Avoiding no-go ground test

[SPAWNmaster]

Hello - I have a religious requirement about what I put into my body (at least when it comes to psychotropics and other substances including caffeine, etc). I was told that I have to ground test no-go pills before my UPT class starts next week. Flight doc indicated that if I wouldn't proceed with the ground-test, the air force would show me where the door was. Are there any waivers or known ETP's that, AFI's, etc. that might let me skip this? Please note, I fully understand why we are ground-testing, I just can't reconcile it for the religious reason I mentioned before. Thanks for any advice.

[jazzdude]

Hello - I have a religious requirement about what I put into my body (at least when it comes to psychotropics and other substances including caffeine, etc). I was told that I have to ground test no-go pills before my UPT class starts next week. Flight doc indicated that if I wouldn't proceed with the ground-test, the air force would show me where the door was. Are there any waivers or known ETP's that, AFI's, etc. that might let me skip this? Please note, I fully understand why we are ground-testing, I just can't reconcile it for the religious reason I mentioned before. Thanks for any advice.

Pretty sure that ground test of go/no-go is voluntary since their use is voluntary. Still have to ground test cipro/doxy though

[hispeed7721]

Ground testing is voluntary, however, the flight doc can ground you if you decide not to take them.

I'm assuming it was your flight commander or someone in the ops squadron who told you it was required...I would go talk to the med folks directly and let them know what the situation is

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[SPAWNmaster]

The flight doc himself told me that ground testing is required by AETC mandate and if I didn't do it that it would stop me in the pipeline and I'd be sent home. Can anyone validate this? I don't want to cause a big stink nor create a bad impression upfront but I'd like to stick up for my beliefs.

[jazzdude]

Or since it's use operationally is voluntary and there's no way to verify if you took them since you take them at home in the evening...

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[Ram]

Ask the doc to show you chapter and verse the supposed regulation he's so in love with. If he refuses, inform him that your next stop is your commander's office so the two of you can have a little chat with the IG.

After that,

1. Lawyer up

2. Delete Facebook

3. Hit the gym

[Longhorn15]

How do you feel about killing people?

[SurelySerious]

How do you feel about killing people?

Irrelevant.

[guineapigfury]

If you're being discriminated against because of your religious beliefs, consider a quick chat with both the Chaplain and MEO.  I remember from week 1 of OTS that "the Air Force's default response to questions of religious accomodation is 'yes'".  

Or you can fudge the truth to achieve the correct result.  Pick up the pills from the pharmacy, flush them down the toilet and tell the flight doc the next day "the pills didn't affect me".  That would be a true statement, and you can get on with your life.

[deaddebate]

Read AFI 48-149 para.s 7.4. and sub-paragraphs.  You cannot be forced to take these stimulants or sedatives.  However, in the rare instances that the Wing/CC and MAJCOM determine that fatigue management medications are necessary to perform a mission, you may be excluded from that mission.

Separately, you MUST perform ground testing on Ciprofloxacin (an antibiotic) IAW AFI 48-123 para 1.1.2.1.

[SPAWNmaster]

Thank you all for the advice. In particular thank you for finding that bit in AFI 48-149. I am not interested in pencil-whipping this thing and wanted to approach the right way. I ended up letting my Flt/CC know that I had the discussion with the flight doc and am awaiting further guidance from my chain. I do not have any issue taking the antibiotic.

Thanks all

[HossHarris]

Also take this as a larger lesson for the rest of your Air Force career. People will invariably tell you what's best/easiest for THEM. You will be BFM'ing shoes for the rest of your adult life. 

[magnetfreezer]

On 4/21/2016 at 3:27 PM, andrewgarcia86 said:

Thank you all for the advice. In particular thank you for finding that bit in AFI 48-149. I am not interested in pencil-whipping this thing and wanted to approach the right way. I ended up letting my Flt/CC know that I had the discussion with the flight doc and am awaiting further guidance from my chain. I do not have any issue taking the antibiotic.

Thanks all

Good luck. Had a Mormon pilot in the squadron who didn't take dex or anything with caffeine - he still flew 12+ hour combat sorties and no one gave him crap for it, so it is possible.

[Toro]

When did they start testing guys in UPT?

[SurelySerious]

It was a thing in 2008.

[Right Seat Driver]

On 4/23/2016 at 0:46 AM, Toro said:

When did they start testing guys in UPT?

I ground tested in UPT in 2007.  The ground testing documentation is still in my med records.

[SPAWNmaster]

Hi all, just an update on this with resolution.

My chain quickly looked into it and came to the speedy consensus with the Med Group that there is nothing forcing me to ground test the hypnotics at this juncture. It was mentioned to me that it's possible that downrange or back at my home unit the answer may be different but for now I am fully accommodated for.  

I also did have a chance for a follow up conversation with the flight doc in question who was polite about the whole thing and acknowledged that this was something that hadn't really been dug too deep into in the past so I think it was a new question for a lot of folks, which is fair in my mind.

Either way I'm just relieved over the original concern regarding elimination for not ground testing. Thanks again for all the input. 

[guineapigfury]

Glad it all worked out.

[Ram]

Another WOM crushed, which always makes me happy.

[Jaded]

I was going to say that calling Ambien a "hypnotic" is kind of dramatic, but thinking about it, that actually is an extremely accurate way to describe the experience.

[Ram]

I like to take one and then see if I can rub one out before passing out. No matter what happens, I win.

[HerkFE]

12 hours ago, Ram said:

I like to take one and then see if I can rub one out before passing out. No matter what happens, I win.

....and it's Ram with the BODN trophy for the day. 

 

[HossHarris]

On April 26, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Ram said:

I like to take one and then see if I can rub one out before passing out. No matter what happens, I win.

The ambien olympics. Classic

[uhhello]

Not now ambien walrus, I'm trying to hide my car keys.  

[pawnman]

On 4/21/2016 at 2:35 PM, Longhorn15 said:

How do you feel about killing people?

It's remarkable how flexible most religions are on that point, while remaining rigid on things like pre-marital sex, alcohol, and apparently, Ambien use.