Vision waiver info

[SPAWNmaster]

Hi all, sorry if this is a weird question. I just got back from my FC1 at Wright-Patt. First of all, great team there and great experience (as great as it can be being poked and prodded so much).

My question is regarding the certainty of getting medically approved once issued waivers. I was written two waivers - one for an exophoria out of spec (12 prism diopters) and another for a small hole in my retina. The docs agreed to go to bat for me given that my other numbers are all very strong and they recommended (requested?) that I complete an annual follow up study.

Now according to a straw poll I did at the FC1, 3/4 of my cohort there had one or more waivers required. So is this sort of thing common enough where a waiver is considered a "sure thing"? Or should be I be sweating it, waiting for AETC to officially approve the medical packet + waivers before celebrating getting the waivers?

[deaddebate]

Short answer: yes, frequently.

I believe excessive phoria is lumped in with the Defective Depth Perception category.  Looking in the waiver guide, linked in my sig, it shows about a third of waivers for for FCI for retinal hole/tears are DQ'd.  The DP is probably unlikely to be DQ'd.  It is a definite possibility, but I wouldn't worry about it much.  I suspect the odds are in your favor.

[SPAWNmaster]

Thank you for the honest answer. I am 20/15 DP and the phoria was near. The optometrist and ophthalmologist both felt I had a strong case so I will hope for the best.

Was kind of trying to get an idea of whether I should celebrate quite yet or not (my selection and enlistment are all being kept close to the chest until we know for sure we can share the news with my broader family/friends circles).

You have answered my question thank you!

[stract]

Short answer: yes, frequently.

I believe excessive phoria is lumped in with the Defective Depth Perception category.  Looking in the waiver guide, linked in my sig, it shows about a third of waivers for for FCI for retinal hole/tears are DQ'd.  The DP is probably unlikely to be DQ'd.  It is a definite possibility, but I wouldn't worry about it much.  I suspect the odds are in your favor.

your sig block is MIA

[deaddebate]

your sig block is MIA

Ah.  My account was deleted in the conversion.  Should be fixed now.

[Hopefulflyer389]

Jumping in on the vision waiver band wagon here, my recent vision exam showed -2.75 in my left eye and -1.50 for my right, but my vision is correctable to 20/20. Should there be any concerns for not getting a waiver to fly fighters? I found the following "Vision & Refractive Error Standards" in AFI48-123, but it's dated 19 July 2012 and I can't seem to find and updated version. Also, I keep finding various answers to this with people that have similar vision.Thank you. 

Edited September 2, 2015 by Hopefulflyer389

[deaddebate]

Jumping in on the vision waiver band wagon here, my recent vision exam showed -2.75 in my left eye and -1.50 for my right, but my vision is correctable to 20/20. Should there be any concerns for not getting a waiver to fly fighters? I found the following "Vision & Refractive Error Standards" in AFI48-123, but it's dated 19 July 2012 and I can't seem to find and updated version. Also, I keep finding various answers to this with people that have similar vision.Thank you. 

That's the old standard.  Here's the current:

And here's the waiver criteria, if you exceed the levels above:

[stuckindayton]

Thank you for the honest answer. I am 20/15 DP and the phoria was near. The optometrist and ophthalmologist both felt I had a strong case so I will hope for the best.

Was kind of trying to get an idea of whether I should celebrate quite yet or not (my selection and enlistment are all being kept close to the chest until we know for sure we can share the news with my broader family/friends circles).

You have answered my question thank you!

I would not sweat it.  Dead Debate is right on that some waivers for excessive phoria are denied, however, sometimes that is due to the fact that they are associated with other conditions that are disqualifying.  When waivers are submitted to AETC, they do not approve parts of the waiver and deny others.  The entire waiver is either approved or denied.  So, let's say that you have a waiver submitted for excessive phoria and color vision.  Both will be denied (because color vision is not waived), despite the fact that the phoria might have been approved if it was the sole reason for the waiver.  Waivers for excessive phoria are fairly routine.  If you were told by docs at Wright-Patt that they were going to recommend a waiver, and the phoria was the only item out of standards, then you're pretty likely to get it approved

[Hopefulflyer389]

That's the old standard.  Here's the current:

And here's the waiver criteria, if you exceed the levels above:

 

Thanks deaddebate. I owe you a beer if the opportunity arises. It seems that I fall under a class I and IA. I'm assuming I would be categorized as a class IA as my left eye puts me into the lower class?

[deaddebate]

Thanks deaddebate. I owe you a beer if the opportunity arises. It seems that I fall under a class I and IA. I'm assuming I would be categorized as a class IA as my left eye puts me into the lower class?

No, if you're pursuing pilot, you'll probably get FCI with a myopia waiver.  Your vision doesn't dictate your desired category, it dictates whether you get approved, waivered or denied for a given category. 

[12xu2a3x3]

fast turn on this question would be appreciated:

I was diagnosed as 6-7 diopter prisms of exophoria (IIRC) while at flight medicine for my FC1. any guidance that I have been able to find specifies anything over 10 as disqualifying and requiring a workup, yet I was asked to get a workup done by a civilian. the civilian eye doctor used what he characterized as "more modern equipment" and put the measurement at 2-3 diopter prisms. my question is this:

what is current requirement?

how likely is this to be approved? should I get therapy to get my exophoria down to a more negligible amount? I'm going to get a second opinion to boslter my case.

[stuckindayton]

fast turn on this question would be appreciated:

I was diagnosed as 6-7 diopter prisms of exophoria (IIRC) while at flight medicine for my FC1. any guidance that I have been able to find specifies anything over 10 as disqualifying and requiring a workup, yet I was asked to get a workup done by a civilian. the civilian eye doctor used what he characterized as "more modern equipment" and put the measurement at 2-3 diopter prisms. my question is this:

what is current requirement?

how likely is this to be approved? should I get therapy to get my exophoria down to a more negligible amount? I'm going to get a second opinion to boslter my case.

The exophoria standard for IFC I is 6 prism diopters.  There is no stated waiver policy, however, I've seen exophoria up to 10 pd waived routinely and in some cases waivers are given for exos slightly larger.  At that point it's really a case-by-case basis.  I wouldn't seek vision therapy for this personally.

[deaddebate]

There are multiple ways to measure the phorias but I won't pretend to understand them.  Anyway, the FCI and FCII standard is 6 exophoria & 10 esophoria.  stuckindayton is correct--waiver likelihood is high.

ETA: Stupid Tapatalk.

[12xu2a3x3]

thanks all. even the doc who made the initial diagnosis felt good about it. in the hands of SG now. will it be an actual waiver?

[stuckindayton]

thanks all. even the doc who made the initial diagnosis felt good about it. in the hands of SG now. will it be an actual waiver?

If it's an FC I, it's actually sent to AETC, not the SG.  It sounds like a routine waiver.  I think you're stressing more than you need to.

fast turn on this question would be appreciated:

I was diagnosed as 6-7 diopter prisms of exophoria (IIRC) while at flight medicine for my FC1. any guidance that I have been able to find specifies anything over 10 as disqualifying and requiring a workup, yet I was asked to get a workup done by a civilian. the civilian eye doctor used what he characterized as "more modern equipment" and put the measurement at 2-3 diopter prisms. my question is this:

what is current requirement?

how likely is this to be approved? should I get therapy to get my exophoria down to a more negligible amount? I'm going to get a second opinion to boslter my case.

I don't understand why you'd be seeing a civilian for an FC I exam.  That's not how it usually works.

[12xu2a3x3]

I don't understand why you'd be seeing a civilian for an FC I exam.  That's not how it usually works.

flight medicine sent me to see a civilian for therapy, he pumped the breaks on that. i'm in the guard not the ad, maybe since i'm a civilian applicant as far as they're concerned, they sent me to a civilian doctor for follow on.

[stuckindayton]

flight medicine sent me to see a civilian for therapy, he pumped the breaks on that. i'm in the guard not the ad, maybe since i'm a civilian applicant as far as they're concerned, they sent me to a civilian doctor for follow on.

I don't know anyone who would do vision therapy for a 6-7 prism diopter exophoria.  If everything is as you described, I would just relax and let the system do its thing.  Unless there's more to the story you should be fine.

[SPAWNmaster]

Hi All, I just wanted to follow up, just got the news that my waivers were approved. Below is an abbreviated rundown of my experience - hopefully this information will be helpful to others:

In all, I had 3 waivers. 1 for childhood history of asthma before the age of 11 (approved indefinitely following complete pulmonary functional test and methylcholine challenge at Wright-Patterson FC1 9/2015). 1 waiver for exophoria of 12 prism diopters that was asymptomatic and self-correcting. 1 waiver for a retinal hole that is asymptomatic. Both vision waivers up for renewal september 2018.

I was advised that because of my airframe (HH60 pave hawk) both from a performance perspective (e.g. not going high altitude, not pulling many g's like in vipers, etc) as well as from a manpower perspective (pressure from the NGB to get butts in seats) that they were willing to write the waivers for me. I was given a range of 4-6 weeks for the AETC determination, they had the waivers approved and in the system in 3 weeks. However my unit was not notified and when my supervisor contacted her medical contacts, we were told there was still no results (as recently as a few days ago she made this phone call). However, NGB had given me slots for OTS and UPT so I figured they had to have a good indication about it. Turns out results were in the system - and all I had to do was walk over to our on-base medical squadron and have one of the docs log into the system. Waivers and flight physical all had been approved weeks prior. Not sure why we weren't sent official notification since the flight docs at Wright-Patterson said that would be the procedure but either way it's good news. This was just my own experience, but hopefully might give ideas to folks who are waiting in limbo or wondering about these sorts of waivers.

[Token1]

hi guys wondering if anyone has had a similar issue,

at my MEP/s physical I only passed line C on the depth perception test (not that I really remember not being able to see past it, I looked into it for all of 30 seconds when the lady said "you passed") I didn't think anything of it until I was told I needed line D for air crew. (pilot applicant) I have never had any issue with my eyes before, and have had a few comprehensive eye work ups in my college years. I have 20/40 left eye 20/25 in right, so I do wear glasses. anyway I had to order a new pair of glasses last week (1day before test they arrived) . I am retaking my test today at Andrews clinic. I didn't think anything of it until this morning when I was driving and took them off to clean and put back on and noticed that things did appear a little closer. is there any chance my new glasses are affecting this? how should I approach the test? ask if I can do it with out them? I currently hold a FAA class 1 if that matters.

any advice would be great

thanks!

[deaddebate]

The test with correction is what counts because that's what you'll wear in the seat. You should be performing better with your lenses. Either your eyes aren't used to the new prescription or the prescription isn't what it should be.

Read the info linked below. It's a little outdated but still accurate.

https://www.afforums.com/index.php?threads/depth-perception-information-updated-23-sep-2012.42225/

[Token1]

ok thanks. im going to bring my prescription with me, I have had mil doctors my whole life (father retired 06). so maybe they can relook/check my eyes while im there.

[RC87]

Hi All,

Looking for some advice here, as I am absolutely not giving up on this. I had PRK completed back in 2012 and haven't had a single issue since. I received a Guard UPT slot after serving my time in the Marine Corps. I was just informed that I was PDQ'd at MEPS which was a huge shock to both me and my recruiter, and I am aware that PDQ is pretty much a death sentence. Turns out the refraction error they came up with after my outside consultation was +.25 outside the allowable difference from a recent eye exam (in one eye only). This recent exam was a month prior, and unfortunately for me stated both eyes were Plano. Long story short I just found my original eye doctor did not include accurate exam results (refraction) due to such negligible corrections. Sadly I was unaware at the time since he had me labeled as Plano and trusted it was 100% accurate. The auto-refract from that appointment shows a refract in line with what the MEPS consult provided, so I have some proof of a mistake.

I have since had 2 more eye exams, ensuring they were at least 2 weeks after the MEPS consult (in accordance to RS waiver guide). One of these being with my original doctor and another with completely different one. Full refraction was completed and again, was within +/-.50 diopters of the MEPS consult.

Original Paperwork (problem): Plano Plano

MEPS Consult: OD: -.25 +.50 x 90 OS: -.50 +.75 x 90

Recent appt 1: OD: -25 x 180 OS: -50 x 180

Recent appt 2: OD: -.25 + .50 x 90 OS: -.50 + .75 x 90

How can I fight this after what has come up? I am looking for any opinions or thoughts. I am fighter by nature, and I just want the chance to get an FC1 completed. If I DQ there, I DQ. It'd be a shame to be fully qualified and denied the dream and opportunity due to something like this.

These last appointments were done in accordance with the RS Waiver Guide from WP other than dilation, and show a stable refraction.

 

[stuckindayton]

On 3/19/2016 at 1:21 AM, RC87 said:

 

Hi All,

Looking for some advice here, as I am absolutely not giving up on this. I had PRK completed back in 2012 and haven't had a single issue since. I received a Guard UPT slot after serving my time in the Marine Corps. I was just informed that I was PDQ'd at MEPS which was a huge shock to both me and my recruiter, and I am aware that PDQ is pretty much a death sentence. Turns out the refraction error they came up with after my outside consultation was +.25 outside the allowable difference from a recent eye exam (in one eye only). This recent exam was a month prior, and unfortunately for me stated both eyes were Plano. Long story short I just found my original eye doctor did not include accurate exam results (refraction) due to such negligible corrections. Sadly I was unaware at the time since he had me labeled as Plano and trusted it was 100% accurate. The auto-refract from that appointment shows a refract in line with what the MEPS consult provided, so I have some proof of a mistake.

I have since had 2 more eye exams, ensuring they were at least 2 weeks after the MEPS consult (in accordance to RS waiver guide). One of these being with my original doctor and another with completely different one. Full refraction was completed and again, was within +/-.50 diopters of the MEPS consult.

Original Paperwork (problem): Plano Plano

MEPS Consult: OD: -.25 +.50 x 90 OS: -.50 +.75 x 90

Recent appt 1: OD: -25 x 180 OS: -50 x 180

Recent appt 2: OD: -.25 + .50 x 90 OS: -.50 + .75 x 90

How can I fight this after what has come up? I am looking for any opinions or thoughts. I am fighter by nature, and I just want the chance to get an FC1 completed. If I DQ there, I DQ. It'd be a shame to be fully qualified and denied the dream and opportunity due to something like this.

These last appointments were done in accordance with the RS Waiver Guide from WP other than dilation, and show a stable refraction.

 

"Recent appt1" is missing the sphere portion (the first number).  Also, "recent appt1" was written in minus cylinder while "recent appt2" was written in plus cylinder, but when you transpose, the axis of the two are in agreement.  Assuming the missing sphere numbers in appt1 are on pace with appt2, I see nothing here that would be disqualifying. Are you scheduled for an FC I exam?  If so, there should be no issue.  If they are trying to DQ you and not give you the chance for an FC I, you should appeal the decision.  Is there a flight doc you have had contact with?  I would think/hope they would help.

[RC87]

3 hours ago, stuckindayton said:

"Recent appt1" is missing the sphere portion (the first number).  Also, "recent appt1" was written in minus cylinder while "recent appt2" was written in plus cylinder, but when you transpose, the axis of the two are in agreement.  Assuming the missing sphere numbers in appt1 are on pace with appt2, I see nothing here that would be disqualifying. Are you scheduled for an FC I exam?  If so, there should be no issue.  If they are trying to DQ you and not give you the chance for an FC I, you should appeal the decision.  Is there a flight doc you have had contact with?  I would think/hope they would help.

Thank you for the reply. The sphere in appt 2 is the same.  I was PDQ at MEPS due to the cyclo, so I am unable to have my recruiter schedule the FC I. Not in touch with a flight doc yet, but was thinking the same thing since I will be Guard.

Edited March 20, 2016 by RC87

[RC87]

On 3/20/2016 at 10:26 AM, RC87 said:

Thank you for the reply. The sphere in appt 2 is the same.  I was PDQ at MEPS due to the cyclo, so I am unable to have my recruiter schedule the FC I. Not in touch with a flight doc yet, but was thinking the same thing since I will be Guard.

So I received more bad news today. I submitted the appeal to MEPS where it was again denied, and was told the information made it worse versus better. My biggest worry is they had trouble determining the MEPS eval over the erroneous information. Working to find what it was they thought was "worse". Everything I submitted shows I am within the .50 diopter range needed for a PRK waiver and 20/20 in both eyes confirmed by 3 separate doctors. Should the erroneous information be pulled from the appeal completely? Next up is the Guard Bureau.