Where should I begin? What do I need to do? And other such questions.

[NorthCW]

Greetings!

I apologize if this isn't the proper forum for this type of question, but I figured posting here would a safe bet.

As the title implies, I'm in the process of beginning my career, but I need advice on which route will take me to where I want to be and what I can do to help me along.

As of right now, my plan involves getting the Air Force Academy next year as my long term goal is to fly fighters for the USAF, and from what I can gather, USAFA is the direct route to fighters as far as the Air Force is concerned. (Please, correct me if that statement is false, that's just what I've gathered.) If I get in, I want to try for the powered flying team and/or Wings of Green. I also am thinking of majoring in either Aeronautical Engineering or MSS, I haven't decided yet as both subjects are incredibly interesting and appealing to me, however I'm leaning more toward Aeronautical Engineering. Any thoughts/opinions on which one would be more useful in my career are greatly appreciated.  

If I get rejected from USAFA twice, then I'll start shooting for either the Merchant Marine Academy or maybe the Naval Academy, and if that falls through for one reason or another, then try to get a slot via AFROTC.   

Background information:

• 17 years old, turning 18 next month.
• Home schooled entire life (if anyone from USAFA can provide opinions on whether this fact gives me any advantages/disadvantages, I'd appreciate the feedback.)
• Graduated early in 2014 with a 3.8 GPA. 
• Flying single engine aircraft for 3 years now, still a student with 58 logged hours. I should have the means to finish the remaining 10 hours in my syllabus and get my PPL within the next few months.
• Civil Air Patrol cadet for 4 years, and soon to be training as a SAR cadet mission pilot.
• SAT scores are due back May 10th, but from my practice scores, I should be getting around a 1350-1400/1600 on the new SAT. (Practice tests for the old SAT were showing a 2250/2400.) This was my first time taking it, and I'm going to retest in June to increase my chances for a better score.
• Planning on taking the ACT soon, practice tests have been showing a score of around 32
• Good vision, last time I took a vision exam, I got 20/10 in my right eye and 20/20 in my left.
• In a good physical state, I can do 75 pushups, 63 situps (2 minutes), best mile run was ~6:40, and the only thing I struggle with are pullups. I did get to a point where I could do 3 consecutively, then I slacked off too long and I'm back at struggling to get in 1 good form pullup. 
• In the process of applying for USAFA once my SAT scores get in. If I don't get accepted next year, then I'll reapply to USAFA and apply to USMMA, USNA, and AFROTC. 

I plan on making a lifelong career out in military aviation, and honestly, it's not just a goal at this point, but also an increasingly intense passion. I love every aspect of aviation, from the mechanics and engineering involved, to the everyday challenges that arise. And the military lifestyle is also appealing to me, the physical aspects, the leadership involved, comradery, etc.   Fighters are what I strive for and what call to me, specifically, the F-22. I just need to figure out what path to take that will eventually lead me to that slot.

My top 3 ideal aircraft are:

- F-22,

- F/A-18 

- A-10 

Now, people like me who want fighters, especially the F-22 or F-15E, are a dime a dozen, I understand that. But what can I do that will set me apart, give me a good head start, and put me into the competition?

Also, a few other questions I have:

Which branch will give me a better chance of getting a fighter slot, and if I get into USAFA, would making the powered flying team help me any in UPT?

Would it be possible to transfer to the USAF if I graduate from lets say, USNA or West Point? I know that USMMA gives you an option of which branch to commission into, is there any type of program or little known way to do the same through another academy? 

If I get selected for cargo, would there be a way to reapply for SUPT and get into a fighter squadron after a certain amount of time, or are you essentially stuck with what you're given?

Although I have a bit of an idea of what to do, I'm not sure on what would be the best option for me, or if I even qualify for what I want to do to begin with. I know what I want, but I just am lacking a clear direction.

Any advice, opinions, pro tips, personal experience, anything really, would be very helpful and incredibly appreciated. 

Thank you all in advance.

 

 

 

[Chida]

Get into an academy, get to your fall senior year, then you may have options. Take it one step at a time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Switch408]

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

from what I can gather, USAFA is the direct route to fighters as far as the Air Force is concerned.  

Not exactly. USAFA is your best chance at getting a pilot slot if you want to talk strictly about odds. Put it to you this way, the Academy by itself gets about the same number of pilot slots for one class that the whole country's ROTC class gets. So if you want to all but guarantee a pilot slot, go to USAFA. HOWEVER- once you get to UPT, you're competing on the same level playing field as everyone else- ROTC, OTS, and USAFA. Your diploma from USAFA isn't going to help you or give you a leg up on your peers in UPT who are also trying for a fighter slot.

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

I also am thinking of majoring in either Aeronautical Engineering or MSS, I haven't decided yet as both subjects are incredibly interesting and appealing to me, however I'm leaning more toward Aeronautical Engineering. Thoughts/opinions on which one would be more useful in my career are greatly appreciated.  

Since your goal here is to become a pilot, your degree won't really help you or hurt you. You'll take enough core engineering classes at USAFA regardless of your major that will "shape your mind" around techy subjects, so major in whatever you like. Everyone graduates with a Bachelor of Science, whether you major in Philosophy (and yes, that's a major at USAFA now) or Physics. That being said, if you have any aspirations to become a Test Pilot at some point in your career, you'll need to have majored in engineering. So keep that in mind when choosing...

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

Home schooled entire life (if anyone from USAFA can provide opinions on whether this fact gives me any advantages/disadvantages, I'd appreciate the feedback.)

I knew a few homeschooled dudes there and they didn't seem to have any advantage/disadvantage. You're either a bro to your peers or you aren't. Be humble, help out your classmates, and don't take things too seriously.

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

Flying single engine aircraft for 3 years now, still a student with 58 logged hours. I should have the means to finish the remaining 10 hours in my syllabus and get my PPL within the next few months.

If you plan on trying to make the Flying Team, finish your PPL. I'm not saying you can't go to USAFA without a PPL and still find the time to get it before Flying Team tryouts, but I'm saying you can't go to USAFA without a PPL and still find the time to get it before Flying Team tryouts. And if you're like me and didn't find the time to finish it before I went, feck it. Try out for the Wings of Blue instead. As a former team member, we had the most fun of anyone at the academy, and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Ever.

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

Now, people like me who want fighters, especially the F-22 or F-15E, are a dime a dozen, I understand that. But what can I do that will set me apart, give me a good head start, and put me into the competition?

At this point, you're getting a little ahead of yourself. First, manage your expectations. Dropping a raptor or strike eagle out of UPT isn't just about how bad you want it or how hard you work. Timing is everything. Go check the most recent UPT drop out of Vance on another thread on this website, and you'll see that only one person in the class got a fighter which happened to be an F-16. When you graduate UPT, you're at the mercy of the needs of the Air Force. If they don't need any raptor pilots at the moment, then no one in that class will drop a raptor, even if the number 1 graduate listed F-22 as their number 1 pick. That's just the way it is. But to answer your question, start developing a solid work and study ethic. Lame answer, I know, but that's what will get you through any rated training program better than anything you can study or work on now.

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

Which branch will give me a better chance of getting a fighter slot, and if I get into USAFA, would making the powered flying team help me any in UPT?

If you're talking about percentages, the Navy has the highest percentage of fighter pilots. So decide if you want to live on an aircraft carrier for a significant portion of your life. No thanks...

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

Would it be possible to transfer to the USAF if I graduate from lets say, USNA or West Point? I know that USMMA gives you an option of which branch to commission into, is there any type of program or little known way to do the same through another academy? 

Is it possible? Yes. Should that be your goal from the start? No. Every service academy class has a few of their graduates that cross commission in to a different service branch, but I wouldn't bank on it.

17 hours ago, NorthCW said:

If I get selected for cargo, would there be a way to reapply for SUPT and get into a fighter squadron after a certain amount of time, or are you essentially stuck with what you're given?

If you drop a heavy out of UPT, you're flying heavies for the rest of your career. Have there been exceptions to that rule in the history of the Air Force? Sure. But those instances are few and far between. So the straight answer to that is no, you cannot cross train to fighters after entering the heavy world. That being said, don't knock it before you try it. I have plenty of friends that fly something starting with a "C" that wanted fighters originally but that now love their aircraft and are glad they fly it. 

Hope that helps man. You're welcome to PM me if you have any other questions. I don't come close to having all the answers and much is to be gained on this forum from folks wiser than me, but I'll pass on whatever I can to help you out. We've all been there in one way or another...

[hispeed7721]

Switch hit all the right points.

Absolutely do not go to the academy (any academy) just because they'll give you a "leg up." Post-graduation, there is no benefit to having gone to the zoo, the only possible exception being networking, and even that is a long shot.

You could be the most bad ass pilot ever, but depending on the year you graduate from UPT there could be 100 F22's or 0. Do your best, and make the best of whatever assignment you get. The guys that are unhappy are the ones constantly thinking the grass is always greener somewhere else, and it rarely is.

At this point, you don't know what you don't know. If/when you go to UPT, there will usually be several briefings throughout the year about different aircraft from crews that fly in to talk to studs. Go to every one, even heavies, and get a good sight picture about what they REALLY do so you can make the most informed decision about what you want to do.

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[guineapigfury]

If you are set on a particular airframe, find a guard or reserve unit that flys that plane and start talking to them.

[HeloDude]

My question is how can you do 75 push-ups and run a 6:40 mile and now can only do 1 pull-up?  Back in the day with the old 5-event test (which was much harder). in ROTC/AFA, guys had to do at least 4 pull-ups to pass.  Perhaps you're 6'5" and weigh 270lbs, but even then I would expect someone with the rest of those stats to do more pull-ups.  Just struck me as odd.

Either way, guys on here are giving you some good advice.  As for what type of aircraft you want, sure it's fun to have far reaching goals--but at this point you should focus on goals that are more attainable at this point in life.  Right now if you want to be an officer and potentially a pilot, focus your goals on getting into a commissioning source and figuring out how to do well in school and be a good cadet.  I'm getting to be one of the older guys now, but I can still vividly recall how people were at my AFROTC freshman orientation day, most of who were talking about wanting to fly fighters--well a 1/3 of those people didn't go to field training, only half of those even eligible got pilot slots, a handful of those guys quit/washed out of UPT, so in the end maybe 2 or 3 of that original class of 50-60 became fighter pilots.  Just some perspective for you if your only goal is to fly fighters...odds are (especially now) you won't.  I know you're young and have aspirations (which is good) but the first to thing to start trying to learn is what it means to be in the military and more importantly an officer.  Good luck and make sure to learn how to be a good follower/teammate along the way.

[M2]

When did it only become a one-mile run as well?  Hell, even my 53-yr-old fat ass could (almost) run a mile in 6:40, depending on who/what was chasing me!

Back during the Stone Age, I could knock out five miles in a half hour.  A sub-9-minute mile-and-a-half run was expected when I was in AFROTC...

It's go time, buttercup, so grab your jock...if you need one!

 

[NorthCW]

5 hours ago, Switch408 said:

If you plan on trying to make the Flying Team, finish your PPL. I'm not saying you can't go to USAFA without a PPL and still find the time to get it before Flying Team tryouts, but I'm saying you can't go to USAFA without a PPL and still find the time to get it before Flying Team tryouts. And if you're like me and didn't find the time to finish it before I went, feck it. Try out for the Wings of Blue instead. As a former team member, we had the most fun of anyone at the academy, and no one will ever convince me otherwise. Ever.

Thank you very much for the response, that's a lot of great advice and information and I appreciate it! You definitely helped clear up a lot for me.

Side question: If I get accepted to USAFA, would it be possible to do both the flying team and Wings of Blue? Or should I try out the soaring program and try to become a instructor? Those are the main 3 programs that have my interest, the falconry program is also something I'm wanting to do, and ideally I'd like to try to get into as many programs as possible if I get there, but I don't know how much time between classes I'd be able to realistically put aside for them.

I realize that I'm thinking over things that are way out in the future, and might not even happen, but I figured it's best to learn about the options out there now while I do have time to think things through and make the best informed decisions for if/when I do get faced with them, if that makes sense.

3 hours ago, HeloDude said:

My question is how can you do 75 push-ups and run a 6:40 mile and now can only do 1 pull-up?  Back in the day with the old 5-event test (which was much harder). in ROTC/AFA, guys had to do at least 4 pull-ups to pass.  Perhaps you're 6'5" and weigh 270lbs, but even then I would expect someone with the rest of those stats to do more pull-ups.  Just struck me as odd.

Ha, I understand what you mean. I've only recently began working on pull-ups, I don't have a lot of strength in my back, just a result of years worth of poor fitness decisions on my end. But I am working on targeting my weak points and trying to build up endurance and strength. By the end of the year, my goal is to be able to do 10 consecutively. 

3 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Either way, guys on here are giving you some good advice.  As for what type of aircraft you want, sure it's fun to have far reaching goals--but at this point you should focus on goals that are more attainable at this point in life.  Right now if you want to be an officer and potentially a pilot, focus your goals on getting into a commissioning source and figuring out how to do well in school and be a good cadet.  I'm getting to be one of the older guys now, but I can still vividly recall how people were at my AFROTC freshman orientation day, most of who were talking about wanting to fly fighters--well a 1/3 of those people didn't go to field training, only half of those even eligible got pilot slots, a handful of those guys quit/washed out of UPT, so in the end maybe 2 or 3 of that original class of 50-60 became fighter pilots.  Just some perspective for you if your only goal is to fly fighters...odds are (especially now) you won't.  I know you're young and have aspirations (which is good) but the first to thing to start trying to learn is what it means to be in the military and more importantly an officer.  Good luck and make sure to learn how to be a good follower/teammate along the way.

That's good to know, thank you. I'll definitely be remembering the reality and odds of actually being selected for fighters, and I'll be keeping my mind open. 

Also, with your last point of learning what it means to be in the military and to be a officer first, could you provide any opinions/advice on what it takes to not just be a officer, but a good officer? What I've come to understand from the small bit I've been told over the years, what makes a good officer, specifically a good new 2nd Lt fresh from USAFA, is the ability to trust the chiefs and more experienced NCOs under them and continue learning from them, building a mutual respect. More or less a be seen, not heard, laissez-faire type leadership, but not to the point of being walked over or ignored. Based off of yours (or anyone else's) experience, would you agree with that mindset? 

3 hours ago, M2 said:

When did it only become a one-mile run as well?  Hell, even my 53-yr-old fat ass could (almost) run a mile in 6:40, depending on who/what was chasing me!

Back during the Stone Age, I could knock out five miles in a half hour.  A sub-9-minute mile-and-a-half run was expected when I was in AFROTC...

It's go time, buttercup, so grab your jock...if you need one!

 

Haha, sorry for the confusion, I should've made it clear that the mile time was for a Civil Air Patrol PT test, which requires a mile rather than the standard mile 1/2. Either way, I do need to improve my run time.      

Thank you everyone who has responded!

[NorthCW]

5 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

If you are set on a particular airframe, find a guard or reserve unit that flys that plane and start talking to them.

That's possible for fighters?

I don't know anything about the Guard or Reserves, other than the fact that they don't work full time (except for active reservists, yes?) and have weekend drills once a month IIRC. Do they have a different selection process or requirements than AD does?

[Switch408]

2 hours ago, NorthCW said:

Side question: If I get accepted to USAFA, would it be possible to do both the flying team and Wings of Blue? Or should I try out the soaring program and try to become a instructor? Those are the main 3 programs that have my interest, the falconry program is also something I'm wanting to do, and ideally I'd like to try to get into as many programs as possible if I get there, but I don't know how much time between classes I'd be able to realistically put aside for them.

You'll barely have time for one of those programs, so no, you can't be on both the Flying Team and Wings of Blue. The only person I know of that did something similar to that was one of my competition teammates on the Wings of Blue was also a member of the Boxing team. But he was a freak among men. I still don't know how he had the time and stamina to do both. As for being a soaring IP, I'm not saying don't do it, but my personal advice is stick to something with the word "team" in it. So if you become a Soaring IP, try to get on the Acro or Cross Country "team" within the Soaring side of the house. The reason I say that is most soaring IPs I knew thought it was cool for the first couple months and then didn't really enjoy it much after that and told me they were always a bit envious of the camaraderie that was shared among those of us on the Wings of Blue. And here's a hint- Being on any of those teams really shouldn't be about the activity. Yeah skydiving all the time was cool, but it was my teammates that made it awesome. The stuff we were doing was just icing on the cake.  

[hispeed7721]

That's possible for fighters?

Do they have a different selection process or requirements than AD does?

Yes to both...best advice for learning about the ANG/AFR is look through the threads on here in that section and also find a ANG/AFR recruiter and go talk to them

[HeloDude]

To answer your question, as to,what makes a 'good' officer, I and the others could almost write a book on the subject, and many actually have.  It's not about 'being seen, not heard' and also,not adopting a 'Laissez-afire' style of leadership.  Officership is about taking care of your people so that they can accomplish the mission.  It's about understanding the mission, knowing how to inspire and motivate people, good judgement/decision making skills, on and on.  Good leadership is truly an art form.  This is not something I can explain in a post, and you don't worry about it right now.  Learn to be a good follower first--which means being able to manage your time/tasks, understanding the task at hand, who to go to when you have questions and how to properly ask them, how to be dependable, and how to effectively work with others.  This stuff might sound simple, but for a lot people (especially young adults) it is not.  A commissioning source will give you the very basics of these tools needed to become an effective young officer and a very basic opportunity to practice them.  In the end, you'll learn on the job--find officers you want emulate and do what they do, then see how it works, find other officers you want to further emulate and do what they do, rinse and repeat--find a mentor.  Also, find some good older NCOs/SNCOs which actuary care about mentoring young officers and ask them questions/speak their advice.

But I can't reiterate enough that you must become a good follower first...

[YoungnDumb]

Everything prior to this is pretty much spot on.  The Academy is a pretty good shot at getting a pilot slot, but to be honest there is no discernible program that produces the most pilots who go X route.  Speaking as a current instructor in T-6's I've had guys show up who were on Wings of Blue wanting to go fighters, then decide they want heavies, and I've had guys on the flying team damn near fail out of UPT.  I've also had people show up with 0 time in an aircraft before and finish in the top third, so there really is no magical formula.  Getting your PPL is not a bad idea, but when you get to UPT in 6 years shut up about the fact that you have PPL, we don't care.  As or being a good officer, like Helodude said, we could all write a book about.  The best officers I've seen didn't worry about their career or worry about getting the best assignment they could, they worried about those under them and making sure they were taken care of.  Anyways, PM if you have specific questions about the Academy, I'll do my best to help.

[HU&W]

You've got lots of choices ahead of you.  Here's my 2 cents, and probably only worth half that...

1.  Don't dismiss the idea of ROTC out of hand.  It's not better, or worse, just different than USAFA.  It's also a different kind of fun.  Your focus just needs to becoming an officer and then being competitive for a pilot slot while going through your commissioning source.  Set intermediate goals once you get started, and update them frequently.

2.  Flying experience is good, but not everything.  The AF way is different, and much faster.  Stick and rudder skills are generally transferrable, but you can learn them later too.  That said, the top pilot in my UPT class was a USAFA glider IP.  It was very easy to fly on his wing in 38's because his parameters were always perfect (+-1kt, +-20ft), and he flew an incredibly stable jet.  He became a FAIP and then later went to fighters.

3.  Your question about becoming a good leader/officer will require some study.  There is some excellent advice above.  Pick up the occasional book on the subject and work it into your school routine as you're going through college.  If you do get into USAFA, there will be no shortage of opportunities to learn.

4.  One question you'll likely need to be prepared to answer during your application process.  From your bio, you graduated at 15 from homeschool, right?  What have you been up to for the last couple years?  Have you done anything to demonstrate leadership or personal progression, such as employment or volunteer work?  I'm not looking for answers to those questions, you should just be prepared with the answers.