Vision waiver info

[Guest Poorman180]

Quick question on waviers. I have my UPT spot and Brooks dates. Right now I am right at 20/70 and -1.5 in both eyes. Wondering if I should bring a wavier with me? I know I am not over the limits but if the doc has a different opinion at Brooks that could change. I am planning on getting another cilvilian doc check out to make sure.

Thanks

Alert F16 crew dawg going pilot

[Guest goducks]

Quick question on waviers. I have my UPT spot and Brooks dates. Right now I am right at 20/70 and -1.5 in both eyes. Wondering if I should bring a wavier with me? I know I am not over the limits but if the doc has a different opinion at Brooks that could change. I am planning on getting another cilvilian doc check out to make sure.

Thanks

Alert F16 crew dawg going pilot

You don't/can't initiate the waiver process. The docs at Brooks will handle it if needed. You're well within waiver range, no need to worry or have additional testing done.

GD

[Chump]

You don't/can't initiate the waiver process. The docs at Brooks will handle it if needed. You're well within waiver range, no need to worry or have additional testing done.

GD

Hey goducks, just wondering how you know all this info, personal experience or have you been a part of the waiver process?

[Guest Poorman180]

You don't/can't initiate the waiver process. The docs at Brooks will handle it if needed. You're well within waiver range, no need to worry or have additional testing done.

GD

Thanks GD!

[Guest goducks]

Hey goducks, just wondering how you know all this info, personal experience or have you been a part of the waiver process?

I've worked in the aviation medicine field. Not part of the waiver process, just doing exams.

Edited October 11, 2009 by goducks

[Guest bugmn20]

I have a vision question for anyone who may be able to give me some insight on the possibility of a waiver. Here is a bit of background info on my situation. Basically I had a pilot slot in 06, but was DQ'd due to a convergence insuffiency (nothing was documented on the DQ). I have been seeing a specialist and doing vision therapy to get this issue under control, and according to the docs, it is a non-issue at this time. Im a guard officer so I have had the opportunity to stay in touch with our flight medicine staff, and last month I passed the tests that I initially failed in 2006 (red lens test, depth perception...). The other issue that still remains is my far sightedness. My left eye is +3.5 and my right eye is +2.5. I know that this is beyond the +2 limit for pilots and +3 limit for navigators, but was curious if there was any chance at a waiver for this condition. I really want to be a pilot, but would take a nav slot if my condition is unwaiverable for pilot. I have my package all ready to go, and am well liked in the flying sq, so im not necessarliy as concerned about getting the slot as i am passing the Class 1 or Class 1a. Any professional opinions would be apperciated. Thank you in advance!

jc

[Guest goducks]

I have a vision question for anyone who may be able to give me some insight on the possibility of a waiver. Here is a bit of background info on my situation. Basically I had a pilot slot in 06, but was DQ'd due to a convergence insuffiency (nothing was documented on the DQ). I have been seeing a specialist and doing vision therapy to get this issue under control, and according to the docs, it is a non-issue at this time. Im a guard officer so I have had the opportunity to stay in touch with our flight medicine staff, and last month I passed the tests that I initially failed in 2006 (red lens test, depth perception...). The other issue that still remains is my far sightedness. My left eye is +3.5 and my right eye is +2.5. I know that this is beyond the +2 limit for pilots and +3 limit for navigators, but was curious if there was any chance at a waiver for this condition. I really want to be a pilot, but would take a nav slot if my condition is unwaiverable for pilot. I have my package all ready to go, and am well liked in the flying sq, so im not necessarliy as concerned about getting the slot as i am passing the Class 1 or Class 1a. Any professional opinions would be apperciated. Thank you in advance!

jc

jc,

Pilot applicants are waiverable up to +4.00 D, however, above +3.00 you must be able to pass the OVT depth perception test. If you are between +2.00 and +3.00, then you can be waivered even if you fail the OVT, as long as you can pass the back up depth perception test. The same cut-off requirements apply to FCIA, except the numbers are +4.00 and +5.50.

All of the cut-offs are based on cycloplegic refraction after two drops of 1.0% Cyclopentolate, with the least amount of lens power needed to get you to 20/20, etc.

I'm a little surprised you would fail on FCI based on convergence insufficiency alone. I can't recall ever seeing that happen. Seems like there must have been other compounding factors?

Anyhow, sounds like you've got a shot at it.

GD

[Guest Chappellefan]

Hey gang,

I just got done with Brooks passing everything but the cycloplegic refraction. I was deemed too farsighted when my right eye was dilated so I was given a DQ with no waiver recommended. This is the first time that my farsightedness was an issue (PPQ from DoDMERB, MEPS) and I want to see what I can do to work around this. Has anyone had anything similar or have any ideas? Thanks!

[Silentcom]

I will be getting my LASIK surgery this winter and I wanted to be able to clear up a few questions I have about the waiver so I can make sure that I have everything done correctly.

1. So I only need to fill out the CRS Waiver Checklist and review with my NCO that I meet the pre-op standards before I get the surgery? I don't need to get another form HQ that gives me the ok to go ahead and get the surgery? I just want to make sure that there isn't anything else I need to fill out. It just seems a little less complicated than I thought it would be.

2. The medical NCO at my det said that I needed to include all forms and charts that the doctor fills out at every checkup. What exactly am I looking for or am I just asking for a copy of everything the eye doctor writes down about me at the appointment? Also, the medical NCO said that I need to get him all of my new information after every check-up instead of submitting it all at the end when I was done with the checklist.

3. Is it true that I can get the checkups needed to fill out the CRS waiver form at a different place from where I got the surgery? I live 9 hours away from my school and there isn't any time of the year that I can get the surgery at one place and be able to get all of the checkups done at that same place.

On page 32 of the attached document I found the CRS waiver checklist and I wanted to make sure that this is the correct form that I have to fill out. Also, do I need to worry about the memorandum the page after?

Thanks for your time.

ROTC Cadet Medical Processing.pdf

[Guest goducks]

I will be getting my LASIK surgery this winter and I wanted to be able to clear up a few questions I have about the waiver so I can make sure that I have everything done correctly.

1. So I only need to fill out the CRS Waiver Checklist and review with my NCO that I meet the pre-op standards before I get the surgery? I don't need to get another form HQ that gives me the ok to go ahead and get the surgery? I just want to make sure that there isn't anything else I need to fill out. It just seems a little less complicated than I thought it would be.

2. The medical NCO at my det said that I needed to include all forms and charts that the doctor fills out at every checkup. What exactly am I looking for or am I just asking for a copy of everything the eye doctor writes down about me at the appointment? Also, the medical NCO said that I need to get him all of my new information after every check-up instead of submitting it all at the end when I was done with the checklist.

3. Is it true that I can get the checkups needed to fill out the CRS waiver form at a different place from where I got the surgery? I live 9 hours away from my school and there isn't any time of the year that I can get the surgery at one place and be able to get all of the checkups done at that same place.

On page 32 of the attached document I found the CRS waiver checklist and I wanted to make sure that this is the correct form that I have to fill out. Also, do I need to worry about the memorandum the page after?

Thanks for your time.

Silentcom,

I don't have all your answers, but I may have one or two.

1. If you are applying for an aircrew position and you are currently civilian, ROTC, etc. there is no requirement for you to get approval prior to refractive surgery. That applies to folks already on AD/ANG/AFRC, etc.

2. The main thing that is needed for your waiver are: did you meet pre-op standards, did you have an uncomplicated recovery, are your eyes otherwise normal. To make life easier for you, I would just ask them to give you a copy of whatever they have and keep that for when you go to Brooks. I don't know why the NCO needs/wants it, but that's not my business.

3. You can get your check-ups at a different location that the surgery. No problem.

I don't have a clue about the most recent checklist. I would talk to the folks at Brooks if you have any questions.

GD

[Silentcom]

One other question, is Intralase and wavefront guided LASIK acceptable within the waiver? In other words is all laser lasik acceptable? I think I read some stuff online awhile ago that it was, but I wasn't able to find it again.

[Guest goducks]

One other question, is Intralase and wavefront guided LASIK acceptable within the waiver? In other words is all laser lasik acceptable? I think I read some stuff online awhile ago that it was, but I wasn't able to find it again.

Yes, all forms of LASIK are waiverable.

[Silentcom]

Yes, all forms of LASIK are waiverable.

Ok, thanks a lot for your help.

[Guest buckeye7]

Another quick eye waiver question:

Passed FC1A last summer, was switched to the UPT track recently and am scheduled for Brooks in april. I am borderline -3/-3.25 equally in both eyes. All other vision tests are no problem. Can someone help me out with any advice or knowledge if my vision is out/within the waiver limits?

[WheelsOff]

Moved to this thread (figured this one is a more appropriate place to ask)

Goducks,

I had my initial FC1 done this time last year and was stamped "approved pending successful completion of MFS" last summer. My eyes were in the -1.50 range (within limits) and did not require an excessive refraction waiver at the time. However, it will be about 1.5 years by the time I make it to MFS/Brooks after OTS (since having done my FC1) and am wondering if my eyes were to change slightly over that time period (by say another -0.25 or -0.50 diopters) - would I then need an excessive refraction waiver to be able to pass MFS/Brooks?

I haven't seen an eye doc since my FC1 so I don't know where my eyesight stands currently (don't really think they've gotten any worse)...but, I'm just curious if you know what would happen in a situation like this or if you have ever seen a scenario like this before? Just curious.

Thanks.

[Guest goducks]

Another quick eye waiver question:

Passed FC1A last summer, was switched to the UPT track recently and am scheduled for Brooks in april. I am borderline -3/-3.25 equally in both eyes. All other vision tests are no problem. Can someone help me out with any advice or knowledge if my vision is out/within the waiver limits?

For FCIA those numbers should be well within the waiverable range. I think it is posted in one of the pinned threads if you want the specifics.

GD

Moved to this thread (figured this one is a more appropriate place to ask)

Goducks,

I had my initial FC1 done this time last year and was stamped "approved pending successful completion of MFS" last summer. My eyes were in the -1.50 range (within limits) and did not require an excessive refraction waiver at the time. However, it will be about 1.5 years by the time I make it to MFS/Brooks after OTS (since having done my FC1) and am wondering if my eyes were to change slightly over that time period (by say another -0.25 or -0.50 diopters) - would I then need an excessive refraction waiver to be able to pass MFS/Brooks?

I haven't seen an eye doc since my FC1 so I don't know where my eyesight stands currently (don't really think they've gotten any worse)...but, I'm just curious if you know what would happen in a situation like this or if you have ever seen a scenario like this before? Just curious.

Thanks.

dml,

If your eyes are measured above -1.50 you would need an excessive refractive error waiver. As long as they aren't worse than -3.00, a waiver is routine. So, unless things change drastically, you'll be fine.

GD

Edited February 20, 2010 by goducks

[WheelsOff]

dml,

If your eyes are measured above -1.50 you would need an excessive refractive error waiver. As long as they aren't worse than -3.00, a waiver is routine. So, unless things change drastically, you'll be fine.

GD

That's pretty much what I figured but just wanted to be sure. I doubt they've gotten much worse (if it all, hopefully) but I'll know for sure next week at my eye exam. Thanks GD.

[Guest Mainak]

I just had my FC1A done and I passed everything except for 2 hitches: 1) I have a congenital cataract in my left eye, and 2)I have peripheral retinal degeneration in my left eye. For #1, the doctor said that it is not a big deal as long as its not a) large enough to hinder vision (I have 20/15 vision so it does not) and b) progressive (its congenital so if it hasnt grown in 23 years it probably wont grow abnormally in the next 8+2 years). I do however have to go see an optometrist every year to make sure that it is in fact not growing. #2, is a little more serious, but still not that bad. He said that I need to go see an opthamologist asap to make sure its not Lattis (sp?) degeneration, but even if it is its not bad cause according to him tons of people flying in the AF have it. But I wanted to get a second opinion from you guys. How bad are those 2 things? Please let me know so that I can start eating and sleeping again.

[Guest goducks]

I just had my FC1A done and I passed everything except for 2 hitches: 1) I have a congenital cataract in my left eye, and 2)I have peripheral retinal degeneration in my left eye. For #1, the doctor said that it is not a big deal as long as its not a) large enough to hinder vision (I have 20/15 vision so it does not) and b) progressive (its congenital so if it hasnt grown in 23 years it probably wont grow abnormally in the next 8+2 years). I do however have to go see an optometrist every year to make sure that it is in fact not growing. #2, is a little more serious, but still not that bad. He said that I need to go see an opthamologist asap to make sure its not Lattis (sp?) degeneration, but even if it is its not bad cause according to him tons of people flying in the AF have it. But I wanted to get a second opinion from you guys. How bad are those 2 things? Please let me know so that I can start eating and sleeping again.

The congenital cataract sounds like a non-player. The lattice degeneration could be an issue depending on the assessed risk for future complication. Lots of people have lattice. The only time it is a hard DQ is when there is a high risk of progression to a retinal tear or detachment. This is generally the exception, not the norm.

[Guest monkey]

Hi,

What about larger than normal optic nerve cups? I have had multiple tests (including visual field) with multiple optometrists over the past few years to come confirm that it is just part of my make-up and not related to glaucoma. Might this be a problem at all at Brooks?

[Guest goducks]

Hi,

What about larger than normal optic nerve cups? I have had multiple tests (including visual field) with multiple optometrists over the past few years to come confirm that it is just part of my make-up and not related to glaucoma. Might this be a problem at all at Brooks?

Only a problem if associated with visual field defects, elevated IOP or some other evidence of actual glaucoma. Enlarged cupping in an otherwise normal eye is not a problem. You will get some extra attention, so don't be surprised.

[Guest Cpt Ali]

Hi, im Ali from Iraq and living in Amman Jordan, im a commercial pilot, i hold a Jordanian commercial pilot license and 1st class medical certificate, im going to migrate to United States Fl Miami in the end of this year and im going to convert my Jordanian Pilot license to FAA pilot license, and after that i want to join the USAF and i would like to be a pilot on cargo airplanes like C-17 globemaster or C-130 hercules (*i dont want to be a fighter pilot*), but im worried about the AF medical exam, my left eye is a lazy eye, i see 6/6 in both eyes (distant + near vision), but i see 9/6 in my left eye separately (distant vision only), and i see 6/6 in my right eye separately (distant + near vision), so my problem is with the distant vision in my left eye only, i dont know what 9/6 equals to...20/50? 20/70? anyway my question is can i pass the AF medical exam with that problem in my left eye? if not then can i get a wavier?

btw i had a lasik op 5 years ago and it was useless, also contact lenses are not useful for me, i hope if someone can help me and give me the answer for my question.

Thank you

Ali A. Alsaraf

[Guest goducks]

Hi, im Ali from Iraq and living in Amman Jordan, im a commercial pilot, i hold a Jordanian commercial pilot license and 1st class medical certificate, im going to migrate to United States Fl Miami in the end of this year and im going to convert my Jordanian Pilot license to FAA pilot license, and after that i want to join the USAF and i would like to be a pilot on cargo airplanes like C-17 globemaster or C-130 hercules (*i dont want to be a fighter pilot*), but im worried about the AF medical exam, my left eye is a lazy eye, i see 6/6 in both eyes (distant + near vision), but i see 9/6 in my left eye separately (distant vision only), and i see 6/6 in my right eye separately (distant + near vision), so my problem is with the distant vision in my left eye only, i dont know what 9/6 equals to...20/50? 20/70? anyway my question is can i pass the AF medical exam with that problem in my left eye? if not then can i get a wavier?

btw i had a lasik op 5 years ago and it was useless, also contact lenses are not useful for me, i hope if someone can help me and give me the answer for my question.

Thank you

Ali A. Alsaraf

Ali,

You are referencing the metric form of Snellen acuity (6 meters is roughly equivalent to 20 feet,hence the use of 6). I think you mean you have 6/9 vision, not 9/6. 6/9 would be equivalent to 20/30, whereas 9/6 would be 20/13. As far as the Air Force goes, it's pretty much cut and dried that you need 20/20 vision or better in EACH eye, whether it be with glasses, contacts, LASIK, etc. This is true regardless of airframe. Honestly, I would not expect a waiver under this situation. I wish I had better news.

GD

[Guest monkey]

Only a problem if associated with visual field defects, elevated IOP or some other evidence of actual glaucoma. Enlarged cupping in an otherwise normal eye is not a problem. You will get some extra attention, so don't be surprised.

Hello,

I have always had enlarged cupping, and normal IOP. The last time I had my IOP measured via applanation tonometry during an annual eye exam, they were 18/16 mmHg.

Which is why, I was caught by surprise recently during my commissioning physical when my IOP measured at 22 mmHg for both eyes. It was not a diurnal reading, but the optometrist did measure it several times during the sitting with same results. Also, he held my eyes open with cotton swabs or tongue depressors (I forget) which he admitted might affect the reading because of the applied pressure. In the end, due to the enlarged cupping coupled with the borderline high IOP, I was given a consultation to complete at a civilian ophthalmologist. (HVF 30-2, stereophotos, applanation tonometry, ODX/HRTZ (sp?))

IOP as measured by applanation tonometry was 19/17 and the ophthalmologist (at a well-regarded eye surgery center) told me that I did well on all the tests, except the enlarged cupping is still there and I don't expect that to change (as long as it doesn't get bigger in size it's OK). I submitted this information, and was still disqualified by SG. Of course since I was disqualified at the prescreen level, I am not allowed to proceed to Brooks.

Now I have read AF Waiver Guide, and on p. 353-355, there is a list of items you need to submit to apply for OHT waiver. Then towards the end of that section it says OHT is disqualifying and not waiverable. So my question is why is there a list of items to submit for the waiver if it is not waiverable? Is the waiver only available for AF pilots already in the service? Is there any way I can get a waiver for this "condition" especially considering how borderline the reading was, and the fact that I had measured normally in the ophthalmic exam they ordered afterwards? (And if they are not going to accept the result of a civilian exam, why did they tell me to get it done?)

After posting this I found a similar thread of 3 pages devoted to OHT/glaucoma... but am still unsure if OHT is indeed unwaiverable.

FYI if it matters at all the route I am taking is AFRES, I have been hired by a unit for a pilot slot. Also, I do not possess any of the risk factors (family history, African American, age, etc.) for glaucoma.

Edited May 27, 2010 by monkey

[GearMonkey]

Which is why, I was caught by surprise recently during my commissioning physical when my IOP measured at 22 mmHg for both eyes.

Were the high IOPs recorded on the "puff" tester or did they poke you in the eye with the blue circle thingy?

AETC/SG is kind of touchy about high IOPs especially with disc cupping and/or any other unusual factors. It is easier for them to DQ people rather than really look into the situation since they have an infinite pool of candidates to choose from. I speak from the AD side so it may be a bit different with AFRES. I seem to recall a slightly different waiver approval chain for non-AD so you might be able to cut AETC/SG out of the equation.

I had a similar situation during my F1C but luckily they never confirmed the puff readings with applanation. Because of this, and a variety of other errors, I was able to get an ETP. For some reason AETC/SG doesn't seem to listen to civilian eye docs. I've heard far too many stories of people getting sent off base, finding out things are fine, and getting DQed anyway based on the original AF exam. I don't know why they even suggest further consult since they don't consider the results at all.

The OHT waiver criteria provided is for current aviators. Once you get your foot in the door and they spend a few million bucks training you they are suddenly far more willing to keep you around despite any medical issues.