Prior military aviator going through UPT

[magnus017]

Current Army C-12 aviator here. Since the demolition of the Air Force FWQ, I'm assuming that on occasion you get some high hour Army fixed wing bubbas and/or prior helo guys in upt. I was just curious if they go through the exact same curriculum/same hours/etc as the regular students (Seems silly that I'd need the full academic curriculum/the full flight hour load if I already had 1000+ hours in a C-12 and 500+ in a Hawk). Also curious how many guys you all see going through UPT above age 30. Thanks! 

[snafu]

As an instructor in UPT I saw a few dudes pushing 30. Wasn't uncommon and typically their maturity was appreciated. As far as priors, I didn't have any of those helo or Army types in my flight room but someone else may have.

[hispeed7721]

When I was at CBM there was a class that had an Army Blackhawk pilot turned ANG guy in one of the classes. He had wings, tons of hours, etc etc but still had to go through T-0 all the way to graduation just like every other stud.

I also saw a couple airline pilots who were picking up ANG gigs go through. Same story. Previous flying matters 0 to Big Blue.

They (AETC) don't care what previous experience you have, but your class will definitely appreciate it as long as your not a jackass.

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[Breckey]

Don't they do interservice transfers in FW? We have prior Army RW and Navy RW pilots in Air Force helps and they went straight to IQT. No UPT required.

[magnus017]

I know they can waiver for helos only but my interest would be heavies or fighters. I have no idea how they handle prior Army FW pilots as there are very few of us young enough to even entertain a transfer.

Edited March 18, 2016 by magnus017

[Herkasaurus]

A buddy of mine a few classes behind me at UPT was a Blackhawk guy in the Army. He got picked up to fly Herks with the ANG. All he had to do was T-1s, and he had a completely separate syllabus. This was about 9yrs ago at Vance, so I don't know how things have changed or what his unit did to pull that off.

[HeloDude]

10 hours ago, hispeed7721 said:

Previous flying matters 0 to Big Blue.

Actually, previous flying in a different branch of the military does matter to big blue.  

[AwShoot1209]

I was an IP in the T-6 flight at CBM with the previously mentioned Blackhawk guy.  He had something like 8-9k hrs in blackhawks and regional jets (civilian job), and was headed to a reserve or guard C-130 job.  He didn't have to go to IFS, but he completed the entire SUPT syllabus.  He did very well, as you can imagine, better than the CFI/CFII guys we'd get.  On the HAPL demo I pulled his power in the middle of the MOA and took the radios; he did the rest and could have stuck the landing.  His favorite game was pulling out TERPS regs and playing stump the FAIP.  It was a good time.  

Expect the full SUPT syllabus, which should be a quick read through some AF regs and the Dash-1 for you.  My .02...remain as humble as possible.  You'll look older and have Army wings on your nametag, so no need to establish credentials.  There's the standard harassment games, queep, etc so keep a solid attitude and you'll have a blast.  You'll be learning two new aircraft, so enjoy the opportunity to fly without the combat focus.  It's just pure flying (min queep for the students).  Teach your fellow classmates as much as you can, and share stories.  Most of each class has zero prior active duty experience, so your attitude will establish their expectations.  Enjoy the SRO gig.  

Edited March 18, 2016 by AwShoot1209

[hispeed7721]

Actually, previous flying in a different branch of the military does matter to big blue.  

In terms of UPT, that doesn't seem to be the case. Big picture, definitely, but not in reference to his question. I should have been more specific

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[Guardian]

Actually, previous flying in a different branch of the military does matter to big blue.  

In terms of UPT, that doesn't seem to be the case. Big picture, definitely, but not in reference to his question. I should have been more specific

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There was a prior are me Helo pilot going through when I went through. In the T6 phase he just had to do an abbreviated syllabus then go through the entire T1 syllabus. So his prior experience mattered in that case. I bet if anyone were to check the official training publications for a AETC there would be a prior qual syllabus in there.

[Motofalcon]

The only one I know of was about 6-9 years ago - prior army helo WO, but crossed into the blue and became a normal active duty 2lt in the AF. The AF didn't care about his prior time, he went through the full UPT syll, and in the end got FAIPed (because he was still a Lt - they won't faip a late rated Capt, because they care about rank/hurting your career, but they don't care about age). He then went on to fly Vipers. I can PM you his contact info if you'd like. 

I'll ask the AETC nerds around here if anything has changed since then. I think the reason the other cases mentioned above are different (abbreviated syllabi, etc) is because of the guard/reserve aspect. If you want to compete for an active duty fighter, you have to compete on the same playing field as every other active duty UPT stud. 

[magnus017]

I think I would most definitely want to do the guard/reserve route, although I'll talk to an active duty rep just to see what the career outlook would be like. Again I'll be 32-33 and it just seems like the reserve/guard would be the most realistic route to take.

[BFM this]

The only one I know of was about 6-9 years ago - prior army helo WO, but crossed into the blue and became a normal active duty 2lt in the AF. The AF didn't care about his prior time, he went through the full UPT syll, and in the end got FAIPed (because he was still a Lt - they won't faip a late rated Capt, because they care about rank/hurting your career, but they don't care about age). He then went on to fly Vipers. I can PM you his contact info if you'd like. 

I'll ask the AETC nerds around here if anything has changed since then. I think the reason the other cases mentioned above are different (abbreviated syllabi, etc) is because of the guard/reserve aspect. If you want to compete for an active duty fighter, you have to compete on the same playing field as every other active duty UPT stud. 

That would have been awesome.

We had a similar guy in a sq I was in. The thing is: rated officer gate months are rated officer gate months; AF has nothing to say about it. So, as. 2Lt, he was getting full 650 flight pay, and before he pinned Capt, he had a star on his wings.

[HossHarris]

There is a "fixed wing QUAL" syllabus specifically for rotor guys going to fixed wing. 

[LookieRookie]

There isn't currently a syllabus 

7 hours ago, Guardian said:

 

In terms of UPT, that doesn't seem to be the case. Big picture, definitely, but not in reference to his question. I should have been more specific

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There was a prior are me Helo pilot going through when I went through. In the T6 phase he just had to do an abbreviated syllabus then go through the entire T1 syllabus. So his prior experience mattered in that case. I bet if anyone were to check the official training publications for a AETC there would be a prior qual syllabus in there.

There isn't an abbreviated syllabus anymore for Army rotary guys. They go through UPT. I don't know about a FW qual'd Army though, that's a unique situation.

[hispeed7721]

There is a "fixed wing QUAL" syllabus specifically for rotor guys going to fixed wing. 

While I do think there is merit for a different syllabus, if what you say is true it's not being recognized or implemented by all UPT bases/squadrons

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[HossHarris]

That's also old data. 

Because I'm old. 

(Get off my lawn)

[boxster02]

Thread defibrillator: ON

 

Anyone know how they are dealing with USMC/USN (Joint FW trained) Rotor guys now-a-days without FWQ? I'm a Cobra driver sorting out this blue nonsense. I know the Q was designed for Army dudes since they didn't have a credited FW primary....

 

Someone mentioned intercepting in the D/E/F course?

From the old MASL:

F-V5A-R-F U 17w VAR 80R 2 2 No T-38 TRANSITION (F CRS)

Course Description:

Provides jet currency training in the T-38 where required for subsequent Air Force formal course flying training. Category A is approximately 3 training days. Catagory B is approximately 6 training days. Category C is approximately 21 training days. Category D is approximately 22 training days. Category E is aprroximately 45 training days. 

 

Any insight?

[Danger41]

Were you a Cobra dude the whole time or some time in Hornets or anything? If no FW time, expect a full syllabus if transitioning to jets.

[ClearedHot]

It was a hundred years ago but in my UPT class we had a former warrant officer who flew Cobras, had 3,000+ hours and he still had to do the full UPT syllabus.  He did well #7/26.

[Bode]

Maybe I'm wrong but the C-12 is a FW multiple engine.


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[Guest]

It was a hundred years ago but in my UPT class we had a former warrant officer who flew Cobras, had 3,000+ hours and he still had to do the full UPT syllabus.  He did well #7/26.

#7/26 SPs? That's a second tier strat. The best guys in the class probably got strat'd as Lts. Based on my estimate, he was probably actually bottom third with a weak flight duty position strat like that!

 

 

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[boxster02]

10 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Were you a Cobra dude the whole time or some time in Hornets or anything? If no FW time, expect a full syllabus if transitioning to jets.

 

Thanks!

The SuperCobra was the only gray bird I flew. I completed joint primary (think the af calls it Phase 2) in the T-34C. We had a bunch of AF dudes in the class and a bunch of bros went to Vance for exchange. We do it differently in creating FW qualified dudes first, then branch off to rotors, cargo, strike etc... that training satisfied FAA single engine commercial/ instrument requirements. In their terminology, I am fixed wing- qualified. According the AFI- I'd rate silver wings (if I went rotors) or upon completion of a FW jet transition course for fighters. 

 

Army cobra/c-12 etc is completely different. The AF does not recognize  ANY of your flight phases for equivalency training, which sucks. 

 

1st image: AFI blue wing requirements 

2nd image: ARB request statement

Edited May 14, 2017 by boxster02
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