That Cyber Thread

[stract]

@17D_guy, since AMRDEC just bit it, are there any AF solutions out there which can be leveraged to share large files across to users around the world securely?

Also, someone needs to un-fuck the PII tool so that it doesn't think attached emails have SSNs in them!  It also keys on aircraft part numbers with long strings of alpha-numeric characters.  When the tool runs, there needs to be a way for us to tell said tool that no, those part numbers are NOT PII.  This is a huge issue now that AMRDEC is down and may never come back up.

Edited November 10, 2018 by stract

[matmacwc]

Dropbox?

[Homestar]

22 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Dropbox?

In my last unit we used Box for, ahem, “stuff”. Works great. Lasts long time. 

[Guest]

Additionally, getting some of the HHQ shoe clerks to think outside of TDY's to CONUS locations and what it takes to go to some of these places has been extremely difficult.  Required to wear civilian clothes...we need a civ clothing allowance for our E's.  The retired MSgt running XP shaking his head "No," since they can just go buy it out of pocket.  WTF.

Uhh, there are a lot of Es who already need civilian clothes for foreign travel who don’t get a clothing allowance. Why should Cyber be any different?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tonka]

16 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

 

Uhh, there are a lot of Es who already need civilian clothes for foreign travel who don’t get a clothing allowance. Why should Cyber be any different?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Maybe we improve the situation for everyone? Crazy i know.

[17D_guy]

6 hours ago, Tonka said:

Maybe we improve the situation for everyone? Crazy i know.

For real.

Those E's leadership failed. It's authorized in AFI with a few required items/timelines (which we hit). There are some AFSCs/jobs that get it automatically and we're trying to get added if (actually when) we pick up that mission.

[uhhello]

There is a difference between having to travel in civilian clothes (who doesn't anymore?) and having to perform official duties on a routine basis in civi's.  

[viper154]

On 11/10/2018 at 11:25 AM, 17D_guy said:

Additionally, getting some of the HHQ shoe clerks to think outside of TDY's to CONUS locations and what it takes to go to some of these places has been extremely difficult.  Required to wear civilian clothes...we need a civ clothing allowance for our E's.  The retired MSgt running XP shaking his head "No," since they can just go buy it out of pocket.  WTF.

We made a push for this a few years ago. Unfunded request through the the group RAs. Required a lot of justification from the SQ/CC. Other units skin the cat by making the civ clothing part of the initial issue gear you get when you get to your unit. You get a a gift card to REI, or whatever store meets your clothing needs, and a shopping list of required items, xx polos, xx khaki pants, shoes, mutlitool, etc. Allows everyone to build their own “kit” so they can get items that meet the needs/sizes/preferences of the individual. The gift card takes the hassle out of having to have a government charge card holder go with every person to buy their stuff. 

I would probably recommend sending a NCO or O with the young guys, giving a couple hundred dollars on a gift card to a young airman is a recipe for disaster. 

[Bobsan]

 

[17D_guy]

Well,

  It's been awhile since I've posted in here with the latest happenings from the cyber front.

  Since the last time AFSPC finally gave up it's choke hold on cyber ops and it moved over to ACC.  As part of that there was also a realignment of the operational squadrons within the 2 cyber wings: 688 CW and 67 CW.  Now the DODIN Ops bitches (re: email, slow network, etc.) aren't mixed in with the actual cyber operators.  Noticeable change overnight in getting actual effects done, training that isn't fucking stupid and the idea that a Cyber Patch needs to work on Server2016 patching TTPs.

  Also 24AF is no more, and it was "killed" along with 25AF to created a "new" Info Ops NAF - 16AF.   The Commander pined on his second star in Aug of last year...and his 3rd in Oct.  I've sat in meetings with this dude when he's briefing his "great ideas" to the operators only to be met with a Capt saying, "That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard."  That Capt was then supported by every other Team Lead in the room.  We were then told the brief was a courtesy only and the decision had already been made.  Fun fact: his plan did not come to fruition. 

  The Cyber National Mission Force got a new commander, and a new mission - Defend Forward. For my guys (National CPT Squadron) it means we go into the "contested" areas and hunt out the enemy.  It's caused some interesting wins, and is more like spycraft than blow-shit-up-craft.  Enemy TTPs, tools and accesses are burned on the "defense" side and the allegedly offense sided guys get to do a safer mission at home...I still think it sounds cool.

  New NSA and US Cyber Com commander as well.  Nakasone has come in and it's been a whole different game.  I know some of that is down to the difference in president as well.  It's been awesome to see some of the maturity that has come out as we've allowed the younger operators actually push the boundaries.  As we've moved out the old (shitty) comm officers who were put in charge, because that's the only folks that made O6, we've seen a lot more bridge building that has enhanced...well everything.  It has been really interesting to see the old guard that we've bitched about on here for a decade move on to be replaced by people that were Maj/LtCol's though the massive shit years '07-'14)

Cybercom and CNMF do treat the operators like their own service, which is a problem.  Imagine being presented to AFCENT/CENTOM 24/7 as operators for mission.  There's no built in down-time/dwell-time or ratio.  Retainability in very in-demand AFSC's has hit rock bottom.  Additionally, if your'e unlucky enough to be stuck at Ft Meade you'll be treated more as staff than as a team lead OTE'ing an operational team and leading them on ops.  Also Cybercom and CNMF have no idea what to do with folks that don't actually sit with them on site...in cyber of all things.  Boomers...whatcha gonna do?

  For your cyber teams here's a break down -

-- Cyber national mission teams defend the nation by identifying adversary activity, blocking attacked and maneuvering to defeat them.

-- Cyber combat mission teams conduct military cyberspace operations in support of combatant commander priorities and missions.

-- Cyber protection teams defend DoD’s information network, protect priority missions and prepare cyber forces for combat.

-- Cyber support teams provide analytic and planning support to national mission and combat mission teams.

The Cyber Protection team one is out dated, and incorrect.  It's an ongoing fight that we're having in the joint and AF community.  It's almost like different units/services train to different standards for different missions.  But fuckers want to do all this on the cheap and treat us like you can go from deep in an enemies network creating effects to managing routers and switches with PCS orders.  Which leads to next topic --

Finally, the USAF has done what we've asked for going on a decade - split the AFSC.  We now have 17S and 17D.  This is a great RAND study that the didn't release for over 3 years because "it's easier to manage you as a core together than figure out how to not do that."  So finally those Col's and GO's retired and we did it.  There's a 17SA (offensive ops), 17SB (def ops--me), 17DA (email bitch), 17DB (Combat comm).  This is causing a split in WIC...which is hotly debated, but overall it's great for creating experts and choking the fuck out of the enemies of our nation.  Going to be a bit like EWO's though with not a lot of assignment spots and probably difficulty promoting.

With that said I actually hit the button 2 days ago...so my time is now coming to a close.  I'd give a lot to be coming in as a 2Lt now with the change in just the past 6 months.  As stated above with a Capt calling bullshit on a 1-star...there's a growing and strong operational mindset in our cyber operators.  We now have leaders that are trying very hard to build our competency and communication so we can sit at the planning table as peers.  I'm very proud to have been in at the ground floor, and look forward to its future with exceeding hope.

TL;DR - Cyber from AFSPC to ACC; 24AF & 25AF into 16AF; new mission of Defend Forward; some great strategic victories; Cyber Ops AFSC isn't associated w/ Comm bullshit anymore according to Big Blue.

Edited February 6, 2020 by 17D_guy

[Danger41]

20 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

Well,

  It's been awhile since I've posted in here with the latest happenings from the cyber front.

  Since the last time AFSPC finally gave up it's choke hold on cyber ops and it moved over to ACC.  As part of that there was also a realignment of the operational squadrons within the 2 cyber wings: 688 CW and 67 CW.  Now the DODIN Ops bitches (re: email, slow network, etc.) aren't mixed in with the actual cyber operators.  Noticeable change overnight in getting actual effects done, training that isn't fucking stupid and the idea that a Cyber Patch needs to work on Server2016 patching TTPs.

  Also 24AF is no more, and it was "killed" along with 25AF to created a "new" Info Ops NAF - 16AF.   The Commander pined on his second star in Aug of last year...and his 3rd in Oct.  I've sat in meetings with this dude when he's briefing his "great ideas" to the operators only to be met with a Capt saying, "That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard."  That Capt was then supported by every other Team Lead in the room.  We were then told the brief was a courtesy only and the decision had already been made.  Fun fact: his plan did not come to fruition. 

  The Cyber National Mission Force got a new commander, and a new mission - Defend Forward. For my guys (National CPT Squadron) it means we go into the "contested" areas and hunt out the enemy.  It's caused some interesting wins, and is more like spycraft than blow-shit-up-craft.  Enemy TTPs, tools and accesses are burned on the "defense" side and the allegedly offense sided guys get to do a safer mission at home...I still think it sounds cool.

  New NSA and US Cyber Com commander as well.  Nakasone has come in and it's been a whole different game.  I know some of that is down to the difference in president as well.  It's been awesome to see some of the maturity that has come out as we've allowed the younger operators actually push the boundaries.  As we've moved out the old (shitty) comm officers who were put in charge, because that's the only folks that made O6, we've seen a lot more bridge building that has enhanced...well everything.  It has been really interesting to see the old guard that we've bitched about on here for a decade move on to be replaced by people that were Maj/LtCol's though the massive shit years '07-'14)

Cybercom and CNMF do treat the operators like their own service, which is a problem.  Imagine being presented to AFCENT/CENTOM 24/7 as operators for mission.  There's no built in down-time/dwell-time or ratio.  Retainability in very in-demand AFSC's has hit rock bottom.  Additionally, if your'e unlucky enough to be stuck at Ft Meade you'll be treated more as staff than as a team lead OTE'ing an operational team and leading them on ops.  Also Cybercom and CNMF have no idea what to do with folks that don't actually sit with them on site...in cyber of all things.  Boomers...whatcha gonna do?

  For your cyber teams here's a break down -

-- Cyber national mission teams defend the nation by identifying adversary activity, blocking attacked and maneuvering to defeat them.

-- Cyber combat mission teams conduct military cyberspace operations in support of combatant commander priorities and missions.

-- Cyber protection teams defend DoD’s information network, protect priority missions and prepare cyber forces for combat.

-- Cyber support teams provide analytic and planning support to national mission and combat mission teams.

The Cyber Protection team one is out dated, and incorrect.  It's an ongoing fight that we're having in the joint and AF community.  It's almost like different units/services train to different standards for different missions.  But fuckers want to do all this on the cheap and treat us like you can go from deep in an enemies network creating effects to managing routers and switches with PCS orders.  Which leads to next topic --

Finally, the USAF has done what we've asked for going on a decade - split the AFSC.  We now have 17S and 17D.  This is a great RAND study that the didn't release for over 3 years because "it's easier to manage you as a core together than figure out how to not do that."  So finally those Col's and GO's retired and we did it.  There's a 17SA (offensive ops), 17SB (def ops--me), 17DA (email bitch), 17DB (Combat comm).  This is causing a split in WIC...which is hotly debated, but overall it's great for creating experts and choking the fuck out of the enemies of our nation.  Going to be a bit like EWO's though with not a lot of assignment spots and probably difficulty promoting.

With that said I actually hit the button 2 days ago...so my time is now coming to a close.  I'd give a lot to be coming in as a 2Lt now with the change in just the past 6 months.  As stated above with a Capt calling bullshit on a 1-star...there's a growing and strong operational mindset in our cyber operators.  We now have leaders that are trying very hard to build our competency and communication so we can sit at the planning table as peers.  I'm very proud to have been in at the ground floor, and look forward to its future with exceeding hope.

TL;DR - Cyber from AFSPC to ACC; 24AF & 25AF into 16AF; new mission of Defend Forward; some great strategic victories; Cyber Ops AFSC isn't associated w/ Comm bullshit anymore according to Big Blue.

Awesome info and thanks for the update! I totally agree with you about coming into Cyber now as a 2nd Lt would be very exciting.

Thanks to you personally for your service and congrats on your pending retirement!

[HossHarris]

14 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Well,

  It's been awhile since I've posted in here with the latest happenings from the cyber front.

  Since the last time AFSPC finally gave up it's choke hold on cyber ops and it moved over to ACC.  As part of that there was also a realignment of the operational squadrons within the 2 cyber wings: 688 CW and 67 CW.  Now the DODIN Ops bitches (re: email, slow network, etc.) aren't mixed in with the actual cyber operators.  Noticeable change overnight in getting actual effects done, training that isn't fucking stupid and the idea that a Cyber Patch needs to work on Server2016 patching TTPs.

  Also 24AF is no more, and it was "killed" along with 25AF to created a "new" Info Ops NAF - 16AF.   The Commander pined on his second star in Aug of last year...and his 3rd in Oct.  I've sat in meetings with this dude when he's briefing his "great ideas" to the operators only to be met with a Capt saying, "That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard."  That Capt was then supported by every other Team Lead in the room.  We were then told the brief was a courtesy only and the decision had already been made.  Fun fact: his plan did not come to fruition. 

  The Cyber National Mission Force got a new commander, and a new mission - Defend Forward. For my guys (National CPT Squadron) it means we go into the "contested" areas and hunt out the enemy.  It's caused some interesting wins, and is more like spycraft than blow-shit-up-craft.  Enemy TTPs, tools and accesses are burned on the "defense" side and the allegedly offense sided guys get to do a safer mission at home...I still think it sounds cool.

  New NSA and US Cyber Com commander as well.  Nakasone has come in and it's been a whole different game.  I know some of that is down to the difference in president as well.  It's been awesome to see some of the maturity that has come out as we've allowed the younger operators actually push the boundaries.  As we've moved out the old (shitty) comm officers who were put in charge, because that's the only folks that made O6, we've seen a lot more bridge building that has enhanced...well everything.  It has been really interesting to see the old guard that we've bitched about on here for a decade move on to be replaced by people that were Maj/LtCol's though the massive shit years '07-'14)

Cybercom and CNMF do treat the operators like their own service, which is a problem.  Imagine being presented to AFCENT/CENTOM 24/7 as operators for mission.  There's no built in down-time/dwell-time or ratio.  Retainability in very in-demand AFSC's has hit rock bottom.  Additionally, if your'e unlucky enough to be stuck at Ft Meade you'll be treated more as staff than as a team lead OTE'ing an operational team and leading them on ops.  Also Cybercom and CNMF have no idea what to do with folks that don't actually sit with them on site...in cyber of all things.  Boomers...whatcha gonna do?

  For your cyber teams here's a break down -

-- Cyber national mission teams defend the nation by identifying adversary activity, blocking attacked and maneuvering to defeat them.

-- Cyber combat mission teams conduct military cyberspace operations in support of combatant commander priorities and missions.

-- Cyber protection teams defend DoD’s information network, protect priority missions and prepare cyber forces for combat.

-- Cyber support teams provide analytic and planning support to national mission and combat mission teams.

The Cyber Protection team one is out dated, and incorrect.  It's an ongoing fight that we're having in the joint and AF community.  It's almost like different units/services train to different standards for different missions.  But fuckers want to do all this on the cheap and treat us like you can go from deep in an enemies network creating effects to managing routers and switches with PCS orders.  Which leads to next topic --

Finally, the USAF has done what we've asked for going on a decade - split the AFSC.  We now have 17S and 17D.  This is a great RAND study that the didn't release for over 3 years because "it's easier to manage you as a core together than figure out how to not do that."  So finally those Col's and GO's retired and we did it.  There's a 17SA (offensive ops), 17SB (def ops--me), 17DA (email bitch), 17DB (Combat comm).  This is causing a split in WIC...which is hotly debated, but overall it's great for creating experts and choking the fuck out of the enemies of our nation.  Going to be a bit like EWO's though with not a lot of assignment spots and probably difficulty promoting.

With that said I actually hit the button 2 days ago...so my time is now coming to a close.  I'd give a lot to be coming in as a 2Lt now with the change in just the past 6 months.  As stated above with a Capt calling bullshit on a 1-star...there's a growing and strong operational mindset in our cyber operators.  We now have leaders that are trying very hard to build our competency and communication so we can sit at the planning table as peers.  I'm very proud to have been in at the ground floor, and look forward to its future with exceeding hope.

TL;DR - Cyber from AFSPC to ACC; 24AF & 25AF into 16AF; new mission of Defend Forward; some great strategic victories; Cyber Ops AFSC isn't associated w/ Comm bullshit anymore according to Big Blue.

And, of course, it should go without saying...but

 

 

[17D_guy]

I think there's a lot of parallels to what early military aviation went through and what my cyber operators are going through.  We're doing stuff like this because the USAF still has too many comm officers in cyber leadership billets that advocate for the past.

https://www.fifthdomain.com/dod/air-force/2020/02/21/the-largest-cyber-exercise-youve-never-heard-of/

Edited February 29, 2020 by 17D_guy

[Danger41]

8 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

I think there's a lot of parallels to what early military aviation went through and what my cyber operators are going through.  We're doing stuff like this because the USAF still has too many comm officers in cyber leadership billets that advocate for the past.

https://www.fifthdomain.com/dod/air-force/2020/02/21/the-largest-cyber-exercise-youve-never-heard-of/

That is a very interesting article and exercise. Has there ever been a discussion of using “aggressors” like the original aggressor units? Get a group of talented people together, learn and employ like the enemy, and travel unit to unit to thump on them and teach them how to counter/defeat the enemy?

[17D_guy]

20 hours ago, Danger41 said:

That is a very interesting article and exercise. Has there ever been a discussion of using “aggressors” like the original aggressor units? Get a group of talented people together, learn and employ like the enemy, and travel unit to unit to thump on them and teach them how to counter/defeat the enemy?

There's that desire, just a lack of experience and people.  Plus the TTPs of our enemies are heavily classified, so it would be difficult to role those out on a range.

[Day Man]

2 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

There's that desire, just a lack of experience and people.  Plus the TTPs of our enemies are heavily classified, so it would be difficult to role those out on a range.

If our enemies already know their own TTPs, why do they need to be heavily classified? 🤔

it's a joke

[Danger41]

4 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

There's that desire, just a lack of experience and people.  Plus the TTPs of our enemies are heavily classified, so it would be difficult to role those out on a range.

To continue your earlier parallel to aviation development, look at some of the roles of intelligence and tac air in Vietnam. Over classification and compartmentalization cost us a good amount of jets and aircrews. Hopefully Cyber won’t have to relearn that lesson and can profit from our mistakes (to quote Chesty Puller). I hope they do it quickly too because the pace of Cyber is one hell of a lot faster than aviation development. 

[SurelySerious]

4 hours ago, Day Man said:

If our enemies already know their own TTPs, why do they need to be heavily classified? 🤔

it's a joke

There's a certain amount you don't want your enemy to know what you know, because then they counter your counter. However...

1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

To continue your earlier parallel to aviation development, look at some of the roles of intelligence and tac air in Vietnam. Over classification and compartmentalization cost us a good amount of jets and aircrews. Hopefully Cyber won’t have to relearn that lesson and can profit from our mistakes (to quote Chesty Puller). I hope they do it quickly too because the pace of Cyber is one hell of a lot faster than aviation development. 

^There's also this angle.

[ThreeHoler]

^There's also this angle.

Tracer Buster Buster!

[gearhog]

On 3/1/2020 at 7:27 PM, 17D_guy said:

There's that desire, just a lack of experience and people.  Plus the TTPs of our enemies are heavily classified, so it would be difficult to role those out on a range.

Our earlier discussion got me wondering about not just about cyberattacks on our voting systems, but other systems as well. Turns out, the COVID-19 virus has exposed massive inconsistencies and inadequacies in our global systems architecture. According to experts, a future cyber attack would "make COVID-19 seem like a small disturbance in comparison."

Fortunately, the Cyber Polygon event (maybe you've already heard of it) has allowed us to use the COVID-19 pandemic as a timely opportunity to reflect on the lessons cyber security community can draw and improve our preparedness for a potential cyber pandemic.

Anyway, I thought it was a cool website and thought it'd be right up your alley.

https://cyberpolygon.com/results-2020/

This guy has some amazing things to say about the importance of cyber security. Maybe you'd enjoy it and I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by torqued

[17D_guy]

On 11/22/2020 at 4:42 PM, torqued said:

Our earlier discussion got me wondering about not just about cyberattacks on our voting systems, but other systems as well. Turns out, the COVID-19 virus has exposed massive inconsistencies and inadequacies in our global systems architecture. According to experts, a future cyber attack would "make COVID-19 seem like a small disturbance in comparison."

Fortunately, the Cyber Polygon event (maybe you've already heard of it) has allowed us to use the COVID-19 pandemic as a timely opportunity to reflect on the lessons cyber security community can draw and improve our preparedness for a potential cyber pandemic.

Anyway, I thought it was a cool website and thought it'd be right up your alley.

https://cyberpolygon.com/results-2020/

This guy has some amazing things to say about the importance of cyber security. Maybe you'd enjoy it and I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

I gave it a listen.  He's very right about what the pandemic has caused.  Now, there's a couple of caveats moving forward to remember when thinking about cyber.  I also think that we're going to see big change on this within 5 years.

1) Cyber is not currently a "utility" in the US.  It's not treated like water or power for individual consumers, or even small/med businesses.  It's not a necessity or right.  That mindset allows it to be almost an afterthought.  There's no big push to get fiber everywhere, to make us competitive across the US like some of our peers are (Japan, SK, Europe).  Our costs are expensive in comparison with less to show for it. This is mostly a political and commercial discussion.  But this framing is important because we (USA), as a people, don't really think it's that important.

(Counter to my point above is mobile access...but you can't do everything on phones, and they're just as susceptible to hackers, if not more in some respects.)

2) Cyber operations, as levied by nation states or very advanced hackers, move in a larger spectrum than just the internet.  It's literally across the electromagnetic domain, and that's all I'm comfortable saying on here.  There are little/no norms, and the norms we have are poorly formed and based mostly on leadership personalities.  Trump's cyber engagement was VERY different that Obama's.  I'm not saying here whether one was better than the other, but that for the most part our other norms of military engagement don't change too much from one Pres to the other. 

So, on one had we have a domain we're actively fighting...kinda.  And at the same time it is the baseline for modern society to function, but it's "nerd shit" that doesn't need a second thought until you gotta call the geek squad.  Everything is digital now: TV, voice lines; nothing comes to your house that isn't wrapped in a IP packet.  Many leaders are of the mindset to either pay it lip service and not fund an adequate amount, or do a checklist approach with a "jobs done" when they meet the bare minimum.  There's also a lack of skilled workers, which is a whole other discussion. 

The pandemic is pushing it forward faster, but I'm worried it's going to take a lot more.  We're already seeing the creep and what I believe is a failure to engage correctly.  For example, I talked about red lines for voting machine/infrastructure, is crypto-locking up hospitals a red line?  I think it should be.  I think the Pres should be able to say that is a clear-and-present danger to the US and our way of life and vector the DoD to fix that problem for us.

So this dude is right, we all have to figure out the fix together. But we're all fighting across it, and there's no norms.  On top of that, as Americans we actively resist the idea of centralized control, which is what is needed in the setup/build phase.  I need a fully redundant and resilient power grid -- well the power companies, and states, are going to tell the Fed to pound sand because a myriad of reasons.  The Fed, prob DHS, is the exact cross nation organization to lead that effort.

I'm rambling, I apologize.  I'm still going to post this, but let me know if it made/didn't make sense.  I'm very tired.

[17D_guy]

So,

  Here's a cool hack that happened.  I think the story illustrates well what I've been trying to discuss in the other threads about capabilities development and utilization.

story - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/iphone-zero-click-wi-fi-exploit-is-one-of-the-most-breathtaking-hacks-ever/

Blog post - https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2020/12/an-ios-zero-click-radio-proximity.html (Very long)

 For those that don't know Project Zero is a Google initiative to get after bugs in software in a very aggressive manner.  About page - https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/p/about-project-zero.html

  These guys are genius level hackers, working with literally unlimited funding going after the biggest names in the business to break their things...and get them patched.  The take away -

"one person, working alone in their bedroom, was able to build a capability which would allow them to seriously compromise iPhone users they'd come into close contact with."

  Something to note about software development - having 2 guys work on the same thing doesn't reduce the time by half, or even at all.  It can, but is not likely.  So, if you're thinking, "Well, the FSB probably has 20 of these guys so they could do it faster."  Not really, and they don't have 20 of these guys.  There's very few of these guys, and Google pays them 7+ figures.

 These Project Zero folks are the same people that are trying to get after our voting systems to help protect them, and we have enemies that could be trying to do the same thing to reduce confidence in our democracy.  Right now we have no evidence of the later and evidence that they are trying to hack those systems isn't evidence that they have. 

Cyberops is tied very heavily into Intel, and there's legit concerns about Intel gain/loss and weapons loss that we and our enemies go through.  As I said in the other thread, if the National Security Orgs had a wiff of this going on, we'd be hearing something about it.  Probably from the President himself, because he can't shut his mouth about it.  Think about what would happen the first time this bug dropped, and apply that to the election.

[17D_guy]

Not to brag but - U.S. Cyberforce Was Deployed to Estonia to Hunt for Russian Hackers

[Sua Sponte]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55240408

[17D_guy]

2 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55240408

So.  Whatever was used to get in is going to get burned, or turned over to the Fed for examination and use.

Every tool they have is going to get hashed and given to the cybersecurity vendors out there.  Be interesting to see if we see any attributable patches to vulns they might have developed.  Kinda like WannaCry after the alleged-NSA loss of tooling.

Overall...it sucks!