spotmaxdog Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 Do U pilots tend to stay at Hurlburt long term or does the command like to shuffle aircrew between Hurlburt and Cannon? Also what kind of follow on assignment is there from gunships? Nobody could tell us that during our assignment brief. AFSOC seems like a black hole (or hotel california),we didn't have anyone with firsthand experience there to brief us.
hispeed7721 Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 People used to be on a fairly predictable swap b/w Hurlburt and Cannon, but with the shutdown of the H, there hasn't been a whole lot of it. Yes, some people have gone to the W but it doesn't seem like that will be the norm (at least for now), especially with the J on the horizon...once that is full up it'll probably be back to swapping guys from on location to another. Follow on is kind of weird, just because of the uniqueness of AFSOC in that respect. Most of the guys I know just move around Hurlburt to different areas of the HQ, unless you want to leave and go do a staff tour somewhere. That's an area where I definitely don't know a whole lot, it's all just observations so take that with a grain of salt. Some of the guys that grew up in AFSOC complain about how awful it is; having spent some time elsewhere, I think AFSOC is the best place to be hands down. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Chicken Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 People used to be on a fairly predictable swap b/w Hurlburt and Cannon, but with the shutdown of the H, there hasn't been a whole lot of it. Yes, some people have gone to the W but it doesn't seem like that will be the norm (at least for now), especially with the J on the horizon...once that is full up it'll probably be back to swapping guys from on location to another. Follow on is kind of weird, just because of the uniqueness of AFSOC in that respect. Most of the guys I know just move around Hurlburt to different areas of the HQ, unless you want to leave and go do a staff tour somewhere. That's an area where I definitely don't know a whole lot, it's all just observations so take that with a grain of salt. Some of the guys that grew up in AFSOC complain about how awful it is; having spent some time elsewhere, I think AFSOC is the best place to be hands down. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk J On the horizon.. yea 6+ years from now. As for this entire discussion... you need to choose job satisfaction vs location. I turned down U-28s to HRT for the W at Cannon. Initially I wanted either the H or U badly. Since I have been with the W I have turned down the U....at a better location. Talk to guys who actually fly both airframes.. and when I say talk I don't mean on the ing internet. Your crew position makes a difference as well.. for CSOs/FCOs/NAVs...whatever. Would you rather control the gun.. hit the button to fire.. or tell someone to do it?
hispeed7721 Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 J On the horizon.. yea 6+ years from now. I'd like to think it will be sooner than that, but who knows with the way things have been goingSince I have been with the W I have turned down the U Honest question, why did you want to stay on the W with a chance to go to the U? I can't, while admittedly biased, can't see any reason to do so Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Harpy Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 Honest question, why did you want to stay on the W with a chance to go to the U? I can't, while admittedly biased, can't see any reason to do so Think this was answered here... Would you rather control the gun.. hit the button to fire.. or tell someone to do it?
olevelo Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 There's also something satisfying about tracking a moving target with the sensor/laser, and then watch it explode thanks to the pickle you did sometime before. 1
hispeed7721 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Think this was answered here... Except that statement applies more (at the very least equally) to the U than the W WRT the pilot...hence my question Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere's also something satisfying about tracking a moving target with the sensor/laser, and then watch it explode thanks to the pickle you did sometime before. Which is exactly what happens on both U and W (obviously different weapons/means)...which again, is why I asked the question I did If it's because of the different munitions, that's fine...just was hoping to hear from someone who actually had the opportunity to cross and didn't Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited March 28, 2015 by hispeed7721
Chicken Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Except that statement applies more (at the very least equally) to the U than the W WRT the pilot...hence my question Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Which is exactly what happens on both U and W (obviously different weapons/means)...which again, is why I asked the question I did If it's because of the different munitions, that's fine...just was hoping to hear from someone who actually had the opportunity to cross and didn't Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So I have never been on the U or H sadly... as much as I wanted it since 2001 it never manifested.. so I can't speak for specific experiences on either platform. I was offered the opportunity to fly on the W when it was mobility.. and seen it move to what it is today and what it will be in a few years. That being said.. I love the fact I control the gun.. when the pilot says "gun consent on" and the tree is green.. it's me controlling the gun..shooting the gun and laying waste to ISIS/TALIBAN living my modern warfare fantasies out in real life. Additionally, the PGW is sexy in itself.. hitting a guy on the chest/ass gets more reaction in the JOC than any ballistic round will....typically.
nsplayr Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Except that statement applies more (at the very least equally) to the U than the W WRT the pilot...hence my question Pretty sure Chicken is a CSO on the W if that's not already clear. I'd rather be a CSO on the W vs the U-boat as well FWIW...for that crew position it's a better deal based on knowing guys who do both. Can't say I've done it myself on either platform so YMMV I guess. Although I have do question Chicken's overall judgement choosing the Wombat over the mighty U-28... Edited March 28, 2015 by nsplayr 1
Chicken Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Pretty sure Chicken is a CSO on the W if that's not already clear. I'd rather be a CSO on the W vs the U-boat as well FWIW...for that crew position it's a better deal based on knowing guys who do both. Can't say I've done it myself on either platform so YMMV I guess. Although I have do question Chicken's overall judgement choosing the Wombat over the mighty U-28... Not sure if serious as mush as I wanted to be a navy seal of the sky... Edited March 28, 2015 by Chicken 4
Winchester Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 I'd like to think it will be sooner than that, but who knows with the way things have been goingHonest question, why did you want to stay on the W with a chance to go to the U? I can't, while admittedly biased, can't see any reason to do so Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Nice snow globe you live in. I know at a minimum 12 people at Cannon that refused to touch the 4th with a ten foot pole. Now guys are getting forced to. Weird. The U must be so awesome... At least it may soon be with a new commander....
Mark1 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Has nothing to do with the MWS and everything to do with the unit itself, and I don't blame them. I'd have made the same call.
hispeed7721 Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Pretty sure Chicken is a CSO on the W if that's not already clear.That checks, and I'm not sure I would disagree from that standpoint. From the pilot seat there isnt any way I'd chose a W over a U though . Nice snow globe you live in. I know at a minimum 12 people at Cannon that refused to touch the 4th with a ten foot pole. Now guys are getting forced to. Weird. The U must be so awesome... At least it may soon be with a new commander.... That's totally fine and not that it really matters but I know plenty of people (let's just use a minimum of 12) who have turned down the opportunity to leave in order to stay in the 4th...different people have different experiences. My time in the 4th has been awesome, both the MWS and the unit in general. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited March 28, 2015 by hispeed7721
ClearedHot Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 The Gunpig community has made a living of tearing ourselves apart, first the hatred between the 16th and the 4th, then everyone looking at the 73rd with the stink eye and now a rift between the Whiskey and the Spooky. Because of this distraction we let the Pavelows and some Talons rule the world. Through some miracle we have successive gunship AFSOC/CC's and we are still fighting. I wonder how the dynamic will be when the entire fleet is AC-130J's, with everyone in the exact same platform will we just look for other reasons to argue and hate each other. The 4th is about to get a fantastic leader, motivated by good rather than hubris, the J is on track...every new platform has issues, but good men and women are working very hard to fix those issues and I personally believe we are back on track. JHMCS or a comparable HUD solution is on the way and will change the employment dynamic...for the good, the 105MM will round out capabilities especially in the close fight, and other solutions are well underway. The J with a 30MM, 105MM, SDB, GRIFFIN, and Hellfire will bring a lot of hurt and choices to the battlefield. Stop and look around young Jedis, a gunship guy is in charge right now but there is rising tide of acidic senior leadership from outside the gunship community, put these petty differences behind you and focus on the future. 8
Winchester Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) That checks, and I'm not sure I would disagree from that standpoint. From the pilot seat there isnt any way I'd chose a W over a U though That's totally fine and not that it really matters but I know plenty of people (let's just use a minimum of 12) who have turned down the opportunity to leave in order to stay in the 4th...different people have different experiences. My time in the 4th has been awesome, both the MWS and the unit in general. Edited March 28, 2015 by Winchester
tac airlifter Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 CH, has AFSOC always had the rift between strike and mobility?
DirkDiggler Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 The Gunpig community has made a living of tearing ourselves apart, first the hatred between the 16th and the 4th, then everyone looking at the 73rd with the stink eye and now a rift between the Whiskey and the Spooky. Because of this distraction we let the Pavelows and some Talons rule the world. Through some miracle we have successive gunship AFSOC/CC's and we are still fighting. I wonder how the dynamic will be when the entire fleet is AC-130J's, with everyone in the exact same platform will we just look for other reasons to argue and hate each other. The 4th is about to get a fantastic leader, motivated by good rather than hubris, the J is on track...every new platform has issues, but good men and women are working very hard to fix those issues and I personally believe we are back on track. JHMCS or a comparable HUD solution is on the way and will change the employment dynamic...for the good, the 105MM will round out capabilities especially in the close fight, and other solutions are well underway. The J with a 30MM, 105MM, SDB, GRIFFIN, and Hellfire will bring a lot of hurt and choices to the battlefield. Stop and look around young Jedis, a gunship guy is in charge right now but there is rising tide of acidic senior leadership from outside the gunship community, put these petty differences behind you and focus on the future. I'm not sure Fiel was really a legit member of any tribe. Honestly curious as to where you see a rise of acidic leadership?
Cooter Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) The Gunpig community has made a living of tearing ourselves apart, first the hatred between the 16th and the 4th, then everyone looking at the 73rd with the stink eye and now a rift between the Whiskey and the Spooky. Because of this distraction we let the Pavelows and some Talons rule the world. Through some miracle we have successive gunship AFSOC/CC's and we are still fighting. I wonder how the dynamic will be when the entire fleet is AC-130J's, with everyone in the exact same platform will we just look for other reasons to argue and hate each other. The 4th is about to get a fantastic leader, motivated by good rather than hubris, the J is on track...every new platform has issues, but good men and women are working very hard to fix those issues and I personally believe we are back on track. JHMCS or a comparable HUD solution is on the way and will change the employment dynamic...for the good, the 105MM will round out capabilities especially in the close fight, and other solutions are well underway. The J with a 30MM, 105MM, SDB, GRIFFIN, and Hellfire will bring a lot of hurt and choices to the battlefield. Stop and look around young Jedis, a gunship guy is in charge right now but there is rising tide of acidic senior leadership from outside the gunship community, put these petty differences behind you and focus on the future. CH You're right guys will bitch regardless. We bitched when we split the U-28's and again when we spawned a third squadron in Cannondahar. If it's not one thing it's another. I'm interested to see what happens under current leadership being that ground has to be made up from previous leaderships "oversight(?)". I have little hope for small airplane hopes/dreams so it will be interesting to see how we are treated. As for the future...i guess we'll see what happens, I'll just grit my teeth and push on. Being at HQ currently I get to see some of the shenanigans, and if it's taught me one thing...staff is not for me! I'm requesting VFR back to ops after school. I want nothing to do with all the BS anymore. Cooter Edited March 29, 2015 by Cooter
ATIS Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) CH, has AFSOC always had the rift between strike and mobility? Heck, you should have seen the first days of the U-28. I wasn't even in your service and I was stuck in that shit-show with the "White Silver Tornado". Good leadership made all the difference. Cheers ATIS Edit: hair color Edited March 30, 2015 by ATIS
nsplayr Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Honestly curious as to where you see a rise of acidic leadership? Slife. 1
DirkDiggler Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Slife. Checks, however, he's not in AFSOC/SOCOM at the moment, hopefully will not come back.
kaleb283 Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Anyone have insight on how long one can expect to be at Hurlburt if they get U's? AC and MC's are on our drop sheet, and info on the U seems a little scarce. I'd like to hear a little more about U's if possible.
Mark1 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Anyone have insight on how long one can expect to be at Hurlburt if they get U's? AC and MC's are on our drop sheet, and info on the U seems a little scarce. I'd like to hear a little more about U's if possible. I'm out of the loop so definitely wait for somebody with current info to weigh in, but the answer to your question is, it depends. If you played all your angles right and got a little lucky, you could potentially spend your entire career there minus maybe a staff tour. Before Cannon became a thing, that wasn't all that unusual. Now it's most likely that you wouldn't be able to pull that off, but still not impossible. 4SOS --> WIC Instructor --> 18th Flight Test --> Staff --> Command might be a viable route, but everything would have to fall into place. I'd say the best anybody is going to be able to do is give you a minimum expectation. My guess would be 3 years. ~8mo training and a little over 2 years flying the line before you could expect to begin to show up on radar for crossflow elsewhere. That's not to say that you will crossflow at that juncture, just that you might. Keep in mind that once you're into AFSOC you have options between different AFSOC entities, but it is nearly impossible to be released to other MAJCOMs. If you have your heart set on flying an ACC or AMC asset at some point during your career, go there first and look to transition to AFSOC later. The other way around is generally not an option. 1
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