That Cyber Thread

[zach braff]

3 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Dope news.

V/R

Wedge

CHRIS P. WEGGEMAN

Major General, USAF

Commander, 24 AF (AFCYBER)

Made my day when I saw the news this week.  It will be a good thing to have the network run by a community that understands there is more of a mission than just the network.  Perhaps my cries of "your nonsensical fvcking rules are hurting my wing's ability to launch jets" might fall on an ear that gives a sh-t.

zb

[17D_guy]

So, 

  Lots going on this week in Cyber.  The whole WannaCry issue has again highlighted how awful everyone is at security/patching.  Can't get into specifics, but the USAF is no better with getting patches loaded on time.  But our boundaries are amazing and the operators there are legit.  If you'd like some more info on WannaCry, just google it.

  Also had a ISAG group come by our spaces this week to discuss cyber things with every rank group.  It was interesting to talk with the different rank groups what was covered in their areas and how people felt about the event overall.  Some felt they were talked down to, my group felt listened to though we were bewildered by the confusion Gen Welch had when discussing how cyber does assignments.

  He stated repeatedly that A1 likes us all as 17D's, because they can just throw us around so much easier into assignments.  Someone actually said "A1 got us into this fiasco."  There's little/no concern for past experience or training once you're a Capt.  He said that as a 11F he was always an 11F, and up through Col could count on staying near, if not in, a flying position.  It's just not the same for us "cyber opertors."  We can do 2 17S ops tours (DCO/OCO) and then go to 17D staff, then go be a 17D DO at a traditional Comm Sq, and then go back to staff in a 17D slot, then go back to 17S Ops as a Sq CC...on a completely different weapon system on which initially qualified.  There is no staying qualified on the weapon system you were previously on.  There's kinda discussion for that with the Comm Sq of the Future, but that's for DCO.  OCO... there's nothing.  Where do you think a large portion of our true operators (in the legit sense) are?

  Then come to find out, while our manning is absolute garbage (remember Grosso's "90% retention necessary") we're getting promoted at a significantly lower rate.  Gen Welch couldn't understand how the Comm/Cyber AFSC, which through his whole career had dedicated, hard working and recognized O's/E's, was now getting promoted at a significantly lower rate than previously selected.  Apparently this has caught the eye of some leadership.  

  Meanwhile we just had one of our best Col's retire 29 days short of 3 years with O6 pinned on and AFSPC didn't waive it so he could retire in rank.  Retirement orders stated Lt Col.  Wonder why so few of the non-prior E's who're legit, aren't taking that bonus.  The now-retired Lt Col is doing fine w/ his VP position at a Defense Contractor, but that's just shitty.

  Gen Welch also didn't like that people coming out of IQT/MQT were not comfortable on operating their weapon system.  We had one of our WIC's stay he never felt comfortable and the single month of training on the equipment didn't really prepare him for anything.  He had to do almost everything OJT, and before missions he'd deep dive into what they were going to do so that he could actually use the equipment.

  Finally, there are Cyber guys who just want to do the support mission.  They don't want to be hackers or highly technical.  They want to keep the flying mission running.  However, there's no place for them right now with this deep focus on cyber.  One of the panel members brought up "maintenance" which we cautioned against, because everything's an operation in cyber.

  Overall, good discussion, but reaffirmed my decision to not take the bonus and keep the cards close on future plans.  I've got only a little while left until check-of-the-month club.

[Bozo]

On 5/17/2017 at 11:12 AM, 17D_guy said:

Then come to find out, while our manning is absolute garbage (remember Grosso's "90% retention necessary") we're getting promoted at a significantly lower rate.  Gen Welch couldn't understand how the Comm/Cyber AFSC, which through his whole career had dedicated, hard working and recognized O's/E's, was now getting promoted at a significantly lower rate than previously selected.  Apparently this has caught the eye of some leadership.

Did you see any of the promotion data used to support this assertion?   I spend some time as a FAM and the assignment team seemed to indicate that I was asking for rather sensitive data.   I did not have access to enough information to try and calculate it myself.

[17D_guy]

13 hours ago, Bozo said:

Did you see any of the promotion data used to support this assertion?   I spend some time as a FAM and the assignment team seemed to indicate that I was asking for rather sensitive data.   I did not have access to enough information to try and calculate it myself.

No, it was the statement of the panel lead to us.  I would like it to verify on my own.  Our manning from the Assignments team brief is rather abysmal and not at all inline with the rest of the Line Officer's of the AF.  I'm sure it's on MyPers somewhere if I wanted to compile it all... I'll ask around as well.  It is a very interesting statement.

[Seriously]

On 5/17/2017 at 9:12 AM, 17D_guy said:

  He stated repeatedly that A1 likes us all as 17D's, because they can just throw us around so much easier into assignments.  Someone actually said "A1 got us into this fiasco."  There's little/no concern for past experience or training once you're a Capt.  He said that as a 11F he was always an 11F, and up through Col could count on staying near, if not in, a flying position.  It's just not the same for us "cyber opertors."  We can do 2 17S ops tours (DCO/OCO) and then go to 17D staff, then go be a 17D DO at a traditional Comm Sq, and then go back to staff in a 17D slot, then go back to 17S Ops as a Sq CC...on a completely different weapon system on which initially qualified.  There is no staying qualified on the weapon system you were previously on.  There's kinda discussion for that with the Comm Sq of the Future, but that's for DCO.  OCO... there's nothing.  Where do you think a large portion of our true operators (in the legit sense) are?

Classic bureaucrat concerned only with solving the bureaucracy's own problems. 

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Seriously

[Bozo]

10 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Our manning from the Assignments team brief is rather abysmal and not at all inline with the rest of the Line Officer's of the AF.

Yes, having seen/worked the 17D manning from the MAJCOM level it is amazing to behold the devastation.   My favorite line from the Officer Assignments Team (OAT) brief is: "Majors will be doing Lt Col's jobs, Capts will be doing Majors jobs, and LTs will be doing Capts jobs."   So...we won't promote you but we'll give you all the responsibility.

Oh, and is it just me for has the number of General Officer 17D billets been drastically cut?   I've only seen the inside of one MAJCOM HQ reorganization but the A6 one-star billet was cut when they combined the A2/3/6.

[17D_guy]

20 hours ago, Seriously said:

Classic bureaucrat concerned only with solving the bureaucracy's own problems. 

Just to be clear, he was quoting A1 and (in my opinion) did not appear to be in agreement with them.  While very professional and somewhat above it all, he appeared very bewildered at how things were being done.

12 hours ago, Bozo said:

Yes, having seen/worked the 17D manning from the MAJCOM level it is amazing to behold the devastation.   My favorite line from the Officer Assignments Team (OAT) brief is: "Majors will be doing Lt Col's jobs, Capts will be doing Majors jobs, and LTs will be doing Capts jobs."   So...we won't promote you but we'll give you all the responsibility.

Oh, and is it just me for has the number of General Officer 17D billets been drastically cut?   I've only seen the inside of one MAJCOM HQ reorganization but the A6 one-star billet was cut when they combined the A2/3/6.

Exactly on the working you in a higher position, for no more pay or additional benefits (ORB is not a "benefit"), or any mentoring.  I don't know the GO billets, but I'm fine with pilots running the show as long as they're like Wedge and actually care about the cyber mission.  I've not been impressed with the career cyber shiny pennies moving along, but I'm just a CGO.

There is a dearth of Career Cyber/Comm GO's that I can point to for examples to the coming Lt's.  I will say on factor is because the AF assesses a ton of prior-E guys, so even on the assignments team slides the yellow box of "retirement eligible" at 10 years is 3 times that of the rest of the AF.  With how the AF decides for future leaders, they're not going to waste their time (usually) on someone like me or any other prior-E who had actual time as a E versus the short stay the "prior-E" GO's had.

Through every merge the cyber guy's spot is always dropped.  Basically we're like RPA's, tons of lip service but come to actual support and leadership, then we become the afterthought.  We don't even get the flight suit.

[17D_guy]

No joy in promotion info through bro channels.

Sent from my Pixel using Baseops Network Forums mobile app

[17D_guy]

So, an interesting thing from the non-bag wearing ops world.  We have a bunch of legit keyboard ninjas that roll around in my area.  Since Skeletor took off all the ABU bling there's been little to distinguish legit cyber-operator from staff douches (me).  

Newish development, there's special tabs that go on individuals badge holders showing what cyber ops team they're from, if they've finished CNODP, or WIC.  Cool colors, with Sq/Unit flash.  All very military heritage like.

I fully support it because we should have separate recognition for the actual mission hackers (pun intended).

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

So, an interesting thing from the non-bag wearing ops world.  We have a bunch of legit keyboard ninjas that roll around in my area.  Since Skeletor took off all the ABU bling there's been little to distinguish legit cyber-operator from staff douches (me).  

Newish development, there's special tabs that go on individuals badge holders showing what cyber ops team they're from, if they've finished CNODP, or WIC.  Cool colors, with Sq/Unit flash.  All very military heritage like.

I fully support it because we should have separate recognition for the actual mission hackers (pun intended).

Any pics ?

[magnetfreezer]

1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

So, an interesting thing from the non-bag wearing ops world.  We have a bunch of legit keyboard ninjas that roll around in my area.  Since Skeletor took off all the ABU bling there's been little to distinguish legit cyber-operator from staff douches (me).  

Newish development, there's special tabs that go on individuals badge holders showing what cyber ops team they're from, if they've finished CNODP, or WIC.  Cool colors, with Sq/Unit flash.  All very military heritage like.

I fully support it because we should have separate recognition for the actual mission hackers (pun intended).

Don't the cyber patches wear... patches?

[17D_guy]

7 hours ago, magnetfreezer said:

Don't the cyber patches wear... patches?

Ah, Indeed.  But there's other quals and teams that get no recognition otherwise.  Mistype there.

 

8 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

Any pics ?

SCIF...and no badges outside.  

Edited December 28, 2017 by 17D_guy

[17D_guy]

So, Rocky Mountain AFCEA is in full effect this week.  Basically the place all the GO's go to hobnob with their future employers and actually get work done.

New AFSPC/CV preaching the truth about Cyber Ops Officers though -

"Skinner said his issue isn't with his airmen's ability or drive, but rather with how they are prepared.

He described an "overly homogenized" career field that promotes a "perpetual amateurism."

The Air Force cybersecurity career field has too few specialties, creating a "jack of all trades, master of none" approach to a rapidly evolving cyber battlefield.

"We need to continue growing a deep bench," he said."

We've been offered a retention bonus and people still aren't staying that are worth much.  Because there's the chance you'll get pulled off keyboard after your first/second assignment and go to a job that utilizes NONE of that experience.  Plus we've still got Col's who think that we can't be a AFSC with "Have's and Have Not's."  So from Cyber Ninja to Traditional Comm Sq should be looked at as good career progression, or to MAJCOM staff working the GO's cloud infrastructure project...or Win10 migration.

We're all considered 17D's...which makes it easy for AFPC to move us around...because that's what's important.

Edited March 9, 2018 by 17D_guy
trying to fix formatting...

[SuperWSO]

Concur. AFPC works to make sure Cyber operators never build any continuity or experience. The flying community doesn’t send people for a tour in KC-135s followed by a tour in F-22s followed by an ISR platform, but it is fairly standard to flip 17D/S officers from a CPT squadron to a Comm Flight to work as an exec.  57IAS at Nellis gets first tour LTs operating as Aggressors. There should be some career lanes for OCO, DCO, Infrastructure, etc.

[jazzdude]

 The flying community doesn’t send people for a tour in KC-135s followed by a tour in F-22s followed by an ISR platform

No, they send guys from C-17 to MC-12 to T-6, or RPA to C-17 to UPT.

But if there's one career field that needs better operator continuity, cyber is probably it.

[17D_guy]

Don't know if this goes here, or in the politics thread.  But good read and more info into Russian influence ops -

https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-lone-dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-slipped-up-and-revealed-he-was-a-russian-intelligence-officer?source=twitter&via=desktop

Edited March 23, 2018 by 17D_guy

[Fuzz]

Moved here for more appropriate discussion but the two links 17D posted for accessing the new outlook from your computer are now blocked by IE and Chrome due to invalid certificates. Any have any luck getting them to work?

 

[17D_guy]

55 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Moved here for more appropriate discussion but the two links 17D posted for accessing the new outlook from your computer are now blocked by IE and Chrome due to invalid certificates. Any have any luck getting them to work?

 

Son of a...

DOD certs aren't trusted by the browser vendors natively.  You have to import then on your own.  Does it show which certs are being denied?

[17D_guy]

Great news!

Gen Weggeman is getting another star and will be the ACC Vice...Deputy...whatever.  I might just stay in a little bit longer than necessary.

[stract]

On 6/23/2018 at 7:59 AM, Fuzz said:

Moved here for more appropriate discussion but the two links 17D posted for accessing the new outlook from your computer are now blocked by IE and Chrome due to invalid certificates. Any have any luck getting them to work?

 

I haven't had this yet because Hill hasn't migrated yet to the new cloud thing.  But, when I had this issue last year after getting my new Win 10 machine (invalid certificate, no more choice to continue to the website anyway), Edge worked like a champ.  So, try Edge if you haven't.  Way better than IE for 90% of the things I need a browser for.

[17D_guy]

Well,  

  It's official today - Wedge got his 3rd star and ACC is the home of Cyber.  Woooooooooooo!

https://www.acc.af.mil/News/Commentaries/Display/Article/203682/acc-afcyber-join-forces-to-provide-the-right-tools-for-cyber-success/

  Call it Air and Cyber Command, bitches.

[dusty]

Well,

 I feel like this would be a good place to ask a few questions. A little background to my situation. I was AD for 6 years as a 2WoX1 (Ammo) just recently got out, contract ended 2 days go. I took a ANG slot in Wi as a 2W0x1 and am attending UW-Milwaukee for my Bachelors of science in information science and Technology I have about 2.5 years left. Currently also in ROTC and will have to go to school for an additional semester just to meet the 3 year requirement.

1. I want to become a 17X should I just stick to playing these silly ROTC games (they really get on my nerves as most of these kids will go to the real AF and be completely miss informed on how the AF operates)or should I just quit get my degree and then commission? Rotc also takes away a lot of my time where I could have another class or even be able to work more. Already working almost 30 hours a week ROTC makes for some long day 0400-2300 since I work on the nights we have PT in the AM.

2. How is the day to day of a 17X is it all sitting at a computer, talking to chiefs who are computer illiterate or can it actually be fun and interesting?

3. Is it worth it for me to even commission to get "job experience" for the civilian sector if i was to retire? Got out of AD as a Senior Airman so no actually supervisor roles on my resume.

 

[17D_guy]

On 9/12/2018 at 8:49 PM, dusty said:

Well,

 I feel like this would be a good place to ask a few questions. A little background to my situation. I was AD for 6 years as a 2WoX1 (Ammo) just recently got out, contract ended 2 days go. I took a ANG slot in Wi as a 2W0x1 and am attending UW-Milwaukee for my Bachelors of science in information science and Technology I have about 2.5 years left. Currently also in ROTC and will have to go to school for an additional semester just to meet the 3 year requirement.

1. I want to become a 17X should I just stick to playing these silly ROTC games (they really get on my nerves as most of these kids will go to the real AF and be completely miss informed on how the AF operates)or should I just quit get my degree and then commission? Rotc also takes away a lot of my time where I could have another class or even be able to work more. Already working almost 30 hours a week ROTC makes for some long day 0400-2300 since I work on the nights we have PT in the AM.

2. How is the day to day of a 17X is it all sitting at a computer, talking to chiefs who are computer illiterate or can it actually be fun and interesting?

3. Is it worth it for me to even commission to get "job experience" for the civilian sector if i was to retire? Got out of AD as a Senior Airman so no actually supervisor roles on my resume.

 

Sorry, just saw this.

1. If I could do it all over again I'd do ROTC.  OTS is a gamble.  The games suck, but theirs those with every commissioning source.

2.  Sitting at a computer...yep.  Discussions aren't too bad, we're the AF so most people understand computers, what they don't understand are processes or lines of authority.  You'll explain those a lot.

3. Uh...it depends?  Officers in 17X are much more leadership with early years on keyboard (if you get ops).  If you get support they're almost all management.  1B4's are enlisted, and are almost all more on keyboard focused for the long run.  It really depends on what you want to do.

[17D_guy]

If someone with a lot of DOT experience could shoot me a PM I'd appreciate it.  I've got some air-breathing ops questions as we build out our cyber training requirements.

[17D_guy]

Greetings from Cyber-land.  Looks like we've started to develop a national strategy on how to impose costs on the enemy and threaten with "the cybers" just like when we park B-52s near North Korea -

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/23/us/politics/russian-hacking-usa-cyber-command.html

Fantastic read overall, specific part -

Quote

Cyber Command has also sent teams to Ukraine, Macedonia and Montenegro to build up defenses against Russian hackers intent on penetrating government networks on its doorstep in Eastern Europe.

The United States is helping Montenegro remove Russian cyberoperatives from nonclassified government systems, a senior Montenegrin official said. Painstaking work, the effort could take months to find and close all the access points Russian hackers have created. Russians have not penetrated the government’s classified systems, the official said.

Of additional interest is this Cyber National Mission Force twitter account which is dropping malware that's been discovered in the wild - https://twitter.com/CNMF_VirusAlert

Shit's getting real folks.  We're developing legit policy to inform strategy to impose legit costs on our enemy in this new domain.  I'm fucking excited.

As the DO of a Cyber Ops Unit getting the expeditionary/Ops mindset in our Airmen is...difficult.  Hopefully the "You're an instrument of National power projection" will help...if not, shit's about to get even more directive.

Additionally, getting some of the HHQ shoe clerks to think outside of TDY's to CONUS locations and what it takes to go to some of these places has been extremely difficult.  Required to wear civilian clothes...we need a civ clothing allowance for our E's.  The retired MSgt running XP shaking his head "No," since they can just go buy it out of pocket.  WTF.

Also, did you know that we've hired civilians onto our teams?  Did you know we're unable to order civilians to take missions?  They can just refuse.  Great planning AF!  I'm going to start throwing around "Gucci boys" as a slur. 

We're starting threat of the week next Friday, so if anyone's got a good template let me know.  Otherwise the 2Lt doing it can thrash and learn via pain.

Fuck I love this job. 

Thanks to everyone here for the guidance over the years, it's helping very much.