Vision waiver info

[Guest Foghorn]

Originally posted by Stavy:

Im still within those requirements. Would LASIK allow me to get waived?

I'm in my second year of ROTC right now. I've wanted to fly forever, so I started talking to my cadre right away about what I would have to do as far as vision goes to get that chance.

I looked at the paperwork with one of the NCO's, and it clearly states you need PRK (at least right now) to be admitted for a waiver. So, after carefully reading all the paperwork on it, I went and had PRK done in June 2006. So far, things are going well.

The way it works is I get checked every month for the first three months, then again at six months, then again at a year and have paperwork the AF gave me filled out and returned to DODMERB. If I have a stable refraction between the six month and year checkup, I'm eligible for a waiver.

I took a fair risk here. If something goes wrong with my vision, I can kiss my commission (much less flight) goodbye. On the other hand, I'd sooner take the chance and miss than never try at all.

I'm not telling you to get vision surgery or that this was the only way I could ever possibly fly. I'm just telling you about the decision I made based on the information I had (though I do think I made the right decision).

[Guest P27:17]

Foghorn/Stavy,

The PRK (not LASIK) process as explained above is fairly typical. It is an awesome alternative for someone who will not meet the maximum allowable uncorrected vision standards/refractive error standards. The general rules of thumb are:

- Don't get it too early (age wise)

- Pr-op cycloplegic can not exceed -5.50

- Do all required follow-ups after the surgery

- Understand you can not go to Brooks for at least 1 year after your surgery

The chances, and there are some, of problems arising from the PRK are very small.

PRK is OK...LASIK is not OK!

[Guest mbc]

Originally posted by Rage_:P:

The AF standard is much higher than FAA standards. We don't accept the light gun at all. Also, the FAA accepts 7 of 14 PIP I plates as color normal. Color normal for our pilot applicants includes:

PIP I (minimum passing score 10/14 in both eyes...tested monocularly - one eye at a time).

PIP II (minimum passing score 9/10 tested monocularly).

PIP III (minimum passing score 9/10 tested monocularly).

F2 Pass or Fail.

I was recently dq'd at Brooks for color deficiency after supposedly failing the anomaloscope. I passed all of the tests above. I don't understand why I was required to take approximately 10+ color vision tests at Brooks. I'm concerned that a flag was raised after the possibility of misunderstanding the med tech instructions on a test and attempted to identify a number or letter in a color plate even though there was nothing there and I didn't see anything but I still attempted to find a pattern. Technically, If I passed all the tests above, then I should be considered "color normal." I'm now exploring my options but not really sure where to start. Any suggestions or feedback?

[Guest Lia]

My understanding is that the anomaloscope is pretty much the be all end all for AF color vision testing. They utilize the other tests to screen for deficiencies and once there is a "flag raised" they utilize the anomaloscope to accurately diagnose the type and severity of the deficiency. My husband was also DQ'd at Brooks due to a color vision deficiency. There isn't too much recourse for you once that happens. I would suggest a search for "color vision" and you should come up with the regulations for AF color vision. Also, you can visit the MFS website and they have the requirements listed there also. I'm sorry to hear about your DQ. It is so frustrating to go through so much and then have it end like that!

[gimmeaplane]

Your only recourse for failing anamaloscope is an ETP. Even if a bunch of generals to decide that you're "exceptional" enough to be an ETP candidate (after the selection process decided you're among the most apt of the UPT candidates), once it goes to AF/CV (vice CSAF), this is what happens:

1) AF/CV tasks AF/SG (3-star top doc) to render an opinion

2) AF/SG tasks Brooks to give an opinion

3) Brooks (same guys that DQ'd you to begin with) tell AF/SG that you're "too risky" or something along those lines

4) AF/CV follows AF/SG advice, sends a letter to your MAJCOM saying "sorry, no can do"

5) Some "less apt" runner-up* from the bottom of the UPT candidate pool is now going to UPT

It's a downer, but know the odds before you start the fight. If you can think up a different way to fight it, pass the gouge!

* - who may turn out to be a rock star pilot, mind you

[Guest DOVER]

I was unable to find anything in the forums that pertained to my specific situation so I am posting this in hope of finding out some answers. Here is my situation:

I am a currently in ABM training, just shy of 2 months from graduation. Its been a long and challenging training program to say the least, but I digress. I had my annual flight physical (FC III) only to find out that I have problems with my vision, specifically my left eye. After being unable to pass the depth perception test I was referred to an ophthalmologist for further review. Basically I have 20/20 vision in my right eye and 20/50 vision in my left eye, and was told that I have a "lazy eye", hence the failure on the depth perception test. He gave me a prescription for glasses, which are currently on order, but told me that glasses would improve my vision by a few "points" (?) but would NOT improve it enough to be 20/20 and then mentioned the word "waiver".

Following that appointment I met with the flight doc who cleared my 1042 so I am not DNIC or DNIF and can continue training and live control, since it isn't affecting my ability to do the job. In order to begin the waiver process I have to meet again with the ophthalmologist for a laundry list of additional tests in about 2 weeks to be forwarded up to HQ. Is there any hope that my waiver request will be granted?

[Guest P27:17]

All flying classes must be correctable to 20/20. If you were applying for IFC III I'd say you wouldn't get a waiver but since you are (almost) trained there might be a chance.

Tough call from my perspective...I don't see many FC IIIs. Maybe one of the Docs has seen something similar to this before...

[Guest DOVER]

All flying classes must be correctable to 20/20. If you were applying for IFC III I'd say you wouldn't get a waiver but since you are (almost) trained there might be a chance.

Tough call from my perspective...I don't see many FC IIIs. Maybe one of the Docs has seen something similar to this before...

I hope the fact that I have come this far and it hasn't hindered me from doing the job will help me get the waiver through. Any more info would be appreciated at least to help put my mind at ease knowing wheter or not I will be able to keep my job ...

[Guest Rage_:P]

I know I'm reading into this, but...

My guess is you are training to do Space Missile Ops Duty (AFSC - 13S). Thus...you don't need to meet FCIII standards...you need to meet SMOD requirements. As such...all you need to be is 20/20 in your better eye. That's why they put you back in the course and why my phone wasn't ringing off the hook that we had a guy w/ bad vision in the middle of a training course!

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Rage_:P

[Guest gammacles]

Alright guys, I've searched extensively and still cannot find an answer to this. I've got waiverable vision according to Rage (within 20/200 uncorrected, myopia and astigmatism within limits, corrected to 20/20 or better). So here's my question:

What happens if/when my vision waiver is approved?

Do I get PRKed by AF docs before OTS? Its the only thing that makes sense, though I havent read it on this forum or elsewhere. And if this is the case, what happens if post-PRK vision doesnt pass inspection?

Thanks a lot!

[Buddy Spike]

Alright guys, I've searched extensively and still cannot find an answer to this. I've got waiverable vision according to Rage (within 20/200 uncorrected, myopia and astigmatism within limits, corrected to 20/20 or better). So here's my question:

What happens if/when my vision waiver is approved?

Do I get PRKed by AF docs before OTS? Its the only thing that makes sense, though I havent read it on this forum or elsewhere. And if this is the case, what happens if post-PRK vision doesnt pass inspection?

Thanks a lot!

You wear glasses when you fly.

[PET-Shot]

Alright guys, I've searched extensively and still cannot find an answer to this. I've got waiverable vision according to Rage (within 20/200 uncorrected, myopia and astigmatism within limits, corrected to 20/20 or better). So here's my question:

What happens if/when my vision waiver is approved?

Do I get PRKed by AF docs before OTS? Its the only thing that makes sense, though I havent read it on this forum or elsewhere. And if this is the case, what happens if post-PRK vision doesnt pass inspection?

Thanks a lot!

Getting a waiver for your vision does not mean that you are going to get PRK done. Being approved for a waiver simply means that you will be allowed to fly with vision that does not completely meet the set standards.

Edited March 19, 2007 by PET-Shot

[Guest awfltdoc]

CRS Policy Letter

See corneal refractive surgery letter above for PRK info.

If you are waivered for your current vision you will be allowed to fly with glasses. If you desire you can be enrolled in the soft contact lens program (see your local flight surgeon).

You will not automatically get PRK for getting the vision waiver. If you ultimately do get PRK you will need a waiver for that.

If the post PRK exam is outside of limits and not fixable then you may not be allowed to fly.

Edited March 19, 2007 by awfltdoc

[Guest awfltdoc]

I should have mentioned also, if you do wish to start UPT wearing soft contact lenses, you must be in the approved lenses and using the approved solutions 6 months prior to starting UPT. The lenses and solutions are out of pocket costs for the UPT student.

[Guest pilotsingerole]

Concerning UPT and contacts...

If you don't wear SCL at all in UPT are you allowed to start later on in your flying career? In other words, could you start the 6 month trial period once you go on active duty and simply wear the contacts everywhere you go EXCEPT in the cockpit?

I will not have 6 months before UPT to go through this trial period, but I really want to wear contacts rather than glasses in the cockpit. Could I start with contacts anyway and overlap the trial period into UPT a little bit? What do they allow?

Thanks

[Guest P27:17]

"You will not automatically get PRK for getting the vision waiver. If you ultimately do get PRK you will need a waiver for that."

Once you've had PRK, you can not be put in for an IFC I waiver until one year post-op (prior to UPT).

So if you are with in the waiver standards now...why risk it?

[Guest iloveflying333]

I went for a DODMERB physical back in 2003 when I was getting into NROTC. I have since left NROTC and will probably be joining AFROTC in the coming months. I was told I will need to take another DODMERB so I can try to "pre qual" for pilot. During my time in NROTC, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to make a copy of my DODMERB exam. I have had problems with depth preception in the past, but after working with a vision doctor, I was able to pass the Randot test with 30 arc seconds :). The doctor for the eye exam wrote zero for both eso and exo phoria as well as LT ^ Hyper. He wrote 2.5 for RT^Hyper. I assume this is for hyperphoria, although tropia is also in the same column, so I'm not sure what he meant. Can I get a waiver for being 1 whole point off of the max hyperphoria (max is 1.5)? Also does it matter that my point of convergence was 60mm? I passed the cover test.

thanks for your help!

[Guest pilotsingerole]

Hey, I wrote you a response to your other question as well...

If you had a hyper(tropia), then you would definately know it. You would be seeing double everywhere you looked...or you'd have a serious case of suppression in one eye. I doubt that is what the doctor meant. THose things would have been caught already in previous eye exams...they're hard to miss. I believe he meant a hyperphoria or I would think there'd be little chance of you pursuing a pilot slot with the aforementioned issues!

From what I know, hyperphoria is the most serious of all phoria types. In other words, it's overlooked less because it is less common. However, I do not know if the AF would choose to "overlook" your 1 pd over as it would if you had an exo or an esophoria. My FC-1 was delayed for 6 months because essentially I have a prominant near exophoria (7 diopters - regulations say 6 is max allowable). I learned, however, that near phorias aren't as serious - it's the distant ones that are. My distant exophoria was meansured at 4 diopters (within the limits). So, what I am trying to say is that when it comes to phorias, the AF seems very case-by-case. It is definately not cut and dry. I had no trouble passing all the depth tests and the RLT. If you can pass those then they are likely to waive your phoria (especially if it is at near gaze only). However, if you have trouble with the depth tests and/or the RLT, your chances take a nose-dive...and they'll blame it on the phroia. ;)

Good luck!

[Guest tkc10chief]

I finished my flying class 1A physical for a NAV slot on 15 March 07 and had the following issues:

1) My near sight was 20/50 and regs are at 20/40 for Class 1A

2) My refraction errors were -3.50 and -3.25, regs are at -2.75

- My stigmatism was at -2.00 and -1.75 which is within regs though

I passed all other medical requirements with ease including color and depth perception. My physical is currently sitting in the flight docs inbox awaiting his signature and waivers. It seems that the surgeon general has not been in the waiver approving mood lately and I am concerned that my eyesight even though waiverable may not pass the surgeon generals kosher check and get kicked back. Does anyone know if this is waiverable by the current surgeon general since it seems to be up to his discression.

07OT01 Nav Select

Prior Enlisted - working on 4 years now

Edited April 12, 2007 by Toro

[Guest NoleMet]

Don't know if this helps, but I was 20/400 (correctable to 20/20) with a cycloplegic refraction of:

R: -3.25 -0.25x057

L: -2.00 -0.50x180

And I was waivered (took forever, but that's another story). The biggest cause for concern that I would see for you is your astigmatism. One of the flight docs on here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they add the astigmatism to your refraction, which is where 'any meridian' comes in. That would bump your refective error 'in any meridian' up considerably. Good luck getting your waiver.

[Guest tkc10chief]

Don't know if this helps, but I was 20/400 (correctable to 20/20) with a cycloplegic refraction of:

R: -3.25 -0.25x057

L: -2.00 -0.50x180

And I was waivered (took forever, but that's another story). The biggest cause for concern that I would see for you is your astigmatism. One of the flight docs on here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they add the astigmatism to your refraction, which is where 'any meridian' comes in. That would bump your refective error 'in any meridian' up considerably. Good luck getting your waiver.

I was told the "any meridian" is the -3.25 and -3.50 after the addition of the astigmatism. The optometrist said that I had -1.75 astigmatism and -1.25 correction error in one eye = -3.50. My other eye was -2.00 astigmatism with a -1.25 correction error = -3.25. I don't really know exactly what the numbers mean, I just know it is something about the strength to correct my eyes to 20/20 which they are with glasses/contacts. I hope that the surgeon general is generous this time around and certifies my physical.

[Guest P27:17]

+3:00 and -4.50 are the waiverable limits for Nav.

So if your refraction is -3.75 -1.75 in the right eye it would come out to -5.50 and be over the maximum...same formula for the other eye. if you have -2.75 -1.75...it would come out to -4.50 and be waiverable...so I'm not sure what your full refractive error is (by cycloplegic exam) and how you fit into this formula.

[jimbobpow13]

Hello,

I just had my vision tests...I'm not sure if it was a cycloplegic refraction or manifest. The doctor didn't put any drops in until after I said which lens looks better. Anyways, I think it was a manifest, are these results completely differant then cyclo?

R: -1.50, -1.25

L -1.50, -1.00

How are my chances for a waiver? I am going to brooks in the beginning of Nov for my FC1.

Thanks,

J

[Guest P27:17]

Hello,

I just had my vision tests...I'm not sure if it was a cycloplegic refraction or manifest. The doctor didn't put any drops in until after I said which lens looks better. Anyways, I think it was a manifest, are these results completely differant then cyclo?

R: -1.50, -1.25

L -1.50, -1.00

How are my chances for a waiver? I am going to brooks in the beginning of Nov for my FC1.

Thanks,

J

Manifest and cyclo's usually produce different numbers...if this is a cyclo you exceed the waiverable limits for pilot.

You need to know what your cyclo (corrected to 20/20...not best corrected) is. Best corrected will be higher...

[Guest 1point9turbo]

Hey, first post on the forum here but I know this is a touchy subject on a couple of different forums. I went down to brooks (from AFROTC btw) and got a wiaver for depth perception. There is nothing wrong with my depth perception but rather the way I perceive the test...which is apparently a more and more common thing according to the flight doc.

i have a syndrome called Monofixation which means that your eyes cannot bifixate (each focusing on different things at the same time (i think)). Basically, the way you are tested via the OVT machine, there are 2 slightly different pictures and your brain adds the input from each eye and you see whatever it is in 3-d. if you can't bifixate, you cannot pass this test. I was real nervous when i was down there because i knew that i failed this horribly. you have to look at the little circles and tell them which one is closer to you. through the OVT, i couldnt see any difference... they all looked the same. i knew i failed when i asked "what if they all look the same?" and the sergeant promptly turned the machine off.

they gave me alternate tests where both eyes focus on one thing... like an object projected on the wall, from a book or in a box and i passed all of them. they wrote it up, sent it to AETC and i was waivered. basically, my advice is that if you cannot pass a test, they will test you in other ways to make sure it was not just a fluke. with that said, if you deserve to pass, you will.

my situation, i was waivered and have to be retested using the same tests i passed every 3 years. i think this is the typical waiver process. and the waiver isnt really like a waiver, the flight doc said that AETC just wants to know why you didnt pass the standard test that they give everyone.

Hope this helps someone who needs information on this. I know I could not find anything when I was down in brooks frantic thinking I was going to fail. cheers!