Does Flight in CZTE Area = AFTO 781 Combat Time?

[GearMonkey]

Anyone know the correlation between transiting an IRS approved CZTE area and logging AFTO 781 combat or combat support time? I recently overflew the Red Sea but didn't land in any of the usual AOR locales. Do I get to log this?

I asked the SARM folks but they fed me a line about having to takeoff or land at an airfield in the combat zone. They also said there was a list of approved ICAOs but couldn't produce the list when I asked for it (big surprise!). I know their takeoff/landing line is bullshit since I've logged tons of combat time while overflying Iraq on the way from ETAR to OTBH or vice versa.

[FLY6584]

For what it's worth we get the Tax Free as soon as we land at the Deid, but we don't start logging Combat sorties unless we fly into Afghanistan. If for some reason we break halfway to Afghanistan and have to turn back we do not log that as a Combat sortie.

[Jaded]

Does combat time logged matter for anything? Who cares how many combat hours you have?

[ThreeHoler]

Flight over the appropriate land mass (in this case, Afghanistan) May be logged as combat time for the entire duration of flight regardless of where it took off or landed.

Flight in the other geographic areas defined by executive order or Congress count as combat support.

[GearMonkey]

Does combat time logged matter for anything? Who cares how many combat hours you have?

Nope.

Nobody.

Just trying to understand the system.

[HossHarris]

Anyone know the correlation between transiting an IRS approved CZTE area and logging AFTO 781 combat or combat support time? I recently overflew the Red Sea but didn't land in any of the usual AOR locales. Do I get to log this?

I asked the SARM folks but they fed me a line about having to takeoff or land at an airfield in the combat zone. They also said there was a list of approved ICAOs but couldn't produce the list when I asked for it (big surprise!). I know their takeoff/landing line is bullshit since I've logged tons of combat time while overflying Iraq on the way from ETAR to OTBH or vice versa.

Czte does not equal combat time.

Czte areas are designated by executive order, not Irs or mil.

(Flew for a year in Egypt around the Red Sea, plenty of Czte, no combat or combat support time).

[Murph]

Does combat time logged matter for anything? Who cares how many combat hours you have?

Funniest thing I've seen on baseops in a long time.

[GearMonkey]

Thanks Ginger.

Seems like the IRS/Executive might want to clean up the CZTE areas/requirements a bit. Why give a tax free for unrelated operations in mostly long-cold combat zones? The Red Sea, parts of the Med, Kosovo, etc.

[tac airlifter]

Thanks Ginger.

Seems like the IRS/Executive might want to clean up the CZTE areas/requirements a bit. Why give a tax free for unrelated operations in mostly long-cold combat zones? The Red Sea, parts of the Med, Kosovo, etc.

Yup, concur. Conversely, we're also engaging and killing the enemy in places where we aren't authorized CZTE. The whole system is a mess.

[Swizzle]

Reference your missoin symbol as well...the msn symbol "translated" into plain english normal specifies what you're supporting (i.e. "combat forces" IAW AFI 11-401 para 3.3.6 and sub-paragraphs) and gives a clue, not definitively mind you, as to what you should log. Like previously said reference hostile airspace as well.

[yankeetango]

Here's your reference for which areas get you tax free, but only Afghanistan is a true combat zone (for the time being).

https://www.irs.gov/uac/Combat-Zones

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[chim richalds]

I'm pretty sure the only reason combat hours are logged are for fighter guys to see who's been actually doing the mission and who hasn't. For amc folks they are beyond pointless/worthless/stupid.

[ThreeHoler]

I'm pretty sure the only reason combat hours are logged are for fighter guys to see who's been actually doing the mission and who hasn't. For amc folks they are beyond pointless/worthless/stupid.

For those of us who were flying in the early days, were shot at or those we know who were hit, would differ on that opinion.

[Jaded]

Isn't that exactly the point though? Because combat hours where you are shot at are logged the same as burning holes in the sky over Iraq, combat hours have become marginalized and meaningless (like air medals.)

[chim richalds]

I've been shot at too 3hole, but since I have a different opinion than you I guess I don't have a say in this. You have a bright future in the Democratic party.

Edited July 11, 2014 by chim richalds

[contraildash]

It depends on who/what your mission was supporting. We had this issue in Europe, in particular with the Kosovo QHDA. Crews would claim tax free because their flight plan would take them through the airspace over the Adriatic even though their mission had nothing to do with that AOR.

According to the IRS (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p3/ar02.html):

Nonqualifying Presence in Combat Zone

None of the following types of military service qualify as service in a combat zone.

• Presence in a combat zone while on leave from a duty station located outside the combat zone.

• Passage over or through a combat zone during a trip between two points that are outside a combat zone.

• Presence in a combat zone solely for your personal convenience.

That said, DoDI 1340.25 states that if you qualify for HFP/IDP then you can claim it. Also, the HFP/IDP entitlement must be directly related to military operations in the CZ or QHDA.

For the past few years you no longer get a months worth of tax free, only the days served within the CZ or QHDA. This cut down on lots of units taking missions that started at the end of one month and finished at the beginning of the next (two months tax free for 2 days work).

[Homestar]

CZTE is not the same thing as HFIDP. You can still get two months of CZTE for two days of work. But HFIDP is now prorated.

[chim richalds]

In ww2, men prayed to get to 30 or whatever it was bomber missions to go home. Today we plan trips to get 2 tax frees at once. I think we've strayed pretty far from that generation.

[SurelySerious]

In ww2, men prayed to get to 30 or whatever it was bomber missions to go home. Today we plan trips to get 2 tax frees at once. I think we've strayed pretty far from that generation.

Most of it is the environment. No one is being asked to go through terribly difficult air defenses, like WWII, right now. If we were, our aircrew would respond and do what was needed; the focus would quickly move away from that.