17D_guy Posted August 22, 2015 Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Another video - At least 7 dead so far, damn man. Edited August 22, 2015 by 17D_guy
M2 Posted August 22, 2015 Posted August 22, 2015 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/22/hawker-hunter-plane-crash-shoreham-air-show-reportsDamn.
HuggyU2 Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Was it a military or civilian demo?It's a Hawker Hunter. Civilian. I don't know the Brit rules on an airshow box. Either something was grossly ignored... or grossly not regulated. But this is going to be a game-changer for how they conduct airshows. Unfortunately, the Brits LOVE their airshows, and I'm curious how this will change that.Had this happened in the USA, his mistake would not have resulted in spectator fatalities... based on the news and spectators/friends reports. US Airshows are occasionally scoffed for their regulations... but there has not been a spectator fatality at a US airshow since 1954. Edited August 23, 2015 by Huggyu2 1
Herk Driver Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 ... but there has not been a spectator fatality at a US airshow since 1954. ??Maybe a subtle difference between an air race and an air show but weren't spectators killed in Reno in 2011? 1
Prosuper Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 US Airshows are occasionally scoffed for their regulations... but there has not been a spectator fatality at a US airshow since 1954. Not to be picky but would this be a US airshow even though it was in then West Germany.
GrndPndr Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Sorry, I'm with Huggy. Let's call it by intent, air "demonstrations" on US soil (okay, CONUS). In short, air shows in the US are pretty safe for spectators.
HuggyU2 Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) ??Maybe a subtle difference between an air race and an air show but weren't spectators killed in Reno in 2011? There's nothing subtle about the differences. Air racing is not covered by the same rules as airshow organizers and performers. They are completely different. And as for Ramstein, it operated under Euro-rules, which at the time allowed the performers to direct energy toward the crowd... which is not allowed in the US. Had it been an airshow in the US, the Frecce Tricolori would not have been allowed to fly that maneuver. Edited August 24, 2015 by Huggyu2 1
M2 Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Death toll rises to 11...and another video from very close to the point of impact...https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-34034430
fire4effect Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Actually reminds me of the Thunderbird crash of 2003......Just looked like he was mushing in
JeremiahWeed Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Had this happened in the USA, his mistake would not have resulted in spectator fatalities... based on the news and spectators/friends reports. US Airshows are occasionally scoffed for their regulations... but there has not been a spectator fatality at a US airshow since 1954. No spectators involved. Crashed on a nearby motorway and it appears all fatalities were simply using the road - not attending the airshow.
JeremiahWeed Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Actually reminds me of the Thunderbird crash of 2003......Just looked like he was mushing inDidn't really seem like he got enough vertical to do what he attempted, especially in a 50's vintage jet. Didn't we use ~10k for an over-the-top maneuver in the T-38?
HuggyU2 Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Didn't we use ~10k for an over-the-top maneuver in the T-38?Yes, about 8-10k' in a T-38. Hunter should be much less, depending on which motor this one had. "Spectator". I should have used "non-participant"... although during my 3+ years in the UK, I would see them stop on the motorway and simply watch a show from there. And based on the number of people standing on the motorway in some of the photos, I'd wager some casualties were "spectators".I'd like to see what the aerobatic box's layout was, in relation to the highway where he impacted. Based on the reaction to this in the UK, I'm sure we will see it soon. Edited August 24, 2015 by Huggyu2
BADFNZ Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I've never flown in an airshow, so I'm clueless on the subject, but aren't the spectator boxes set up to protect spectators at the show only, or do they actually take into account neighborhoods, roads, etc outside the gates?
HuggyU2 Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I've never flown in an airshow, so I'm clueless on the subject, but aren't the spectator boxes set up to protect spectators at the show only, or do they actually take into account neighborhoods, roads, etc outside the gates?Yes. In the US, they do take into account outside areas. A number of shows have been reduced in size, or eliminated, due to urban encroachment over the years. The Thunderbirds could not perform at Oshkosh for years because of it. They finally performed there last year, but I do not know what was changed to pull it off. To be overly simplified, for a show using high speed jets, the showline (Category I Line) will be 1500' and parallel to the spectator area. The opposite side of the showline also has to be 1500' from any people, and is called the Secondary Spectator Area. You will often see houses, and structures inside of it... but those shows will go and pay the residents and businesses to vacate the area during the show. Edited August 25, 2015 by Huggyu2 1
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