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Maj Gen Keltz fired

Duck

By Duck
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Bender Flight Lead

Bender

Posted
Posted

I have no knowledge of what was said, but I bet a solid, "What a fucking drunk" within earshot of the panel would be good enough to generate this result.

We'll find out the specifics eventually...

Bendy

M2 Gray Beard

M2

Posted
Posted
  On 5/1/2015 at 6:49 PM, Azimuth said:

Didn't 19th deactivate a few years ago?

It did, but it was resurrected...

  Quote
19AF was inactivated on 9 July 2012 as a cost-cutting measure by the Secretary of the Air Force. The command was reactivated on 1 October 2014 when it was determined that the cost-cutting measures did not reap the savings expected...
Jughead Gray Beard

Jughead

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 5/1/2015 at 2:19 PM, Duck said:

Anyone know what he said?

From the comments section of JQP's blog about it:

"SAPR training obviously hasn't worked because every time I see McSally talk about A-10s I get a tent in my flight suit." :notworthy:

Posted by "Jim Young"; you, sir, have won the internet for today!! :beer:

Edited by Jughead
Herk Driver Gray Beard

Herk Driver

Posted
Posted (edited)

It was not an inter webs "forum."

ThreeHoler and Vetter got it, except there are one too many zeros.

Edited by Herk Driver
Fifty-six & Two Flight Lead

Fifty-six & Two

Posted
Posted
  On 5/2/2015 at 2:35 AM, Herk Driver said:

Then the blog must be right...

Were you in the room and actually heard what Keltz said or are you just insinuating that the account given to TC is incorrect?

pawnman Gray Beard

pawnman

Posted
Posted
  On 5/1/2015 at 8:17 PM, ThreeHoler said:

Apparently comparing the accused to 10,000 drunk <insert race> is not cool.

Especially not BEFORE the court martial starts.

BFM this Gray Beard

BFM this

Posted
Posted
  On 5/2/2015 at 4:23 PM, Azimuth said:

It wasn't a court martial.

Which is interesting, because, as I read it, it should have gone that way.

As in, the Captain should have said: "Ima let you finish, general, but I will take the court martial now, thanks"

Azimuth Gray Beard

Azimuth

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 5/2/2015 at 8:44 PM, BFM this said:

Which is interesting, because, as I read it, it should have gone that way.

As in, the Captain should have said: "Ima let you finish, general, but I will take the court martial now, thanks"

The problem with that, minus the comment from Maj Gen Keltz, is that if he was found guilty there's much bigger punishment that could be given instead of one handed down from a Art 15. If he had any doubt (or the ADC/Defense) that he would be found guilty in a court martial, he was wise to take the Art 15.

Edited by Azimuth
  • Upvote 1
Dupe Gray Beard

Dupe

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 5/3/2015 at 12:34 AM, Azimuth said:

The problem with that, minus the comment from Maj Gen Keltz, is that if he was found guilty there's much bigger punishment that could be given instead of one handed down from a Art 15. If he had any doubt (or the ADC/Defense) that he would be found guilty in a court martial, he was wise to take the Art 15.

An ADC could press for a court martial then file to get the whole thing tossed due to undue command influence.

Edited by Dupe
Hacker Gray Beard

Hacker

Posted
Posted
  On 5/3/2015 at 3:06 AM, Dupe said:

An ADC could press for a court martial then file to get the whole thing tossed due to undue command influence.

FWIW, the term is "Unlawful" command influence. Depending on the situation, it can be a very serious charge leveled at a Commander.

That being said, ADCs also know that going to a Court-Martial is a very risky proposition if there is anything else in the respondent's history that could possibly be a detriment. Unlike in a civilian court, charges at a C-M can be modified, changed, or added to pretty much at the whim of the Government. While defense to a particuar charge may be relatively air-tight, the Government has the potential to go for the throat on something else (which is minor and unrelated to the primary event), especially if it is one of those catch-all charges like "conduct unbecoming" or "dereliction of duty".

guineapigfury Gray Beard

guineapigfury

Posted
Posted
  On 5/3/2015 at 12:34 AM, Azimuth said:

The problem with that, minus the comment from Maj Gen Keltz, is that if he was found guilty there's much bigger punishment that could be given instead of one handed down from a Art 15. If he had any doubt (or the ADC/Defense) that he would be found guilty in a court martial, he was wise to take the Art 15.

Sounds like the charged officer made the safe call. As an O, they can hit you less hard in an Article 15 than they can hit an E. A Court Martial can leave you with a criminal record, an Article 15 "just" ruins any chance for further promotion. Worst case they hit you with a fine equal to one months base pay.

HerkFE Gray Beard

HerkFE

Posted
Posted
  On 5/2/2015 at 12:24 PM, Fifty-six & Two said:

Yes, 04-05

Thanks. I thought the name sounded familiar.

Herk Driver Gray Beard

Herk Driver

Posted
Posted
  On 5/3/2015 at 3:06 AM, Dupe said:

An ADC could press for a court martial then file to get the whole thing tossed due to undue command influence.

Except for the fact that by this point the accused has already elected to accept the Article 15 process. Then the accused also asked to make a presentation and that it be made public. Those decisions then get us to this point...

Back to you regular sport bitching.

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