Vision waiver info

[Guest JSpoon]

My waiver for my refractive error just got submitted to AETC. My refractive error is -2.25 in both eyes no other issues. How is AETC about granting this wavier. Doctors at Brooks said I would be fine, but in the mean time it is all I can think about. Thanks for any feedback.

[Jon - Trident Home Loans]

As long as there was nothing else then you should be fine. I have one for a -2.75. Might take a little while to process though.

[aspec]

Can't believe this thread is still alive. Posted this thread four years ago when I was just graduating high school because I was worried about my vision. Well, it's a little over four years now and I'm happy to say everything worked out. Thanks a bunch to all the people on this forum that answered my questions throughout the years (Rage and FlightDoc especially). Commissioned back in June and will be starting UPT next year. Here are my eye exam results from Brooks:

20/50 BY -1.75 S. -0.50 CX 100

20/40 BY -1.50 S. sphere CX --

Ended up not needing a waiver since I guess I was within the tolerable limits. The optometrist at Brooks really helped me get through those eye tests.

[Guest jgill505]

Hey, got my prescription here and just wanted to make sure I am interpreting it correctly. The prescription for my eyeglasses reads (not sure if it is cyclo or manifest):

OD: Plano, -1.50 x 180

OS: +.25, -1.25 x 175

Assuming my eyes haven't gotten any worse since my last exam, I will still need a waiver (if it is even waiverable) for the .25 D of farsightedness in my left eye, since near vision must be 20/20 uncorrected right? Everything else falls within limits though right? Oh and I'm applying for a pilot slot in the 09OT03 board, Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers

[Guest P27:17]

Hey, got my prescription here and just wanted to make sure I am interpreting it correctly. The prescription for my eyeglasses reads (not sure if it is cyclo or manifest):

OD: Plano, -1.50 x 180

OS: +.25, -1.25 x 175

Assuming my eyes haven't gotten any worse since my last exam, I will still need a waiver (if it is even waiverable) for the .25 D of farsightedness in my left eye, since near vision must be 20/20 uncorrected right? Everything else falls within limits though right? Oh and I'm applying for a pilot slot in the 09OT03 board, Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers

It's a manifest...you need a cyclo where they dilate your eyes...(corrected to 20/20 only...not best correction)...to determine if you need a waiver or not. That's the only way...

Where did you get the idea that you had to be 20/20 uncorrected?

Look, before Toro drops a "Fat Man" nuke on you...look this stuff up...hundreds of entries and reference to AFI 48-123 and the waiver guid

Edited November 11, 2008 by P27:17
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[Guest goducks]

Hey, got my prescription here and just wanted to make sure I am interpreting it correctly. The prescription for my eyeglasses reads (not sure if it is cyclo or manifest):

OD: Plano, -1.50 x 180

OS: +.25, -1.25 x 175

Assuming my eyes haven't gotten any worse since my last exam, I will still need a waiver (if it is even waiverable) for the .25 D of farsightedness in my left eye, since near vision must be 20/20 uncorrected right? Everything else falls within limits though right? Oh and I'm applying for a pilot slot in the 09OT03 board, Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers

You'll be fine. Unless things change significantly you shouldn't need a waiver. Even if they do change some, you've got lots of wiggle room in the waiver arena. Take a good pair of glasses with you to Brooks, you will need to use lens correction to pass the vision tests.

[mhc257]

This seemed like the appropriate thread...

Assuming I don't need any waivers, how slowly are things moving through Brooks nowadays? Crossing my fingers MEPS stops dragging and I can get my FC-1 done before the New Year. If it's not approved by Feb 27, I'll be on the streets waiting until September for the next AFRC board.

[Guest P27:17]

This seemed like the appropriate thread...

Assuming I don't need any waivers, how slowly are things moving through Brooks nowadays? Crossing my fingers MEPS stops dragging and I can get my FC-1 done before the New Year. If it's not approved by Feb 27, I'll be on the streets waiting until September for the next AFRC board.

You first need to get with HQ AFRC/SG to get on the Brooks schedule...chances before the New Year are 0...they don't see exams again until Jan 5th.

The physical process can be done (upon SG request) in a couple of weeks barring any extensive DQ issues...soit's between you and AFRC/SG on how "slowly" the process will go...

[Guest r6pilot]

I was told when I was there a couple months ago that the average time is about four weeks. Good luck with that!

[mhc257]

You first need to get with HQ AFRC/SG to get on the Brooks schedule...chances before the New Year are 0...they don't see exams again until Jan 5th.

The physical process can be done (upon SG request) in a couple of weeks barring any extensive DQ issues...soit's between you and AFRC/SG on how "slowly" the process will go...

2 week vacation? Not that I don't trust you, but is this from an official source? HQ seemed to know nothing about this last week, nor does my recruiter.

[Guest P27:17]

2 week vacation? Not that I don't trust you, but is this from an official source? HQ seemed to know nothing about this last week, nor does my recruiter.

You will see that in the AF...the week of Christmas and the week after are not typical work weeks. Too many people on leave...too many "parties"...call Brooks and see how many folks they plan on seeing between tomorrow and 1 Jan 09...then call other bases and see how available services are during those 2 weeks.

Don't be discouraged if you have a difficult time reaching a "live body"...

I was told when I was there a couple months ago that the average time is about four weeks. Good luck with that!

I've heard the briefing Brooks gives...and you only heard what you wanted to hear...as I recall they say that you should know something within 3 months...that things CAN happen sooner (4 weeks?) but to give it 2 or 3 months before asking or looking for results...maybe you had a different briefing...

[Guest r6pilot]

In the main "holding room" before we were released on Tuesday, we were told between 4-6 weeks with four weeks being the current trend. (This was about three months ago.) I did have LASIK which added to the time, I'm guessing. Add on to that I was getting "age sensitive" and had some people asking me every week or two where it was.

Heck, when I was there, there were two other Guard dudes and they were BOTH headed to UPT within the next couple months (already done with AMS). How can they start UPT with the FC1/MFS not even being approved? They must have fast-tracked it because one guy was already two to three weeks into ENJJPT before I even heard back about mine.

If it was really 2-3 months, that would be fine, but I've heard so much conflicting stuff about the process that I didn't know what to believe. Everything from length of time to approval to what time you should book your flight out of beautiful San Antonio.

[Guest SCtrojan]

Reviving this thread because I searched through it and couldn't find an exact answer to my question. So I am a nav select and myopic, and my right/left eye prescription is -6.50/-5.75 diopters. I was told by my eye doctor that this is roughly 20/1000 visual acuity, obviously way outside the 20/200 uncorrected limit for navigators. My question is, all other things normal, would I be likely to get a waiver with such a bad visual acuity? I've read in this thread that the limit is -3.00 for refractive error, but how would that compare with my diopter number? I guess I am just concerned about my chances of getting a waiver since I am so myopic. The eye doc said that other than that my eyes are very healthy. Finally, if I couldn't get a waiver, would I be able to get vision correction through the AF? What would happen with me and my nav slot?

[Guest goducks]

Reviving this thread because I searched through it and couldn't find an exact answer to my question. So I am a nav select and myopic, and my right/left eye prescription is -6.50/-5.75 diopters. I was told by my eye doctor that this is roughly 20/1000 visual acuity, obviously way outside the 20/200 uncorrected limit for navigators. My question is, all other things normal, would I be likely to get a waiver with such a bad visual acuity? I've read in this thread that the limit is -3.00 for refractive error, but how would that compare with my diopter number? I guess I am just concerned about my chances of getting a waiver since I am so myopic. The eye doc said that other than that my eyes are very healthy. Finally, if I couldn't get a waiver, would I be able to get vision correction through the AF? What would happen with me and my nav slot?

SCtrojan,

I do not know the answer to your question about waiverability for your refractive error and acuity. Perhaps someone else can shed light on it. However, the -3.00 abd 20/200 limits that have been discussed pertain to pilot applicants. I would assume it is more lenient for nav applicants, but I don't know the specifics.

You have a couple of options as far as refractive surgery goes. If you pursue it now, it would be on your own dime and there is a one year wait period after surgery before you can be considered for waiver. Your nav slot will not be held if that year wait period extends past your board date. You would have to reapply for a slot again.

If you are waivered for a nav position (or any other aircrew position for that matter), you would be eligible for treatment under the USAF Aviation Refractive Surgery program (on their dime), but you aren't eligible for treatment while in training and it's sometime difficult to get the time off to accomplish this. If you are not waivered, but commision as a non-flyer, you could be treated under the USAF Warfighter Refractive Surgery Program and then re-apply for a nav (or other aircrew position) slot a year after that. The two programs are essentially the same, just slightly different administrative procedures.

Hopefully I've given you a least a partial answer.

GD

[Guest SCtrojan]

So talking with the people over on airforceots.com, it appears that I am screwed. The maximum waiverable refractive error for Navs is -4.50. My prescription is -6.50 diopters in my right eye and -5.75 diopters in my left eye, so it appears I can't even be considered for a waiver. In fact, my prescription says :

OD: Sphere: -6.50, Cylinder: -0.75, Axis: 100

OS: Sphere: -5.75, Cylinder: -0.50, Axis: 110

So I guess I'm really -7.25/-6.25? My question is, will this be waiverable for ABM? If so, is it possible to be moved from Nav to ABM, or do I have to reapply? Sorry if my question has been answered before, but I really want to be a rated officer, and if I need to get the ball rolling before my optometry exam (March 30th), I want to know. One more thing, do I need to ask for a FCIII approval, or will the docs automatically approve me for it?

[Guest goducks]

So talking with the people over on airforceots.com, it appears that I am screwed. The maximum waiverable refractive error for Navs is -4.50. My prescription is -6.50 diopters in my right eye and -5.75 diopters in my left eye, so it appears I can't even be considered for a waiver. In fact, my prescription says :

OD: Sphere: -6.50, Cylinder: -0.75, Axis: 100

OS: Sphere: -5.75, Cylinder: -0.50, Axis: 110

So I guess I'm really -7.25/-6.25? My question is, will this be waiverable for ABM? If so, is it possible to be moved from Nav to ABM, or do I have to reapply? Sorry if my question has been answered before, but I really want to be a rated officer, and if I need to get the ball rolling before my optometry exam (March 30th), I want to know. One more thing, do I need to ask for a FCIII approval, or will the docs automatically approve me for it?

SCTrojan,

You are correct, your prescription would be interpreted as -7.25 and -6.25. I don't have an answer about switching to ABM or waiverable limits for ABM, but in my experience, a flight physical is usually stamped with all applicable classes. In other words, if a person is FCI qualified the physical will be stamped "Qualified for FCI, IA, III and commissioning". So I would assume you don't need to explicitly ask.

GD

[Guest Stevemax]

I see this thread is exactly what I am trying to figure out myself.

I had Bimedial rectus recession surgery when I was 1 year old for Esotropia in both eyes. I know I can't pass the OVT tests for depth perception at all. I've tried several times and still am unable to pass that machine.

As well, I've tried looking at the book and have trouble with some of the basics when it comes to picking the rigth circles. I've had a few eye exams in the past and they have shown that I have alternating suppression, but both eyes are 20/17...which I know are a rarity for people in my condition.

My question is would anyone think a waiver is possible for a flying class III? I'm not looking to fly airplanes as I'm sure the AF won't waive me for that, but from what I understand I need a waiver for a class III (flight test engineer)?

I am just trying to read through the medical regs and be a bit more knowledgable before I press on a career path towards TPS without the ability to fly.....

Thanks!

[Guest goducks]

I see this thread is exactly what I am trying to figure out myself.

I had Bimedial rectus recession surgery when I was 1 year old for Esotropia in both eyes. I know I can't pass the OVT tests for depth perception at all. I've tried several times and still am unable to pass that machine.

As well, I've tried looking at the book and have trouble with some of the basics when it comes to picking the rigth circles. I've had a few eye exams in the past and they have shown that I have alternating suppression, but both eyes are 20/17...which I know are a rarity for people in my condition.

My question is would anyone think a waiver is possible for a flying class III? I'm not looking to fly airplanes as I'm sure the AF won't waive me for that, but from what I understand I need a waiver for a class III (flight test engineer)?

I am just trying to read through the medical regs and be a bit more knowledgable before I press on a career path towards TPS without the ability to fly.....

Thanks!

Stevemax,

You would definitely need a waiver. From the AFI:

A4.12.2.1. Initial Flying Class III, AFSC Specific requirement. 1A0, 1A1 (flight engineer), 1A2..... all require normal depth perception.

This does not mean that you have to pass the OVT, but you have to have some level of depth perception using the circle tests to be eligible for waiver. Based on my experience, if you have trouble with the depth perception books (using the "3D" glasses), then you will likely run into problems meeting the AF requirements for waiver which involve a similar type of circle test, except that it is a distance task.

I have seen a few folks meet these requirements (including some pilot applicants) after strabismus surgery, but a history of surgery along with the suppression definitely sets you up for having difficulty with the depth perception tests.

GD

[Guest Helix]

Hey guys Ive searched around but cant seem to find reliable numbers to what the waiverable limits are for a flying applicant for PRK.

my

SPH-3.75

CYL-1.25

Total= -5.00

While I know this is beyond the waiverable limit for normal eyes is this beyond pre-op requirements for PRK or lasik? I understand that I 100 percent need a waiver but with these numbers is it possible even after prk?

[Guest goducks]

Hey guys Ive searched around but cant seem to find reliable numbers to what the waiverable limits are for a flying applicant for PRK.

my

SPH-3.75

CYL-1.25

Total= -5.00

While I know this is beyond the waiverable limit for normal eyes is this beyond pre-op requirements for PRK or lasik? I understand that I 100 percent need a waiver but with these numbers is it possible even after prk?

I know this info has been posted in a PRK thread somewhere, but I'm not finding it. Anyhow, pre-op limits for PRK are currently -8.00 D so you're well within the box.

GD

[Guest gatorpilot20]

Hey all...I have to take the Humphries visual fields exam. I'm familiar with the test in general. Does anyone have any advise or recommendations? Does anyone know how often the light blinks etc? Any tricks?

I could use any additional information from people with experience.

Thank you

[Guest goducks]

Hey all...I have to take the Humphries visual fields exam. I'm familiar with the test in general. Does anyone have any advise or recommendations? Does anyone know how often the light blinks etc? Any tricks?

I could use any additional information from people with experience.

Thank you

There really aren't any tricks or any ways to fool the test for that matter. If you try to guess when the light is being presented, it will result in a high number of false positives (you responded when you shouldn't have) or false negatives (you didn't respond when you were presented a stimulus that you should have seen). Thirdly, if your eyes tend to wander during the test, you will have a high number of fixation losses (and probably get scolded from the tech as they can see your eye through a little camera inside the machine). When any of these three scenarios occur to a large extend, the test is considered unreliable and... you get to do it again. I've sat through them a few times- they're not all that fun. The longest 10-30 minutes of your life depending on the software package used.

The only advice I can give is to respond when you think you see a light and don't worry about it if you're not sure. While you're taking the test, you feel like you're failing miserably because the machine is constantly testing you at your threshold level. That's normal.

Also, while taking the test, your eyes will tend to get dry if you don't remember to blink. It's a good idea to try and blink each time you respond as there will be a few seconds before the light is presented again. Also, if you need to pause the test, you can hold the button down and it will stay paused until you release the button.

Generally the rule of thumb is that findings from an initial automated visual field are taken with a grain of salt until the are shown to be repeatable. I know some docs that basically throw away the first field as there is a bit of a learning curve to the process.

GD

[Guest gatorpilot20]

Thank you for the great response! I really appreciate your time! Now you stated that the light will blink every few seconds, correct? Well did you happen to see a pattern? Or is it generated randomly every few seconds? Thanks again for your detailed explanation!

[Guest goducks]

Thank you for the great response! I really appreciate your time! Now you stated that the light will blink every few seconds, correct? Well did you happen to see a pattern? Or is it generated randomly every few seconds? Thanks again for your detailed explanation!

There is no pattern, although the test generally starts with more of the para-central and central vision then moves on to more peripheral vision. The light is presented every few seconds (an approximation), but since it is testing at threshold and sometimes below threshold, you may only see a light every 10 or 15 seconds.

I'm sure you already know this, but it's basically a hearing test for the eyes. So, there may be some stimuli that are very easy to see and others that are extremely dim. Just the way the test works.

GD

[Guest Stevemax]

Thanks for the response GD. Maybe not the best news, but at least I have a pretty good idea that TPS is probably not an option for me....

Oh well. Thanks again!