AFPAK Hands

[FUEL]

This... and this is me. It did/does interest me, at least forms of its previous life when there was the freedom of movement and ideally Islamabad, Pak vs Afghanistan. The associated language and country travel also interest me. 6th SOS, Intel, RAS, State Dept, or NGO are later in life desires, so it doubles as a resume builder. When I was a young Capt (and single) I put it on my ADP hoping I would get tagged out of desperation because of all the 7-day opt and "forced" retirements. No dice, instead I'm flying preds and those that don't want it are being "DT'd" into a job one has to want to be doing to be extremely successful. This is based on what I've read and the Hands that I've talked with that say you may end up being alone in pushing the program's goals and seeking out/anticipating problems. Without buy in, I find it hard to believe many would take the necessary risks or devote the required time to advance beyond the lacking language/cultural training provided.

It is a CJCS program (Adm Mullen created and prioritized) so the services are pressured to send their best and brightest to try and successfully engage with Afghanistan from citizens to policy makers.

It's difficult to attract young promising flyers because it doesn't fit our very specific career tracks, much like RAS can pull you away for too long to be "successful" (SQ/CC and beyond). And with the relatively large amount of "promising" candidates needed to fill AFPAK Hands slots it is bound to fall on flyers too. It doesn't help that it seems the AF is not actually giving the desired follow-on "career success" that chairman has directed the services to follow. A1 has not been known to be agile enough to accommodate something "different" or even successfully manage people period, as we all know. With the draw down I can only guess the freedom of movement originally making this program attractive to some is also diminishing along with any hope the AF will respect a Hand's future career.

Time to go remove it from my ADP, not that I could get out of the Pred to go do it anyway.

Edited May 17, 2015 by FUEL

[guineapigfury]

Time to go remove it from my ADP, not that I could get out of the Pred to go do it anyway.

On the plus side, we've actually found something good about being stuck in RPAs: at least you won't get sent to AFPAK Hands.

[Lord Ratner]

I've been told by those who sat on the recent O5 board that AFPAK hands was consistently ignored, and the packages (and associated LtCol hopefuls) suffered for it.

[Whitman]

Maybe instead the board could ignore Majors with wing exec on their record and follow CJCS direction and look after guys making such a huge sacrifice for this program. Anyone else notice a trend of the AF marching to the beat of its own drum without regard for the rest of DoD. I think something bad happened to Buzz Moseley last time he did this by ignoring the demand for ISR...oh ya he was fired.

[Homestar]

One of my buddies was non vol'd last week. Really hope he can find a way out...

C-17 pilot '06 year group

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AFPAK HANDS a post IDE thing for career broadening? How would a '06 guy get hit with something like this when he hasn't even pinned on yet?

For people interested in foreign area officer jobs post military this could be a good resume builder, but who in their right mind would want to dedicate themselves to learning, living, and loving those two countries?

[panchbarnes]

Big Blue simply does not care about properly developing and maintaining its Pol-Mil capabilities.

1. No FAO track (as opposed to USN/USA)

2. RAS/PAS must return to original AFSC or risk getting passed over

3. No APAC HANDS (as opposed to USN/USA), another CJCS-directed program, because we have RAS/PAS already (bogus reason)

4. Lack of communication/coordination between LEAP/AFCLC and SAF/IA

AFPAK HANDS are supposed to be on the O-6 track, but there stories of them being out-stratted by some AF GO's exec/aide.

[TMFan]

I've been mentoring young'ins for years to be afraid of this Bullshit program... Don't take the DLAB unless you have a very specific reason for taking it. No DLAB = No AFPAK Hands. Call me paranoid, but I won't be getting this shit sandwich. I guess I also won't get some sweet foreign IDE either. Since I had about a .001% chance of that anyway, I can live with it.

If you've already taken the DLAB, have a good score, and want to make yourself *less* competitive for AFPAK hands, don't forget you can retake the DLAB after 6 months. Sandbag it and your 69 will replace your 169 on your SURF.

[zach braff]

DLAB scare stories: Had a buddy/mentor tell me how important it was to get a DLAB score on file so I took it and got a good score similar to his. The next week he got nonvol'd into Middle East RAS w/Arabic by his DT. I freaked and thankfully found a different program with a language I wanted to learn shortly after, but it was close. Ended up on RAS track anyway through another program but it's using the language I like and a region I give a sh-t about. Although I think now all Majors+ are required to take DLAB (it was on my promotion RIP).

You consistently read in school/promotion PSDMs and such that they're not supposed to dock AFPAK hands and even give them special consideration, but it doesn't appear to be working. Likely this is because the AF hasn't followed CJCS intent of sending top dogs into the program though.

Anyway, if you are interested in that region or a future with agencies (or contractor $$$) involved with it…amazing. If you are not - shittiest deal ever.

zb

[MooseDriver1]

I feel bad for anyone associated with this terrible, waste of resources program. Do not walk away, RUN!

All the vectors comments and crap talk about taking the DLAB, no thanks.

[disgruntledemployee]

Someone/DT mentioned I should take the DLAB just like all the other boxes we should check. I left that one empty. I think I'm good to go with my future.

Out

[discus]

This program is a sink hole for all the other services too. I currently work with several Air Force, Navy, and Marine "Hands". The only one getting anything out of it is the Marine, who was put there simply as a holding pattern until he took over as a Squadron commander (C-130 pilot), and therefore it made no difference to him. One of the Navy dudes is an F/A-18 bubba, USNA grad, and getting tagged for this program will take him out of the cockpit...And promotion potential to O-4 for good.

[Herkasaurus]

Someone/DT mentioned I should take the DLAB just like all the other boxes we should check. I left that one empty. I think I'm good to go with my future.

Out

It's pretty amazing that the DLAB is in the strat matrix here at LRF. Because taking a test is a great differentiator in officership.

[GKinnear]

It's pretty amazing that the DLAB is in the strat matrix here at LRF.

A) Nothing AMC tracks on O's surprises me anymore

2) The PFA has more military applicability than the DLAB

[USAF Pilot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AFPAK HANDS a post IDE thing for career broadening? How would a '06 guy get hit with something like this when he hasn't even pinned on yet?

For people interested in foreign area officer jobs post military this could be a good resume builder, but who in their right mind would want to dedicate themselves to learning, living, and loving those two countries?

The program actually has Capts, Majs, Lt Cols, and Cols in it.

[Homestar]

Wow. I thought it was a post-DT vector only.

[Azimuth]

Guy in my Sq got tagged for this as he was on a deployment. Had to come home early to out process and PCS.

[10percenttruth]

In one of the only strokes of sanity I've seen in AFGSC in a long while, one of our folks got tagged as a volunteer with no family. Word on the streets was there were more than a few volunteers. If this program is as big of a family crusher as it sounds like, maybe somebody in the decision-making seat actually made the right decision.

Leadership actually made a pretty big deal of it, going so far as to bring it up at an OG/CC call. So maybe, in this community at least, that particular person will be taken care of on the backend. Here's hoping.

Edited May 21, 2015 by 10percenttruth