Combat Time

[zrooster99]

Out damn standing! I figured if anyone was, it would be hogs and vipers, but hadn't heard much.

Edit

And gun boats, of course

[ 14. March 2005, 13:57: Message edited by: zrooster99 ]

[scoobs]

Is that him breathing?

[KennyB]

kill yourself

[Hacker]

Originally posted by zrooster99:

Out damn standing! I figured if anyone was, it would be hogs and vipers, but hadn't heard much.

F-15Es are as well.

[zrooster99]

kill yourself

Who was the KYS directed at?

Oh, and KYS.

[backseatdriver]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Is that him breathing?

Yes.

[ 14. March 2005, 17:32: Message edited by: backseatdriver ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Hogs are too.

[Guest SnakeT38]

All you "young" guys consider yourselves "lucky",

in the 80's and early 90's, "combat" was surviving

an "air raid" during a RF in the Nellis OC when

WIC was called Fighter Weapons School

[Guest forcemac]

Well my combat time is pretty much limited to to OEF, I have about 180hrs from this deployment alone with 30 days to go yet....flying RJ

[Techsan]

Even C-21s pilots get some combat time these days. No shooting anything though...that is unless you consider "dropping bombs" inside the jet expending ordinance.

---Unarmed & Unafraid

[Guest Awol55]

Does fighting your way out of your girlfriends house with a toothbrush when her husband comes home count as "combat time"?

[Guest pcampbell]

Think about some of the guys that you flew with in combat. What stood out in your minds the most: the overall ability to maintain SA (or lose it) or the ability to fly perfect parameters?

The basis of my question is does it really take great hands to be a great pilot in war? Is it a person's ability to actually fly the aircraft, or is it some unquantifiable quality that makes them stand out?

[Guest SpectrePilot]

It's unquantifiable in terms of stick and rudder. It's high situational awareness, it's making good suggestions in a respectful way (some I may have never thought of!), it's helping me hold the team together for weeks or months on end, it's NEVER being a crybaby, it's thinking ahead of me and sometimes for me, it's maintaining a good attitude and helping us all laugh when we need to. As far as flying skills, if you ain't quite got em yet, it's being eager to learn from me without kissing my ass in the process-- I can tell the difference and it's annoying.

Although many SNAPs are exactly what the acronym stands for, and I know many coming into the military today are pretty religious and straight-laced, I also don't want a guy who looks down on the LM for his excessive profanity, judges the FE for running around on his wife, can't handle the Nav's preference for porn, or gives me a hard time about chewing tobacco. Combat-- even aircrew-- is "the band of brothers" mentality. We're all in it together. No goody-two-shoes stuff unless someone's actions/problems are adversely affecting the crew-dynamic. (That's a WHOLE other subject, and I deal with it harshly!)

Let's see... what else? Oh yeah: If I'm taking a nap, know when to wake me up and when not to! (And don't let the Nav tie me to my chair halfway across the Atlantic-- that will suck in the event of a ditch.)

[GW]

Maintaining SA, hands down in my book. Having good hands helps, and can sometimes cover up lapses in SA, but nothing replaces it.

I know plenty of just average "hands" guys (everything is relative of course) who had few problems negotiated the intricacies of a combat mission simply because they knew what was going on around them. The scariest crew I saw had a complete dufus for an AC and it showed.

GW

[Guest viper24]

Kind of piggy backing on Razorback's question...

Those who have been there and done it, are there certian personalities and/or traits it takes to be a fighter pilot? Not everyone is the same, but is there a common personality or trait among pointy nose dudes.

I know a few DB's that want to be a fighter pilot and find my self wondering if they could become one or have the sac to do what the job requires (not that I know exactly what it takes or 1/10th the knowledge of all that is included). But lets face it, "everyone" wants to be a fighter pilot and not many become one.

Thanks for answers in advanced. CHEERS

[Guest TheBurt]

But lets face it, "everyone" wants to be a fighter pilot and not many become one.

.......hmmmm..really?

don't chicks fly fighters now?

[ 25. April 2006, 09:49: Message edited by: TheBurt ]

[Guest viper24]

Sorry...yes they do too. Used "dudes" as a common word. Sorry ladies. Question is open to any person who flys fighters or has good insight on the question.

[Guest thebronze]

Hate to break it to you, but fighter guys (and gals) aren't the only ones that fly combat missions...

[Guest viper24]

True they are not the only ones who do, but my question was directed at pointy nose people. Im not hating on non-fighters, I got lots of love for the heavy flyers and crew. All on the same team

[Guest pcampbell]

I don't want this thread to get off topic, so let's not get into the fighter/heavy argument again. My original question was posed to all with combat time regardless of airframe,.

[B-O-double-Z]

I've got lots of combat hours...most of it insignificant.

For a fighter guy, in my opinion, there are two things that make the "combat time" significant. Either you know there is a threat to you or there's a dire situation for someone on the ground.

I have some combat hours where I was being shot at or at least knew there was a chance of being hit with a missile or AAA.

In retrospect, in a sort of perverse way, it was exhilarating. The anxiousness really gets your adrenaline going. You noticed it most when you were heading back for home and coming down off the feeling.

The target aquisition phase was the most anxious. You are down at a lower altitude, loitering in a given area too long, and heads down looking for whatever it is you are supposed to be trying to find.

The feeling reminded me of swimming in the ocean. My brother and I like to swim out in the ocean, far over our heads. It's fun, and exhilarating, but you always have the feeling that something could swim up from under you and take your foot off...and you'd never see it coming.

[Guest SpectrePilot]

I guess my reply on this one was a bit too crew-oriented.

For fighters, well... hmmm. I won't touch it cause I don't know.

But, I will say that unless you're doing a CAS job (A10, MudHen, sometimes 16's), the air-to-air fighter is growing obselete.

Unless, God help us, we go to war with a real enemy. China? Iran? We're f--ked if we do, but I guess we need to be prepared...

[Guest PilotKD]

Of course it's going to vary with airframe. With tankers, we're pretty much on autopilot from level off (or before) to descent, unless of course the POS keeps kicking off after a few 15 degree bank turns around the anchor and you have to hand fly A/R. I would say the overall ability to maintain SA in certain situations, ie: You've got a few fighters on the wing, maybe one on the boom, a few more coming up for a rdvz, you're directed to drag them to a kill box for a TIC, dodging thunderstorms, doing your "public math" with the fuel panel trying to gnats ass it because the CAOC sent you out frag minus. Anyway, things seems to add up into one big ball of poop at the most inconvenient times and it's easy to lose SA. Then of course there are those other times of pure boredome. :D

[AOF_ATC]

Originally posted by Safe&Clear:

Unless, God help us, we go to war with a real enemy. China? Iran? We're f--ked if we do, but I guess we need to be prepared...

I don't know, I feel very confident in our military forces. Yes, the Chinese outnumber us 100 to 1, but it isn't always a numbers game. Iran on the other hand, its only real weapon against us would be oil and hopefully not a nuke. I know what you're saying about them being a tougher enemy, but I wouldn't say we are f--ked.

Also, hopefully we will have more international support than Iraq if Iran is truly next.

[dmeg130]

I would venture to guess that everyone here would agree with this:

The "best" pilots in a unit (weapons guys, stan/eval, etc) are the guys that know their sh!t and can handle a rapidly changing situation.

And those are the guys you want with you in combat.

You need good hands for some things, but all in all, that equalizes with time in the airframe. There's much less difference between "good" hands and "great" hands post-UPT when you're not just accomplishing a specific maneuver.