Tunnel Network

No doubt that it is a problem but just because a problem is difficult doesn't mean the solution is to give up.

[SurelySerious]

The Solution to Border Disorder: The best antidote to illegal immigration is a functioning system of legal immigration

By Jeb Bush And

Clint Bolick

Finally, preventing similar crises in the future begins with making our immigration system fair and effective now. A chief reason so many people are entering through the back door, so to speak, is that the front door is shut.

Unlike every other country, we do not have an immigration system as much as we have a family-reunification system. Nearly two-thirds of the one million lawful immigrants admitted into the U.S. each year do so through family preferences. That means that unless someone seeking to immigrate has a relative in America or can squeeze into the relative handful of available work-related or asylum visas, the only way they can enter is illegally.

The best antidote to illegal immigration is a functioning system of legal immigration. We must rebuild one that is economically driven—for example, looking for those whose skills and drive will make a difference—in our national interest and true to our immigrant heritage.

[HeloDude]

Actually, I didn't bring race into it. I used a metaphor. At no point did I ever come close to implying that the xenophobia was racially based. I was actually using the example to compare a similar level of discomfort with thinly veiled xenophobia. Would a metaphor using antisemitism, sexism, or homophobia be more to your liking?

So because I don't approve of person X breaking the law when they illegally cross the border, then I must have a problem (or as you say, 'discomfort') because of the pure fact that they're from a different country? Have you worked with people from different countries? I know many of my fellow aircrew have, but since you're not aircrew I'm not sure...sorry, I digress. Well, if you haven't that's ok, but I have--and it was truly an awesome experience (every time, and I have done this on many different levels and occasions). So what's this thing about xenophobia?

Do I have a fear of people coming here illegally (or legally forbthat matter) and getting on the government dole (becoming more of a taker than a maker) and contributing to the shitty situation of our welfare state? Yes, that does frighten me, because there has to eventually be a breaking point, and if there wasn't going to ever be one, then we could all go on welfare and live like kings. As I have said, end the welfare state, and I'll be all about open immigration...as long as they're documented like rest of us.

So no, I dont have a fear of people from other countries, just like the other personal attributes you mentioned (race, creed, gender, sexuality) don't give me any concern either. But it's cool man...keep using your 'metaphors', they're quite enlightening. The fellow aircrew on here appreciate the non-aircrew guys (like yourself) trying to impress us.

[HU&W]

Maxwell AFB is being considered for housing illegal immigrant children.

Link

[Grady]

The Solution to Border Disorder: The best antidote to illegal immigration is a functioning system of legal immigration

" economical driven" is simply another way of saying cheap skilled labor from the 3rd world. Companies like Bank of America are lobbying hard to open the flood gates of skilled labor visas. If you don't believe me there is an entire apartment complex in Charlotte full of computer analyst that are contracted by the Ta Ta corporation from India. They bring these people over for 6 months at a time, cram 6-8 in an apartment, and pay them 1/3 of what they used to pay a skilled American worker.

Both political parties are an abysmal failure. Democrats what to turn these people into a future constituency, the republicans want to appease the cheap labor lobby who want to exploit them for cheap labor. Here's another fun fact, culturally Hispanic aliens vote for whoever is giving out the bacon in their own countries. They are not, as a voting block, value voters.

Pat Buchanan has made the most articulate argument regarding this issue. He is absolutely correct when he says that America is no longer a country, but rather a "geographical expression" when you take into consideration the apathetic response to the current invasion.

[Clark Griswold]

LEAKED CBP REPORT SHOWS ENTIRE WORLD EXPLOITING OPEN US BORDER

Information slowly filtering out on the sovereignty and security crisis.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[MD]

They're all just poor people looking for work, right? These are just in this past week, but you won't hear about them from the federal government or the national news, as they don't fit the narrative of "...the border is more secure than ever". So people outside these areas generally won't hear the truth of the war going on in our own backyard......well, not their backyards.

But hey......great idea to just let them all in unchecked, like some want to do. We obviously won't get any undersirables or criminals here, will we?

Mariel boatlift, anyone? Mexico is taking that page out of Castro's playbook brilliantly.

https://www.krgv.com/news/2-charged-in-off-duty-agent-s-death/

https://www.krgv.com/news/2-accused-of-assaulting-border-patrol-agent/

[Clark Griswold]

They're all just poor people looking for work, right? These are just in this past week, but you won't hear about them from the federal government or the national news, as they don't fit the narrative of "...the border is more secure than ever". So people outside these areas generally won't hear the truth of the war going on in our own backyard......well, not their backyards.

But hey......great idea to just let them all in unchecked, like some want to do. We obviously won't get any undersirables or criminals here, will we?

Mariel boatlift, anyone? Mexico is taking that page out of Castro's playbook brilliantly.

https://www.krgv.com/news/2-charged-in-off-duty-agent-s-death/

https://www.krgv.com/news/2-accused-of-assaulting-border-patrol-agent/

Yep - I am sure some are not bad except for breaking our immigration laws and illegally crossing our border but when you see multiple reports like these:

Exclusive: Border Patrol Warns MS-13 Using Nogales Processing Center as Recruitment Hub

Violent gang taking advantage of immigration crisis, using border as recruiting hub

something has got to change.

Keeping up the mantra:

Fences & barriers where necessary, Guardsmen patrolling with more CBP agents, ICE agents investigating illegal employment and reforming immigration policy and procedures.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[Clark Griswold]

Illegal Aliens Storm the Beach in San Diego, Second Attempt Thwarted

[matmacwc]

We all know better, where is Joe1234 to defend the invasion?

[Mark1]

Illegal Aliens Storm the Beach in San Diego, Second Attempt Thwarted

Nothing a trillion dollar fence can't fix. Oh, wait....

[Clark Griswold]

Nothing a trillion dollar fence can't fix. Oh, wait....

I assume you meant billion and not trillion. But if you think border fences in the right place can't solve illegal immigration / illegal border crossings tell that to Israel and San Diego.

San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control

From the article:

Before the fence was built, all that separated that stretch of Mexico from California was a single strand of cable that demarcated the international border.

...

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

Does the fence stop all illegal crossings? No but it dramatically curtails it and forces illegal crossings out into difficult terrain where it would be easier to catch or deter them, that area would be heavily patrolled by a new CBP / NG mission.

Another little gem about border fences: Does a Border Fence Work? Check Out the Dramatic Change After Israel Put One Up

For $377 million (probably the true cost of one F-35) they put up a 143 mile security system (fences, cameras, lights, patrol roads) and cut illegal crossings by +99%.

I am not advocating for a 2000 mile fence system across the entire border, that is unnecessary. But what is needed is strategic fencing in adjoining urban areas, along major highways leaving from the border between international and internal checkpoints, manpower to secure those areas and the resources to patrol the wilderness areas.

Are we ever going to stop all illegal immigration? No, of course not but if we reduce it to a trickle then you could have a much better debate and then action / reform on the nexus of border security, immigration policy, policy on illegal immigrants in the USA and work visas for foreign workers / illegal employment of illegal aliens. The debate never moves forward because one side (correctly with the historical evidence of inaction following the 1986 amnesty of President Reagan) knows that if they concede anything the other side will NEVER secure the border or enforce immigration laws, they will allow in more illegal aliens, try to legalize them and get them to vote thus ensuring the other side's political demise.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Clark Griswold