F-16 & Cessna mid-air over SC

[Danny Noonin]

You're right, it doesn't, I just used it to make the calculation without having any other known variables (i.e. FAF alt) assuming a 850 FPM VVI (rounded to 900).

ETA: I'm too dumb to do trig without a calculator if that's what you are implying. Using speed to figure nm/min to find time on final to use with FPM is much easier.

Holy shit Kenny, you're making this too difficult. Edited July 16, 2015 by Danny Noonin

[Tulsa]

Whatever dude, it's not difficult. Just used some numbers from everyday flying to give a realistic number.

Correct it is not difficult, but you make it so with your ineptitude. You are wrong and need to stop giving any input on this topic. Sit back and let the grown ups talk.

[ViperStud]

That escalated quickly; do you guys know each other?

Not to beat a dead horse but piling on to my previous thread - how many GA/CFI types have logged 1/1000 the time most of us have flying formation? How many ranging exercises have they flown? How much are they used to looking out the window and seeing another aircraft near them?

Yeah, that's why some idiot private pilot will nonchalantly say that "fighter jocks" fly over their 2K' strip at 300 feet or claim a viper got within 50 feet of them in a MOA. Such an opinion is worth nothing.

[DEVIL]

That escalated quickly; do you guys know each other?

Not to beat a dead horse but piling on to my previous thread - how many GA/CFI types have logged 1/1000 the time most of us have flying formation? How many ranging exercises have they flown? How much are they used to looking out the window and seeing another aircraft near them?

Yeah, that's why some idiot private pilot will nonchalantly say that "fighter jocks" fly over their 2K' strip at 300 feet or claim a viper got within 50 feet of them in a MOA. Such an opinion is worth nothing.

But how does that effect a 3 deg wire from FAF to EOR...I think we're all missing the point here

[Kenny Powers]

Deleted my post to clean up thread, should be something learned here, not this bullshit. The content is in the quoted posts.

ing ridiculous.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Kenny Powers

[Hercster]

Herc math here: ground speed/half. 120 ground speed = ~600 VVI. Done. You're welcome.

[brwwg&b]

So Whitman and Kenny have both proven that they need to be put in time out...

[Majestik Møøse]

Charleston is actually -600' MSL, so his math checks.

[Whitman]

Charleston is actually -600' MSL, so his math checks.

Your weak attempt at sarcasm is noted. Field Elev is -46 MSL at CHS. 10 miles x 3 = 3000 AGL. Easy. Done. No LGPOS math required.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Whitman

[matmacwc]

And a Viper zinger to boot. I think timeout is appropriate.

[disgruntledemployee]

It's important for aviators to know their environment. The C-27 vs Herk out near Pope is another example of crews oblivious to each other.

Keep scanning you all, it may be the only thing that saves you one day.

Out

[MooseDriver1]

Lots of dumb shizz going on here.

As I previously mentioned, F-16 was at MVA (1,600 MSL). Field elevation accounting for normal day at CHS is approx 90 feet on the standby altimeter.

[Whitman]

Lots of dumb shizz going on here.

As I previously mentioned, F-16 was at MVA (1,600 MSL). Field elevation accounting for normal day at CHS is approx 90 feet on the standby altimeter.

I'm sorry but ATC better have a damn good reason for having him this low at 20NM out, especially given that MSA is 3100ft. 1600 MSL is glideslope intercept altitude for R-15. That happens at 5.8 DME. Anyway, enough said. It will all come out in a few months. Just sucks 2 lives were lost and one ruined.

[Danny Noonin]

I'm sorry but ATC better have a damn good reason for having him this low at 20NM out, especially given that MSA is 3100ft. 1600 MSL is glideslope intercept altitude for R-15. That happens at 5.8 DME. Anyway, enough said. It will all come out in a few months. Just sucks 2 lives were lost and one ruined.

oh for fucks sake.

What does MSA have to do with vectoring altitude? Do you know what MSA means?

Edited July 16, 2015 by Danny Noonin

[icohftb]

I'm sorry but ATC better have a damn good reason for having him this low at 20NM out, especially given that MSA is 3100ft. 1600 MSL is glideslope intercept altitude for R-15. That happens at 5.8 DME. Anyway, enough said. It will all come out in a few months. Just sucks 2 lives were lost and one ruined.

Have you tried looking at the instrument approach procedures into CHS before coming up with this stuff?

https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1507/pdf/00076IL15.PDF

Edited July 17, 2015 by icohftb

[LookieRookie]

I'm sorry but ATC better have a damn good reason for having him this low at 20NM out, especially given that MSA is 3100ft. 1600 MSL is glideslope intercept altitude for R-15. That happens at 5.8 DME. Anyway, enough said. It will all come out in a few months. Just sucks 2 lives were lost and one ruined.

Have you ever flown vectors to final?

[HU&W]

Is this BODN or the comments section on a CNN plane crash article?

[HuggyU2]

Why insult CNN?

[MooseDriver1]

https://m.live5news.com/live5news/db_348659/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=4flY5zLS

[stract]

https://m.live5news.com/live5news/db_348659/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=4flY5zLS

"sorry that article is no longer available"

ETA: is the the article you were trying to link? https://www.live5news.com/story/29578829/ntsb-releases-preliminary-report-on-collision-of-cessna-and-f-16

ETA 2: well, that article is certainly an interesting read, to say the least. The ATC transcript especially.

Edited July 18, 2015 by stract

[xcraftllc]

I'm glad we live in an age where we can be informed of these incidents almost immediately online. Looks like another example of a lot of things going wrong at the same time, although it's still to early to be sure about anything. No flight following of even a flight plan for the Cessna, and what appears to be a delayed compliance with ATC for the military pilot, combined with a 100 foot error in radar altitude. It will be interesting to see what the final report says. Just another example of the seriousness of the business and how small the sky really is.

[Majestik Møøse]

Actual source:

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/Results.aspx?queryId=19a8c4be-02ca-4777-9235-83bd79448e31

[HossHarris]

I don't know if <30 seconds counts as delayed compliance. Especially if he didn't hear/register the 2 miles part. Especially while heads down in a single seat fighter. You don't usually get point outs as late as 2 miles for co-altitude, opposite direction traffic.

[xcraftllc]

True man that's why I said "what appears to be" (or I guess I could have said "what would seem to me to be"). I mean for all we know he was diagnosing an issue with a system on the jet. I personally don't have any experience flying around in anything going faster than about 160 knots as of yet, I guess I'll be able to relate when I get to T-38s.

Edited July 19, 2015 by xcraftllc

[Azimuth]

I'm glad we live in an age where we can be informed of these incidents almost immediately online. Looks like another example of a lot of things going wrong at the same time, although it's still to early to be sure about anything. No flight following of even a flight plan for the Cessna, and what appears to be a delayed compliance with ATC for the military pilot, combined with a 100 foot error in radar altitude. It will be interesting to see what the final report says. Just another example of the seriousness of the business and how small the sky really is.

How is flying VFR part of "things gone wrong?"