Technician Discussion (aka Wing XP Technician)

[jcollins]

You are correct, you have to serve 5 years as a civilian to qualify for a FERS retirement. Any time you buy back doesn't count toward getting you that 5 years and qualifying you for a FERS retirement. You can't walk in off the street, buy back 5 years and then immediately qualify for a retirement. I don't have the reference as it's buried somewhere in the byzantine OPM regulations - contact your state HRO and they should be able to provide it.

[lloyd christmas]

Does anyone have any experience in transferring from a Wing in one State to another Wing in another State?   I'm currently a technician and am considering applying for a job in another State.  

[nunya]

Guard to Guard?

[lloyd christmas]

Yep

[herkbum]

We've had numerous transfer to us. What's your question?

[lloyd christmas]

It seems hard enough just getting someone hired on full time.  At least it is through our HRO folks...  I'm just wondering if there are any stumbling blocks to watch out for or common issues when moving to another wing.  

[herkbum]

It seems like it has gone smoothly for our guys. Once they were released by their original unit, we were able to gain them immediately. Also seemed to be the case with a recent USAFR transfer. Now, the Navy transfers have been pretty drawn out. Usually tied to issues of cutting the AO. Not exactly sure why.

[amcflyboy]

Guard units talk on a regular basis.  Be careful because there could be guys who can find out if you're bailing, and drop a dime on you. Happens a lot here in the Northeast!

[herkbum]

Guard units talk on a regular basis.  Be careful because there could be guys who can find out if you're bailing, and drop a dime on you. Happens a lot here in the Northeast!

We definitely check the bro network

[lloyd christmas]

Guard units talk on a regular basis.  Be careful because there could be guys who can find out if you're bailing, and drop a dime on you. Happens a lot here in the Northeast!

I have tried to do it right.  I have sat down with my commander and let him know my plans, that way they can plan accordingly.  

[amcflyboy]

 

We definitely check the bro network

which is not necessarily a good thing. In my opinion, it violates military equal opportunity.  Had a few friends who tried to change units, and their bosses hosed them behind their backs for no reason.  

Flame away.

[herkbum]

which is not necessarily a good thing. In my opinion, it violates military equal opportunity.  Had a few friends who tried to change units, and their bosses hosed them behind their backs for no reason.  

Flame away.

So you want to hire folks strictly off a piece of paper and a 1 hr interview?

[cadetpilot]

Most aircraft mechanics can make a lot of money compared to some careers, but only if the right steps are taken. Most aircraft mechanics can make a lot of money compared to some careers, but only if the right steps are taken.

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Searched, cannot find a solid answer (also asking around my unit...)

 

Going from long-tour AGR to a Federal Technician, my Tri-Care prime cuts out on my orders end date, my civilian insurance won't take effect until roughly 30-days after that at the earliest (enrollment, etc)

What's the standard method for keeping healthcare coverage? I can't see any way AGR to Technician is covered under TAMP, and I was told I'm not allowed to carry Tri-Care Reserve/Select since I'll be immediately hired as a federal technician.

[12xu2a3x3]

i had the same thing happen to me, to reserve/select since i was already a WG, just had to have to insurance until the blue cross kicked in.

[VMFA187]

I've been told I'm being considered for an ART position in an airframe I would enjoy - Is the discussion about buyback and 5 years of service as an ART still accurate for retirement? Seems like a great way to balance retirement and getting a line number with the airlines after I'll have 11 years of active service and 5 years as an ART if so.

[GlassEmpty]

Looking at a TDART position and the hiring process in general. I have a few questions. I have a lot of prior-e aircrew experience and feel that should be taken into consideration for my hiring quals.

I applied for a position when I had less than 750 hours, which by the TDART system allows me to be a GS-9. Without Sim time, I currently now have the GS-11 Mins. With Sim time, I have the GS-12 mins, also, I'll have the GS-12 mins by new years. The HR reps at my base have told me they have to start the process all over to take these hours into consideration. The move was to either decline the GS-9 step 1 offer, let them re-advertise and try to hire me as a GS-11 (Which could take 3+ months), or accept, wait 90 days. Get the GS-11 bump, then the next pay period, get the bump to 12. At the moment, I've accepted the GS-9 level but haven't finalized the start date.

Here is what I'm hoping to have answered. Is there a chance for backdating considering that I have the hours at the time of hire? Why is the wait for GS-9 to GS-11 90 days, but the wait to 12 just one pay period (I assume that means 14 days)? At no time has negotiation ever been really on the table. Can I try and negotiate a step? And at what level is that authorization allowed? Reason being, I feel getting a GS-9 Step 5 which is roughly the same pay as a GS-11 Step 1 would be a fair trade considering the qualifications I possess at the time of starting meet that pay level.

Any thoughts or critiques are appreciate.

[Gazmo]

Looking at a TDART position and the hiring process in general. I have a few questions. I have a lot of prior-e aircrew experience and feel that should be taken into consideration for my hiring quals.

I applied for a position when I had less than 750 hours, which by the TDART system allows me to be a GS-9. Without Sim time, I currently now have the GS-11 Mins. With Sim time, I have the GS-12 mins, also, I'll have the GS-12 mins by new years. The HR reps at my base have told me they have to start the process all over to take these hours into consideration. The move was to either decline the GS-9 step 1 offer, let them re-advertise and try to hire me as a GS-11 (Which could take 3+ months), or accept, wait 90 days. Get the GS-11 bump, then the next pay period, get the bump to 12. At the moment, I've accepted the GS-9 level but haven't finalized the start date.

Here is what I'm hoping to have answered. Is there a chance for backdating considering that I have the hours at the time of hire? Why is the wait for GS-9 to GS-11 90 days, but the wait to 12 just one pay period (I assume that means 14 days)? At no time has negotiation ever been really on the table. Can I try and negotiate a step? And at what level is that authorization allowed? Reason being, I feel getting a GS-9 Step 5 which is roughly the same pay as a GS-11 Step 1 would be a fair trade considering the qualifications I possess at the time of starting meet that pay level.

Any thoughts or critiques are appreciate.

Are you a pilot? This is a temp-ART position, correct? Is this ANG or Reserves? I find there are a lot of inconsistencies in the HR's between the two and even amongst different airframes/units in the same branch. I really don't get. It all spells disfunction at the NGB/MAJCOM level.

 

We hire all pilot ART's as GS-13's; even temps. There was a "short-lived" point in time when HR used to make us hire anything less than an IP as a GS-12. GS-9 thru 11?! YGTBSM! Your standard "Admin Officer" position in the ANG is a GS-11 thru GS-13 depending on the requirements. Most of them are at least 12's.

 

At this time of mass-pilot-exodus on the full-time side of the ARC, I cannot fathom the mentality of hiring someone less than an 11 or 12. Even a copilot. The sooner you get a young'n seeing those "big" LES's as a 13, the less time he spends (in the short term) comparing his GS-9 salary to the regionals.

 

[matmacwc]

There is also an ART bonus that turns out pretty close to an AGR bonus.  I don't think prior-e experience would be a factor in hiring at a higher GS level, but thats just me.

[GlassEmpty]

Are you a pilot? This is a temp-ART position, correct? Is this ANG or Reserves? I find there are a lot of inconsistencies in the HR's between the two and even amongst different airframes/units in the same branch. I really don't get. It all spells disfunction at the NGB/MAJCOM level. 
We hire all pilot ART's as GS-13's; even temps.

I agree, very inconsistent. I haven't sought the programs of the ANG but even Reserve Wing to a Reserve Wing has major differences and it's frustrating. It leads to "grass is greener" mentality and doesn't seem best for retention.

I'm a pilot and Reservist to answer your question.

There was a "short-lived" point in time when HR used to make us hire anything less than an IP as a GS-12. GS-9 thru 11?! YGTBSM! Your standard "Admin Officer" position in the ANG is a GS-11 thru GS-13 depending on the requirements. Most of them are at least 12's.
 
At this time of mass-pilot-exodus on the full-time side of the ARC, I cannot fathom the mentality of hiring someone less than an 11 or 12. Even a copilot.

Great minds think alike, but I've always wanted to stay humble and say I don't know the whole picture. Doesn't mean I am humble though...

From the General himself. While it is just a memo and it'll probably take a while to actually get the HR/CivPers office a will to get it together, they seem to agree.

"TDART Program
We are currently seeing the program move is a positive direction. The first of the year there were initial delays but the program is now in full swing. We have ~16 TDARTs hired and 15 RPAs currently being worked. One of the sticking points with the program was how the position initially graded out as a GS-9. With the recently updated Aircrew Qualification Standards, those desiring to become TDARTs should be able to enter to program as a GS-11 in very quick order.

ART Aircrew Qual Standards
The Office of Personnel Management recently approved a long overdue update to the aircrew positions ART Qualification Standards. The flying hour requirement was the main qualification standard that was changed, which now better aligns with current AFI guidance. Below is a brief summary of the major changes:

Pilots: GS-2181: GS-09 - UPT Graduate; GS-11 - 300 total hours in MDS; GS-12 - 750 total hours in MDS; GS-13 - 1000 total hours in MDS. Navigator GS-2183: GS-09 - UNT Graduate; GS-11 - 300 total hours in MDS; GS-12/13 - 1000 total hours in MDS and instructor qualified in unit aircraft.
Airborne Command & Control GS-2101: GS-11 - 500 total hours in MDS; GS-12 - 750 total hours in MDS and instructor qualified in unit aircraft; GS-13 -1000 total hours in MDS and instructor qualified in unit aircraft. "Total Military Flight Time" is the cumulative sum of all flying time to include Primary, Secondary, Instructor, Evaluator, Student, Simulator and Other US Military and Foreign Military Time. Additionally, the recentcy requirement to qualify for an ART flying position has changed and is now defined as having actively flown a military aircraft within the past eight (8) years. These changes are effective immediately and individuals that now qualify to upgrade to a higher GS grade can begin the process through their base civilian personnel offices."

[GlassEmpty]

There is also an ART bonus that turns out pretty close to an AGR bonus.  I don't think prior-e experience would be a factor in hiring at a higher GS level, but thats just me.

The bonus is only listed for a GS-12 position. And for the prior E statement, is that because of apples and oranges? Would you think it would help for a step? It's all about compensation to me. If I got put in scheduling and put someone in an incompatible event, would I get the same freedom as the newb from off the street that didn't know any better? Probably not. The level of work performed could be substantially different. I know you aren't looking for a justification but just sharing your thoughts. I value the inputs.

[matmacwc]

GS-2181's should all have a bonus, maybe its just a fighter thing but I doubt it.  I would try to use every justification possible to get a higher step, just don't be surprised if you don't get it.  I had a thousand  hours of pointy nose time when I got hired but I was never an MWS IP, just a SUPT IP, I got hired as a step 1.  I have heard the reserves hire only as a step 1, hell, I know a fighter patch that was hired as a step 1.  This was a few years ago, most of the new hires that are already MWS IP's are getting step 4 when they get hired.  We are an RTU so being an IP is a must, just a small sample size from my corner of the ANG.

[Gazmo]

Yes, all GS-2181's in the ANG get 30% locality pay (unless your actual locality is higher like NYC or SFO - then you get the higher of the two). For most units in areas that fall well below the 30% locality, it's a pretty good deal. For others that are in the higher cost of living areas upwards of high 20% and into the 30s they don't get much of a bonus at all. The National Guard Bureau last year approved to giving Pilots bonuses above and beyond the 30% locality. In my unit it was 25% per year for instructor Pilots. Of course the funds for these bonuses come out of the civilian pay pot which means units weren't getting any extra money to fund the bonuses which ultimately means less temp-ART's and Less on the spot bonuses for everyone else.

The "whole picture" is that the ART program sucks and needs to go in favor of an all AGR fulltimer force. Of course I'm sure they're just all banking on the next airline industry crisis when everyone crawls back to an ART job and shrivals away in their chairs into their late 40's and past the point of no return. :)

[matmacwc]

13 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

The "whole picture" is that the ART program sucks

Yes

[Gazmo]

So... how about all those ART bonuses, GS pilot payscale increases and AGR conversions...