Race relations/police shootings/protests

[lloyd christmas]

I am curious what the sentiment is here on BO about what's going on in this country IRT race and policing. The vast majority of what I see from our Government, the media, celebrities, civil rights leaders and academic leaders can be summed up as misleading at best. I can't think of a bigger issue that has been more divisive and more dangerous to our country than this.

Discussions about racial issues have deteriorated so much, that you can't mention certain facts or ask certain questions without being labeled a racist. That is very intentional and is meant to quiet the other side of the argument. Label me as you wish, but I think there are some questions that need answered.

Almost 7000 black people are murdered in this country every year. Most of them are murdered by other blacks. Where are the protests when these people are murdered? The slogan "black lives matter" is absolutely true. So, where is the outrage when 20 blacks are killed by other blacks in Chicago in one weekend?

Racism exists in this country. Why are white people in this country the only ones that are racist? It is ok for minorities to run around and call whites whatever they want with no charge of racism from anyone. Why is that?

Look at the Michael Brown case. I'm white. If I went outside and robbed a store, attacked a police officer in his car and tried to take his service weapon, I would be shot and killed. Why are people's criminal behaviors ignored in these situations?

How does rioting, burning down communities, threatening police officers, assassinating 2 police officers (who were minorities) further race relations in this country? It doesn't. It deepens the racial divide and actually makes people racist.

Police aren't targeting unarmed, young black men and looking to murder them. Police put their lives on the line every day in all of the worst places this country has to offer. Yet, they are being painted as nothing more than racist murderers.

This is all orchestrated. It has to be. My question is why? And who gains by propagating this massive lie?

This is a great article and is worth the read.

https://www.city-journal.org/2014/eon1222hm.html

Edited December 24, 2014 by lloyd christmas

[hispeed7721]

I totally agree with everything you said. As far as who wins by propagating this stuff...look at Sharpton and Jackson. Those clowns have become superstars simply because they run around spewing their garbage

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TreeA10]

A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain

[brabus]

My question is why?

Because there's an alarming number of incredibly stupid people in this country; they do not consider consequences, they do not think about anyone but themselves and they have zero capability to think critically about any topic. There's probably a lot of things to blame their behavior on, but a leading one is pure racism...and guess what, it's not a bunch of KKK white men who are the leading cause of these problems. I think the at large black population has become the #1 largest group of racists - we have essentially turned 180 out from our past history. It is not better or worse, it is simply repeating the same human mistakes. Assholes like Sharpton and Jackson only serve to further promote racism; they know it, they just don't give a shit because power, money, etc. is more important to them.

[Fuzz]

I'm sorry Lloyd, but you obviously can't see or understand it because of your white privilege. /sarcasm

[Spartacus]

I agree with everything said here. Also, Sharpton owes millions in back taxes...why is he not in jail for this? Think about it.

Also, I do think that blacks are bitter because of the past. I sympathize and agree that there were a lot of bad things that happened for a long time. However, that doesn't justify the current situation and racist behavior from them. I don't know if there will ever be a solution.

[StoleIt]

[waveshaper]

A simple solution to this problem.

[Fuzz]

I agree with everything said here. Also, Sharpton owes millions in back taxes...why is he not in jail for this? Think about it.

Also, I do think that blacks are bitter because of the past. I sympathize and agree that there were a lot of bad things that happened for a long time. However, that doesn't justify the current situation and racist behavior from them. I don't know if there will ever be a solution.

The black populace, that I see on TV, out rioting and looting are 90% under 35. They have no idea what it was like living in a segregated country or Jim Crow laws.

I agree the treatment of blacks throughout our history is not our shining moment, but these people never knew that injustice. They continue to play the eternal victim calling for things like reparations from the Civil War, when they never knew the hardship. I firmly believe after watching several good friends come from bad neighborhoods make a successful life for themselves the excuse for the state of the black community rests solely on their own shoulders.

[Clark Griswold]

Prepare for this counseling / down-day fun in your future... just a matter of time

[Co Th G]

The black populace, that I see on TV, out rioting and looting are 90% under 35. They have no idea what it was like living in a segregated country or Jim Crow laws.

I agree the treatment of blacks throughout our history is not our shining moment, but these people never knew that injustice. They continue to play the eternal victim calling for things like reparations from the Civil War, when they never knew the hardship. I firmly believe after watching several good friends come from bad neighborhoods make a successful life for themselves the excuse for the state of the black community rests solely on their own shoulders.

I should be entitled to them too as my great-great-great Grandfather was a Confederate Officer, and he owned slaves. I should be paid reparations for the loss of our families slaves.

[HeloDude]

Prepare for this counseling / down-day fun in your future... just a matter of time

...I had to actually look up what the 'cis' was referring to. I think it means 'male assigned male at birth'? Yes, if we're going to say 'male' we now have to be specific as to whether or not the said male was born a male. (for all the the younger kids out there who understand the Internet slang better than I do, please let me know if I'm using incorrect terminology or definitions)

[Fuzz]

...I had to actually look up what the 'cis' was referring to. I think it means 'male assigned male at birth'? Yes, if we're going to say 'male' we now have to be specific as to whether or not the said male was born a male. (for all the the younger kids out there who understand the Internet slang better than I do, please let me know if I'm using incorrect terminology or definitions)

I refuse to devote any brain matter to that "cis" whatever bullshit.

[pawnman]

I think it's unfortunate that this gets painted wholly as race relations, when the police abuses are becoming ever more concerning across all of society. No-knock raids on the wrong houses, where people and dogs have been killed, and in one instance, a toddler burned so badly his family has over $1 million in medical bills...medical bills the SWAT team says they aren't responsible for because they were doing their jobs. Another no-knock raid on the wrong house ended with a 7-year-old girl dead from a gun shot wound in the head. The LAPD beat a white guy to death over the course of about 30 minutes...pretty sure he was done resisting well before that.

Now, I don't think these rioters have the right answer. And I certainly will not argue that Michael Brown was a good person, nor that Eric Garner wasn't breaking the law. I'm also not arguing that every cop who shoots someone in the line of duty is a murderer and should be tried.

On the other hand, we will clearly not reach any kind of solution as long as the police continue to view themselves as military units, going out to face hostiles every day, instead of PEACE officers, going out to serve and protect the people paying their salary. We keep hearing that it's a few bad apples that do this sort of thing...but I haven't seen very many police stand up and say "hey, that cop was a bad guy, I don't want him on the force anymore" when these abuses do happen.

So no, I don't think the riots will solve anything. And no, I don't think one segment of the population is being oppressed. But I also don't think that every police officer is a saint and that all of them have only my well-being in mind.

[Vertigo]

I think it's unfortunate that this gets painted wholly as race relations, when the police abuses are becoming ever more concerning across all of society. No-knock raids on the wrong houses, where people and dogs have been killed, and in one instance, a toddler burned so badly his family has over $1 million in medical bills...medical bills the SWAT team says they aren't responsible for because they were doing their jobs. Another no-knock raid on the wrong house ended with a 7-year-old girl dead from a gun shot wound in the head. The LAPD beat a white guy to death over the course of about 30 minutes...pretty sure he was done resisting well before that.

Now, I don't think these rioters have the right answer. And I certainly will not argue that Michael Brown was a good person, nor that Eric Garner wasn't breaking the law. I'm also not arguing that every cop who shoots someone in the line of duty is a murderer and should be tried.

On the other hand, we will clearly not reach any kind of solution as long as the police continue to view themselves as military units, going out to face hostiles every day, instead of PEACE officers, going out to serve and protect the people paying their salary. We keep hearing that it's a few bad apples that do this sort of thing...but I haven't seen very many police stand up and say "hey, that cop was a bad guy, I don't want him on the force anymore" when these abuses do happen.

So no, I don't think the riots will solve anything. And no, I don't think one segment of the population is being oppressed. But I also don't think that every police officer is a saint and that all of them have only my well-being in mind.

Totally agree. Why is no one asking the question why a victimless crime (Garner) was escalated to a violent confrontation by the PO when all that should have happened was the cop giving him a citation similar to a speeding ticket and going on his merry way?

I have a few close friends and family members who are LEOs so don't think I'm a cop hater at all. But I am becoming more and more saddened by the "don't question my authority" attitude by some cops when a person stands up for their Constitutional rights.

For example this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMlc0-LSMgA

The cop gets mad when the individual, who is not doing anything illegal, refuses to give the cop his can of ice tea. There's no probable cause so the officer has no right to search the can. When his authority is questioned he tells the individual to leave under the threat of trespass. That officer is NOT the owner of that property and has no right to tell the individual to leave that property unless the property owner wants the customer to leave. But nonetheless his authority was questioned and he used that as an excuse to find something to arrest the individual on.

[HeloDude]

Totally agree. Why is no one asking the question why a victimless crime (Garner) was escalated to a violent confrontation by the PO when all that should have happened was the cop giving him a citation similar to a speeding ticket and going on his merry way?

I agree with both you and Pawnman, but I don't agree that 'no one' is talking about the horrible reason as to why Garner was stopped. Link below (yes, it's from the horrible racist FoxNews) has Hannity and Rand Paul talking about this exact issue. I'm not a big fan of Sean Hannity, but I think he gets it with this issue. Unless by 'no one' you mean clowns like Sharpton, de Blasio, and other progressives on the left, then I agree. And of course they will never address this issue for three reasons: They love taxes, they love government control, and they want to make this a victim issue not an issue of Liberty (see Saul Alinksky and his rules).

https://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/transcript/2014/12/05/sen-rand-paul-eric-garner-didnt-need-die

I don't support the protests because it is not a pro-Liberty protest. It is by and large a big group of people, fueled by race hustlers like Sharpton and Jackson, who want to feel like they're victims, regardless of the circumstances. This should not be a race issue, but a pro-Liberty issue that involves people from every race. I blame the politicians the 'second' most for these LEO's stopping, arresting, and harassing people for victimless crimes. I blame the people the most for putting these politicians into office election after election. The police, by and large, are just doing what they are hired to do. They don't make the laws, but just enforce them. The vast majority also don't get to decide on the policy by which they operate. Saying this a 'police vs black people' problem is like saying or problems in Iraq were from a 'Iraqi civilian vs American soldier' problem, which it was not.

When the 'hands up don't shoot' narrative/cheer is still being supported then I refuse to listen to the nonsense. One of the few things I support coming from this whole ordeal will hopefully be States/local cities making their LEO wear body cameras whenever dealing with non-LEO when acting in a official capacity.

[Clark Griswold]

I have a few close friends and family members who are LEOs so don't think I'm a cop hater at all. But I am becoming more and more saddened by the "don't question my authority" attitude by some cops when a person stands up for their Constitutional rights.

Agreed. The technique of Command Presence has been misconstrued, we don't wimpy cops but we don't want bullies either.

[deaddebate]

OK, I super apoligize for anybody because I'm very drunk right now so heres my question.

Is robert bates (the guy who shot eric harris) guilty or not guilty because he mistook his gun for a taser?

again, sorry, but Im really drunk and I need to post this.

[KState_Poke22]

OK, I super apoligize for anybody because I'm very drunk right now so heres my question.

Is robert bates (the guy who shot eric harris) guilty or not guilty because he mistook his gun for a taser?

again, sorry, but Im really drunk and I need to post this.

There was a similar situation in the Bay Area 5 or so years ago. I believe the cop in that case got a manslaughter conviction. The better question is why there is a 73 year old "reserve officer" doing weapons stings.

[HU&W]

OK, I super apoligize for anybody because I'm very drunk right now so heres my question.

Is robert bates (the guy who shot eric harris) guilty or not guilty because he mistook his gun for a taser?

again, sorry, but Im really drunk and I need to post this.

Charged with manslaughter. Not yet convicted.

[Day Man]

OK, I super apoligize for anybody because I'm very drunk right now so heres my question.

Is robert bates (the guy who shot eric harris) guilty or not guilty because he mistook his gun for a taser?

again, sorry, but Im really drunk and I need to post this.

upvoted for being "really drunk."

[Hercster]

Great point Lloyd and well put. No arguments. I experienced a minor case of racism myself in downtown Little Rock. Went into a store to upgrade my phone. Stood around for a good 15 min without so much as a "hello" or "welcome," but the next customer (take a guess at their skin color) was immediately helped. We left after that. Something is wrong with this country when the very proponents of equal opportunity will slam you just for not being black.

[hispeed7721]

Something is wrong with this country when the very proponents of equal opportunity will slam you just for not being black.

"Equality" in today's terms almost always means "special treatment"...and that applies to race, gender, orientation, etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jcj]

There was a similar situation in the Bay Area 5 or so years ago. I believe the cop in that case got a manslaughter conviction. The better question is why there is a 73 year old "reserve officer" doing weapons stings.

this.

Plus probably an error to make the law enforcement version of the tazer about the same shape as a service weapon. They might have been better off if they were a completely different shape like the consumer-variant tazers are.

Edited April 19, 2015 by jcj

[Tank]

this.

Plus probably an error to make the law enforcement version of the tazer about the same shape as a service weapon. They might have been better off if they were a completely different shape like the consumer-variant tazers are.

That is why officers where the tazer on their non-dominate side opposite their fire arm. Why he had both sitting on the same side of his body is another question to ask.