2016 UPT Board

[LookieRookie]

On 7/14/2016 at 9:56 AM, pancho17 said:

As it stands, the 10 year commitment is for traditional reserve. This change requires you to hold an active reserve position (ART) for 6 years of your commitment. That basically translates to a full time job on base- 5 days a week.

It's not an active reserve position, (AGR), it's an Air Reserve Technician position.

[LookieRookie]

On 7/14/2016 at 10:48 AM, willflyforfood said:

Then whats the upside or point of this? 

It's a bad deal unless you are hired into a higher GS equivalent position.

 

Things to remember though, you don't have to do it unless you signed a contract stating you will. It's civilian employment.

 

 

Edit: The memo mentions GS-12 positions which means you'll make more as an ART than a TR.

Edited July 19, 2016 by LookieRookie

[GlassEmpty]

You can be more active than a "1 weekend a month" guy. There are ways to double dip and make the pay worth it. You really need to do your research on this one. I know for me, prior E it's a struggle. Locality increase for a GS-9 is still under 80k for almost anywhere. Rumor has it if you take an ART position at any point you'll be released from this contract... If you're trying to go airlines and don't plan on going regionals idk what else your options are. Troughing can only get you so many hours.

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[F16Rooster]

22 hours ago, GlassEmpty said:

... If you're trying to go airlines and don't plan on going regionals idk what else your options are. Troughing can only get you so many hours.

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I'm a guard bum so maybe we're coming from different areas but I get more hours (a lot more, 450ish in the past 12 months) than any of our full-timers.  And after all the deductions (insurance, bullshit retirement plan, etc) I make more or less what my ART buddies make.  Maybe I'm missing something or it's a Guard vs Reserve thing but in my mind that decision is easy in our current environment.  There are some life factors like kids or living paycheck to paycheck that may make ART more attractive but I think for most troughing is a better deal. 

As to how that plays into the bigger topic: 6 years?  Wow that's a long time.  I probably would have been ok with it when I was begging for a UPT slot but with some perspective, no way.  This is only going to reduce the quality of the applicants in the long run.  Unless as bb17 says, there is more to the story. 

[GlassEmpty]

I'm a guard bum so maybe we're coming from different areas but I get more hours (a lot more, 450ish in the past 12 months) than any of our full-timers.  And after all the deductions (insurance, bullshit retirement plan, etc) I make more or less what my ART buddies make.  Maybe I'm missing something or it's a Guard vs Reserve thing but in my mind that decision is easy in our current environment.  There are some life factors like kids or living paycheck to paycheck that may make ART more attractive but I think for most troughing is a better deal. 

As to how that plays into the bigger topic: 6 years?  Wow that's a long time.  I probably would have been ok with it when I was begging for a UPT slot but with some perspective, no way.  This is only going to reduce the quality of the applicants in the long run.  Unless as bb17 says, there is more to the story. 

Well I'm new to the game and have been asking every question I can about this. The six year becomes four after you get qualified from how I'm reading this. So for airline wannabe pilot guys like me I have to calculate how long will it take for me to compile the hours for PIC and eligibility for the airlines. While posted minimum requirements may drop, that doesn't mean everyone that meets mins will get the jobs. Maybe I'm being too reserved as well as you mention avoiding paycheck to paycheck being that I have 3 deps on one paycheck for now. I have a lot to learn about troughing as well. This could also be huge in comparing fighters vs MAF.

But bottom line, taking the ART slot doesn't limit your pay if you're willing to work mil on the side and balance. I guess my bottom line is maximizing income as well as hours and finding that happy medium. If I'm missing something by all means spell it out.

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[Bobsan]

I heard a rumor that you could still do a waiver for the new ART requirement and it may become less mandatory.

[thankyouthanks]

Has anyone recently selected from the June board been sworn in and received any dates? 

[Prof_Chaos]

I was sworn in on Tuesday but haven't heard a peep from the 340th yet.

[Herk Driver]

I heard a rumor that you could still do a waiver for the new ART requirement and it may become less mandatory.

I wouldn't count on it. The new policy doesn't even go into effect until later this year.

[pancho17]

On 7/19/2016 at 7:11 AM, LookieRookie said:

It's not an active reserve position, (AGR), it's an Air Reserve Technician position.

Technically the memo says AGR or ART.

Edit: The memo itself says ART, but I got a copy of the new Memorandum of Understanding applicants are expected to sign, and it says "I understand that if selected for Undergraduate Flight Training, I agree to serve a total of six years in a full-time status. This six-year period of service will consist of Title 10 active military status for the initial formal school training courses followed by a dual-status (Title 5/Title 10) term developmental Air Reserve Technician position or in the Active Guard-Reserve (AGR) program, based on the needs of the Air Force Reserve. This six-year period of service shall commence upon entry into the first formal school training."

For those concerned about USERRA, there is a clause in there that states the five years can be extended as required to meet service requirements due to training costs, I would guess this falls under that clause. Not saying it makes it much better, but it's something.

 

1 hour ago, thankyouthanks said:

Has anyone recently selected from the June board been sworn in and received any dates? 

I'm slated for September OTS (9/14 start). I just started calling around, the 340th desk number is available on Google.

Edited July 28, 2016 by pancho17
Clarification

[thankyouthanks]

5 minutes ago, pancho17 said:

Technically the memo says AGR or ART. For those concerned about USERRA, there is a clause in there that states the five years can be extended as required to meet service requirements due to training costs, I would guess this falls under that clause. Not saying it makes it much better, but it's something.

 

I'm slated for September OTS (9/14 start). I just started calling around, the 340th desk number is available on Google.

Were you non prior service? I still haven't sworn in yet. Supposed to next week. 

[pancho17]

2 minutes ago, thankyouthanks said:

Were you non prior service? I still haven't sworn in yet. Supposed to next week. 

Yes, NPS. Was supposed to swear in last week and inprocess next week but was delayed a little with paperwork. They were ok to keep my September OTS and inprocess the week before I ship out- sounded like that was non-standard and they prefer 30 days prior. I specifically asked to be gained as quickly as possible; nice folks over there. 

[BUM15]

Question regarding the new temp-Art deal:

 

As a very recent UPT graduate, I will not finish my FTU for a few months, will I have to ask my unit for a baby art job? Or is it kind of implied that I will "get one if I want" based off of this memo? 

 

my my question is, does it depend on how bad the unit wants to fight for one of these jobs for new studs on their prog tour or is it thought of as a sure thing? 

[GlassEmpty]

Question regarding the new temp-Art deal:

 

As a very recent UPT graduate, I will not finish my FTU for a few months, will I have to ask my unit for a baby art job? Or is it kind of implied that I will "get one if I want" based off of this memo? 

 

my my question is, does it depend on how bad the unit wants to fight for one of these jobs for new studs on their prog tour or is it thought of as a sure thing? 

How recent? The way it's been explained to me you can count on it. But not forced. I grad my FTU in October and my hand isn't forced into anything but it is an option. I can tell you every career reservist I've talked to is screaming "don't do it". Every palace chaser who is tasting freedom is saying "it could be worse and you have a guaranteed paycheck". For the latter question, they won't have to fight for these positions. They're temporary positions offered to try and keep folks around.

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[BUM15]

Thanks for the response. I graduated end of June, yea it seems interesting tho. Basically I'm trying to figure out if I should start looking at regionals/other FO flying gigs once my prog tour runs out or not. 

 

decisions desicions 

 

best of luck to everyone who just got selected btw!

Edited July 30, 2016 by BUM15

[scoobs]

On 7/25/2016 at 5:57 PM, F16Rooster said:

I'm a guard bum so maybe we're coming from different areas but I get more hours (a lot more, 450ish in the past 12 months) than any of our full-timers.  And after all the deductions (insurance, bullshit retirement plan, etc) I make more or less what my ART buddies make.  Maybe I'm missing something or it's a Guard vs Reserve thing but in my mind that decision is easy in our current environment.  There are some life factors like kids or living paycheck to paycheck that may make ART more attractive but I think for most troughing is a better deal. 

As to how that plays into the bigger topic: 6 years?  Wow that's a long time.  I probably would have been ok with it when I was begging for a UPT slot but with some perspective, no way.  This is only going to reduce the quality of the applicants in the long run.  Unless as bb17 says, there is more to the story. 

I don't buy it. The benefits package alone would put you ahead of bumming pay. I don't understand your hate towards federal government retirement but you still are getting a 401k match which is huge long term.

Pay for a O2 is in the low 50k which means you would have to work 25 pay day's bumming which is hard to do. At least with the Art you don't have to be on the road to get paid.

Edited August 1, 2016 by scoobs

[Herk Driver]

Any scoop on if this memo requiring ART/AGR service has been kicked down to the ANG as well? I've skimmed the forums here and elsewhere but all I see is AFRC specific stuff.

Not sure what you mean by kicked down to the ANG.

This was signed by the AFRC CC. Only him. I don't think NGB has any reason or interest in signing a similar memo but who knows.

[bb17]

2 hours ago, Kiloalpha said:

You're absolutely right, I'm not holding my breath. Just honestly curious on how far this idea has carried. Thanks for the info though.

FWIW, I'm not sure how the NGB would try to implement such a policy. One would think that the hurdles created by each state would make it a mine field... But admittedly I'm sitting on the outside looking in, no great insight or expertise here. As someone managing a business w/ a side job though, I've basically written off AFRC thanks to this policy.

Had you been picked up by an AFRC squadron yet or just been looking around? 

[bb17]

24 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

Herk, it was just a phrase. I wondered with Total Force being the buzzword... if they'd align both under similar programs.

Nope, placed the calls and had a few interviews but no luck to date. I saw you got picked up by the AFRC board BB... Congrats!

I'm going to keep looking at AFRC and ANG, but if the policy is as rigid as the memo seems to make it sound... That makes it hard for those of us with established business connections/jobs that we want to try and return to after seasoning.

Thanks! The info that was relayed to me from my squadron was that the memo becomes mandatory for the November 2016 board but "encouraged" for people currently in the pipeline, so if this is the truth then I should be okay, but sounds like it is a deal breaker for you if you haven't been picked up yet. I am in a similar situation as you with the established business aspect so the 6 year ART would have been a deal breaker for me too. Looks like I got lucky but need to proceed cautiously. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by bb17

[thankyouthanks]

Mandatory for all recent selects. I've signed the new commitment form and it is only for afrc as far as I know. 

[bb17]

3 minutes ago, thankyouthanks said:

Mandatory for all recent selects. I've signed the new commitment form and it is only for afrc as far as I know. 

When did you sign it? Everyone who got selected by my squadron has been told to not sign it unless they want to and there doesn't seem to be any backlash from that. What did they tell you? When did you enlist? 

[DeltaTango]

On 8/1/2016 at 0:31 PM, Kiloalpha said:

Any scoop on if this memo requiring ART/AGR service has been kicked down to the ANG as well? I've skimmed the forums here and elsewhere but all I see is AFRC specific stuff.

I am ANG, I spoke to my hiring guy at the unit im heading to after UPT (going to OTS AUG) and apparently there are discussions at NGB regarding this memo. They may look at manning at a unit level and determine if something similar to this (if not identical) will be implemented. I was told it is very possible that something similar (if not identical) to this memo will be in effect post graduation. As of yet, no official documents I have signed. I will be visiting the unit soon and will check in.

[BUM15]

Does anyone know, since I was a UFT graduate before 1 Dec 16, will I still have the normal prog tour or will it go straight to the temp art deal(which I would have to chose to do)?

Havent really gotten a straight answer from my unit, I honestly don't think they know much about it just yet. Just wondering if anyone had gotten back to their units or heard anything new about it. FYI legacy Herc unit 

[bb17]

3 hours ago, BUM15 said:

Does anyone know, since I was a UFT graduate before 1 Dec 16, will I still have the normal prog tour or will it go straight to the temp art deal(which I would have to chose to do)?

Havent really gotten a straight answer from my unit, I honestly don't think they know much about it just yet. Just wondering if anyone had gotten back to their units or heard anything new about it. FYI legacy Herc unit 

You don't have to sign it so don't let them talk you into it unless it is something you want to do. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by bb17

[knightops]

This will ONLY be mandatory for candidates meeting the 16-02 and later AFRC UPT board. It is optional for others.