Latest JQP post. AF digging deeper for bodies for deployment.

[HeyEng]

Big Blue needs you to present a PowerPoint to a deployed location, even if you are needed at your current unit: https://www.jqpublicblog.com/leaked-memo-shows-depth-of-air-force-manpower-crisis/

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Azimuth]

Guy in my last squadron deployed for six months to build "smart binders" for the CENTCOM/CC. They need an 11M to do that.

[ThreeHoler]

Guy in my last squadron deployed for six months to build "smart binders" for the CENTCOM/CC. They need an 11M to do that.

Seems legit.

[Seriously]

It's a disconnect between how many hours AFPC thinks you work and how many you actually work.

[ViperStud]

The problem is that the COCOMs are smart. They know an 11X is they type who gets shit done. In general, an 11X gives a shit about hacking the mish more so than punching a clock, hanging out at the bra or gathering enough BS bronze stars to look like a Panamanian dictator. The same cannot be said about a lot of other support types.

Flame away at me if you want, but that's why they want to keep operators in jobs they perceive as important - even if said job has little to do with actual operations.

[17D_guy]

Are we going to do a separate thread for each of his (great) posts? Or can we do a consolidated thread?

[JarheadBoom]

Are we going to do a separate thread for each of his (great) posts? Or can we do a consolidated thread?

Maybe one of the mods can do some cleanup on aisle 6 and consol... then start swinging the "UTFSF" hammer again.

[Seriously]

Maybe one of the mods can do some cleanup on aisle 6 and consol... then start swinging the "UTFSF" hammer again.

Mega threads and overly aggressive moderation are the reason Baseops.net has been going down over the last 6-7 years.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Seriously

[zrooster99]

In general, an 11X gives a shit about hacking the mish...The same cannot be said about a lot of other support types.

Flame away at me if you want, but that's why they want to keep operators in jobs they perceive as important - even if said job has little to do with actual operations.

False. Flame complete.

[ViperStud]

False. Flame complete.

There is a reason why COCOMs don't care who fills TCN billets but they do care who is working close to them. I know, I filled one of those billets for 5 months. I had the paperwork all done to remove the AFSC requirement and my boss changed his mind last minute. His argument for keeping it 11/12X - credibility when dealing with host nation. Any dude who has ever looked at a flight plan could have done my job on the spot - and any services dude could have done it with 4 hours training. The boss (a loggie BTW) agreed but didn't want to drop the rated requirement.

As soon as all these AFSC-specific BS deployment billets (which absolutely do not require the specific skills of that AFSC) drop the AFSC requirement, your viewpoint will have some merit. Until then, the prosecution rests.

[17D_guy]

His argument for keeping it 11/12X - credibility when dealing with host nation. Any dude who has ever looked at a flight plan could have done my job on the spot - and any services dude could have done it with 4 hours training. The boss (a loggie BTW) agreed but didn't want to drop the rated requirement.

So it wasn't about hacking the mission as a rated operator vs a support Amn.

It was about appearances.

[JarheadBoom]

Mega threads and overly aggressive moderation are the reason Baseops.net has been going down over the last 6-7 years.

That may be so, but it's not my sandbox, therefore not my rules.

I suppose if nothing happens here (no thread consol), we can assume there's been a change of heart WRT keeping all topic-related posts in one thread...

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Just because it's another JQP post doesn't mean it's not a separate topic that merits its own thread if guys want to discuss it. As for the topic at hand, it's just another symptom of the yes man culture. Nobody is willing to challenge bad decisions by leaders. Are there bad leaders in the AF? Of course! But for every genuinely bad leader, there are probably ten good ones made to look bad by poor followers. It's unreasonable to expect WG/CCs and above to be in tune with the daily reality of their organization, so it's imperative for followers to inform the boss of the potential impact of proposals instead of blindly obeying every whim and wish.

[M2]

That may be so, but it's not my sandbox, therefore not my rules.

I suppose if nothing happens here (no thread consol), we can assume there's been a change of heart WRT keeping all topic-related posts in one thread...

Don't assume anything. Since no one has officially complained (other than 17D_guy's comment in this thread), we mods/admins aren't going to do anything unless we see it becoming a problem.

But in all fairness, I hope we don't see a new thread every time JQP posts another article. If that becomes the case, then maybe we'll see about setting up a sub-forum to discuss his observations.

In the meantime, as it hasn't hit the threshold, no harm no foul...

[disgruntledemployee]

The true daily work of non-flying jobs at many deployed spots does not justify the number of people. Even with CCs considerate of extra bodies and looking to cut, they second guess and change their mind. It was always the "in case the shit hits the fan" excuse. The mentality will not go away. "I'm in charge of a lot of people" and the bigger the better for many CCs. And so much of the work is pure crap, mostly crap, and half crap. We generate more crap than sorties. The MX hours per flying hour are X. The crap that goes along with it is X to the 50+. So much time, paper, electricity, and waste of human time goes into generating useless, no decision making info, crap.

I'm out of crap

[SuperWSO]

The problem is that the COCOMs are smart. They know an 11X is they type who gets shit done. In general, an 11X gives a shit about hacking the mish more so than punching a clock, hanging out at the bra or gathering enough BS bronze stars to look like a Panamanian dictator. The same cannot be said about a lot of other support types.

.

As a fellow aviator, I'm appalled. It must be tough to be you, since you are the only one working.

Edit for phone-post shenanigans

Edited June 18, 2015 by SuperWSO

[DFRESH]

Don't assume anything. Since no one has officially complained (other than 17D_guy's comment in this thread), we mods/admins aren't going to do anything unless we see it becoming a problem.

But in all fairness, I hope we don't see a new thread every time JQP posts another article. If that becomes the case, then maybe we'll see about setting up a sub-forum to discuss his observations.

In the meantime, as it hasn't hit the threshold, no harm no foul...

I've started a conversation with BMAQ (owners of JQP blog), in hopes of leading to flyingsquadron.com having a sub-forum that auto builds a thread with each pre-existing and new JQP blog. This would be a great way for each post to have it's own discussions within BO.net. I literally just submitted an RFI today, so who knows what the lead turn will be.

[zrooster99]

There is a reason why COCOMs don't care who fills TCN billets but they do care who is working close to them. I know, I filled one of those billets for 5 months. I had the paperwork all done to remove the AFSC requirement and my boss changed his mind last minute. His argument for keeping it 11/12X - credibility when dealing with host nation. Any dude who has ever looked at a flight plan could have done my job on the spot - and any services dude could have done it with 4 hours training. The boss (a loggie BTW) agreed but didn't want to drop the rated requirement.

As soon as all these AFSC-specific BS deployment billets (which absolutely do not require the specific skills of that AFSC) drop the AFSC requirement, your viewpoint will have some merit. Until then, the prosecution rests.

My viewpoint has merit because I have surperior experience. Furthermore, having been both a rated and non-rated officer, I have superior perspective. I don't dispute that COCOMs insist on having a rated officer in billits that don't require a rated officer. I take umbrage with your assertion that a rated officer is an inherently superior resource. That is an ignorant and short sighted opinion to hold.

[sputnik]

My viewpoint has merit because I have surperior experience. Furthermore, having been both a rated and non-rated officer, I have superior perspective. I don't dispute that COCOMs insist on having a rated officer in billits that don't require a rated officer. I take umbrage with your assertion that a rated officer is an inherently superior resource. That is an ignorant and short sighted opinion to hold.

I can't tell if you're serious. Umbrage? Seriously?

[zrooster99]

I can't tell if you're serious. Umbrage? Seriously?

Yeah, fucking seriously. What's your point?

Edit: For clarity

Edited June 19, 2015 by zrooster99

[ViperStud]

So it wasn't about hacking the mission as a rated operator vs a support Amn.

It was about appearances.

It was partially about appearances. The foreign military I dealt with were all non-rated. The only pilots I met were on social occasions. My boss was honestly just afraid to make the change. During the discussion, he no kidding said "you guys have a reputation for getting shit done" and he was reticent to get rid of the ridiculous rated requirement. That's from a non-rated dude. If a loggie feels that way, he is not the only one. My position was a holdover from an old CAOC where there were a ton of rated dudes there before. There was no reason to hold on to it, but I digress.

My viewpoint has merit because I have surperior experience. Furthermore, having been both a rated and non-rated officer, I have superior perspective. I don't dispute that COCOMs insist on having a rated officer in billits that don't require a rated officer. I take umbrage with your assertion that a rated officer is an inherently superior resource. That is an ignorant and short sighted opinion to hold.

You're a moron. Someone who insecurely throws out obscure words to impress the bros and cover for his inadequacies in other aspects of life ought to be smart enough to read my first sentence. I made a general statement (used the word "generally") and never argued that there was an inherent superiority among all of us. We have tons of douchebags that produce very little in the Viper community. Some get weeded out, but some stick around. In general though, we are more results oriented than a lot of support career fields. Others like us: SOF, MX, CE (specifically EOD and firefighters), SF (I flame them routinely, but never for work ethic). That's not a complete list. I will eat my words when a flying squadron that I'm in:

- Turns into a ghost town at 430...just because it's 430

- No kidding locks the doors when we have some down time (maybe weather CNX a go and end up doing training)

- Shuts down during the duty day to farewell someone on something other than a pre-planned wing down day

- Shows up 2 hours late to do PT (ie, go play fvcking ultimate frisbee)

That shit is routine is some places. Yes, I am calling out their work ethic. It's no surprise we end up waiting on things like orders and pay when those practices are condoned.

It blows my mind that we all agree that treating everyone the same is BS, yet when someone actually points out the differences between us some nancies get all butthurt. Cultures and work ethic vary greatly around the Air Force. Some of it might be inherent and be the reason why certain types end up in certain places; some of it is likely learned. It takes almost 3 years to make a wingman and not all that learning is in the jet. That's a little different than a 3 month tech school followed by office hours (except of course when closed for training or a farewell).

[zrooster99]

It was partially about appearances. The foreign military I dealt with were all non-rated. The only pilots I met were on social occasions. My boss was honestly just afraid to make the change. During the discussion, he no kidding said "you guys have a reputation for getting shit done" and he was reticent to get rid of the ridiculous rated requirement. That's from a non-rated dude. If a loggie feels that way, he is not the only one. My position was a holdover from an old CAOC where there were a ton of rated dudes there before. There was no reason to hold on to it, but I digress.

You're a moron. Someone who insecurely throws out obscure words to impress the bros and cover for his inadequacies in other aspects of life ought to be smart enough to read my first sentence. I made a general statement (used the word "generally") and never argued that there was an inherent superiority among all of us. We have tons of douchebags that produce very little in the Viper community. Some get weeded out, but some stick around. In general though, we are more results oriented than a lot of support career fields. Others like us: SOF, MX, CE (specifically EOD and firefighters), SF (I flame them routinely, but never for work ethic). That's not a complete list. I will eat my words when a flying squadron that I'm in:

- Turns into a ghost town at 430...just because it's 430

- No kidding locks the doors when we have some down time (maybe weather CNX a go and end up doing training)

- Shuts down during the duty day to farewell someone on something other than a pre-planned wing down day

- Shows up 2 hours late to do PT (ie, go play fvcking ultimate frisbee)

That shit is routine is some places. Yes, I am calling out their work ethic. It's no surprise we end up waiting on things like orders and pay when those practices are condoned.

It blows my mind that we all agree that treating everyone the same is BS, yet when someone actually points out the differences between us some nancies get all butthurt. Cultures and work ethic vary greatly around the Air Force. Some of it might be inherent and be the reason why certain types end up in certain places; some of it is likely learned. It takes almost 3 years to make a wingman and not all that learning is in the jet. That's a little different than a 3 month tech school followed by office hours (except of course when closed for training or a farewell).

It's not that obscure...I'm sorry you're intimidated by it.

Your post did nothing but further convince me that you don't know what you're talking about. Incidentally, I'm not defending the many douche nozzles in many of the support agencies that frustrated the shit out of me by closing for training 7 out of an 8 hr duty day, etc... It's one the reasons I'm very happy to be retirred. What I'm saying is that I've seen plenty of douche nozzles on the rated side, and some shit hot dudes in non-rated AFSCs. Your post, to me, comes off as naive and immature.

[17D_guy]

Don't assume anything. Since no one has officially complained (other than 17D_guy's comment in this thread),

Wasn't complaining. I just had seen it done before and was wondering if it was going to happen.

[17D_guy]

- Turns into a ghost town at 430...just because it's 430

- No kidding locks the doors when we have some down time (maybe weather CNX a go and end up doing training)

- Shuts down during the duty day to farewell someone on something other than a pre-planned wing down day

- Shows up 2 hours late to do PT (ie, go play fvcking ultimate frisbee)

That shit is routine is some places. Yes, I am calling out their work ethic. It's no surprise we end up waiting on things like orders and pay when those practices are condoned.

It's devolving into the standard support vs ops argument. Yawn...

I'll leave it at this. Just because the door gets locked at 1630, doesn't mean Airmen aren't still working.

I've got many flyer friends and family, and perhaps it's the different airframes, but I've seen Ops Sq's shutdown for farewells, naming's or other (awesome) heritage events. Sure, there's still a crew or 2 out flying, but I've still got someone manning the CFP and doing high-priority tickets/outages.

The Ops Sq's here play football for PT and show up after 0900.. except for the crews flying or mission planning. But again.. the Cyber Amn I've got working tickets/outages... don't go to PT.

On an interesting note we did close the CFP on Fridays for training. Because the AF decided to separate a ton of experienced NCO's and deploy the rest I've got a ton of Amn who completed tech school.. but really can't do anything. Do you guys have customers that walk in?

Classes are had, tasks are checked off, learning is accomplished and experienced is shared from the (no kidding) 1 hot-shot TSgt we've got. We can't do that with customers walking in.

It's show significant impacts to ticket numbers going DOWN, but it still sucks we're closed on Fridays.

Edited June 19, 2015 by 17D_guy

[BonedRiver]

Yeah, ######ing seriously. What's your point?

Edit: For clarity

lol...

Edit: For more lolz

Edited June 19, 2015 by BonedRiver