Escaping RPAs

[guineapigfury]

I'm doubting he's a Major.  The willfull cluelessness, unwillingness to listen to those actually doing the job, beclowning himself on an online forum, vomiting blue koolaid nonsense on officership and being stupid enough to volunteer for RPAs all point to 2 Lt.

[herkbum]

As an recent O-4 bonus taker...

Well then listen here Major to this mentoring opportunity- soften the rhetoric, learn from the guys that are hacking the mission, establish informed opinions, and then form those opinions into workable solutions that will help/change "experienced" bros lifestyles. If you want to come on here and spout "Leadership 101", then you need to practice it yourself. Learn about the topic or experience the lifestyle personally before you berate the guys that are or have lived it.

[BFM this]

The perennial BODN entertainment clown. Never fails to entertain.

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PYB

And now in the left corner, weighing in at 169# soaking wet, from Knob Noster, MO, the TwisterInYourSister, ILoveScotch!!!

[chuckschwartz]

On 5/23/2016 at 10:02 PM, ILoveScotch said:

If you were less of a douche, maybe more would consider switching to RPAs, possibly helping resolve the manning dilemma preventing you from getting back into a "real airplane".

Or you could keep calling it a black hole from which there is no escape. That'll help.

...

Some of us are trying to help by volunteering. Maybe we can get some more, if we don't talk about RPAs as being a leper colony.

...

But bitching will get you nowhere.

I had to go back quite a ways to figure out what the hell everyone is bitching about. And it seems to me, ILoveScotch is advocating that if people quit talking shit, then the RPA manning issue will be resolved, whether that's through the outside perspective of the RPA community, or through better dudes volunteering. Is this correct, ILoveScotch?

Because I think bitching actually does get you somewhere. Look at something like the blackmold situation at Al Udeid. Enough people did enough bitching to the right people that it got changed. That's a quality of life issue that is now more positive than it was before. If the folks at Al Udeid took your arguments:

On 5/23/2016 at 10:02 PM, ILoveScotch said:

Either vote by leaving when able, or stay and get promoted so you can try and make your small contribution to solve the problem.

...

Whether or not you are unhappy is secondary to the mission. That's just the way it has to be.

...

Get some perspective. Nobody owes you anything. The air force doesnt owe you an airplane to fly. That's the truth. Deal with it.

then there would still be a blackmold problem because no one would've complained. I'll be honest, I don't have much experience in the RPA community (zero, actually), but if there's shitty things about being an RPA pilot, then I think people should definitely bitch about that, because how else will things get better? If you vote by leaving the Air Force at the end of your commitment, then there isn't much incentive to change it because all the crusty old dudes who hated it are gone. And if it's a shitty deal, then why would you want to stay in with the altruistic goal of making it better? Some people legitimately might be motivated like that, but I get the feeling that those people probably don't think it's that bad of a deal to begin with. On top of that, when they become senior leadership, and they're not flying the line, how are they supposed to know what to improve or what to change when no one is bitching about negative things?

I appreciate your positive attitude, and if more people thought that way, then yes, people would be happier. But I think most folks need a reason to be so positive, other than "If we all think happy thoughts, we'll be happy!" or "Hey no one said this was a bad deal, so it's probably a good deal," or "Hey everyone said it's really cool, let's go check it out." (<--and then show up and be sorely disappointed when they discover all the shitty things that people should've be more vocal about).

I'm sure you're not really advocating that if everyone stops saying it's a bad deal, then it'll turn into a good deal. Because that seems to be flawed logic and poor leadership. Am I wrong? Are you actually advocating that, or something else?

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by chuckschwartz

[guineapigfury]

I believe the proper verbiage for his chosen technique is the "Care Bear Stare".

[HU&W]

3 hours ago, BFM this said:

The perennial BODN entertainment clown. Never fails to entertain.

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Achieve critical mass meltdown

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PYB

And now in the left corner, weighing in at 169# soaking wet, from Knob Noster, MO, the TwisterInYourSister, ILoveScotch!!!

It's about time the cycle repeated again.  It's been what, 2-3 years now?  I was actually just wondering if Chang or ILS is PYB's latest user account.

[ILoveScotch]

4 hours ago, chuckschwartz said:

I had to go back quite a ways to figure out what the hell everyone is bitching about. And it seems to me, ILoveScotch is advocating that if people quit talking shit, then the RPA manning issue will be resolved, whether that's through the outside perspective of the RPA community, or through better dudes volunteering. Is this correct, ILoveScotch?

Because I think bitching actually does get you somewhere. Look at something like the blackmold situation at Al Udeid. Enough people did enough bitching to the right people that it got changed. That's a quality of life issue that is now more positive than it was before. If the folks at Al Udeid took your arguments:

then there would still be a blackmold problem because no one would've complained. I'll be honest, I don't have much experience in the RPA community (zero, actually), but if there's shitty things about being an RPA pilot, then I think people should definitely bitch about that, because how else will things get better? If you vote by leaving the Air Force at the end of your commitment, then there isn't much incentive to change it because all the crusty old dudes who hated it are gone. And if it's a shitty deal, then why would you want to stay in with the altruistic goal of making it better? Some people legitimately might be motivated like that, but I get the feeling that those people probably don't think it's that bad of a deal to begin with. On top of that, when they become senior leadership, and they're not flying the line, how are they supposed to know what to improve or what to change when no one is bitching about negative things?

I appreciate your positive attitude, and if more people thought that way, then yes, people would be happier. But I think most folks need a reason to be so positive, other than "If we all think happy thoughts, we'll be happy!" or "Hey no one said this was a bad deal, so it's probably a good deal," or "Hey everyone said it's really cool, let's go check it out." (<--and then show up and be sorely disappointed when they discover all the shitty things that people should've be more vocal about).

I'm sure you're not really advocating that if everyone stops saying it's a bad deal, then it'll turn into a good deal. Because that seems to be flawed logic and poor leadership. Am I wrong? Are you actually advocating that, or something else?

 

No, I agree that it's hard to smile when eating a shit sandwich, if that's truly what it is. I can't deny the terrible locations. From what I've heard, long hours as well. There are clearly valid downsides to RPAs. But is it not true that there's at least a few upsides? There's got to be some mission satisfaction...

It's been my experience that sarcasm is rarely if ever productive. It attracts the ire of leadership because it solves nothing, and yet is so toxic to morale and unit cohesion. It's the self licking ice cream cone where Bros start trying to one up each other to see who can make the more outlandish sarcastic comments. That's the black mold to avoid at all costs, in my opinion.

There's ways to provide constructive criticism. I understand those ways haven't paid dividends yet. The answer isn't sarcasm. Let's figure out how we can make it suck less. Who knows, there COULD be more like me who never considered RPAs because we were always told through the bro network that it was the worst thing on the planet, to be avoided at all costs. I've talked to seasoned RPA guys. No, it's not all gum drops and rainbows. But there are some plusses to the job. You guys are kicking more ass than 99% of the rest of us, and you get to stay home. True, you do lose your bragging rights, and if that's important to you then join the rest of us who don't fly A-10s.

[Jaded]

"Lose your bragging rights"? Are you an O-4 or a high school student?

[SurelySerious]

No, I'm suggesting you quit with the sense of entitlement. You serve at the pleasure of the president. Right now, the president, via the chain of command, wants you in RPAs. So try and make the most of it. You want airplanes. Too bad. It's not about you. Some of us are trying to help by volunteering. Maybe we can get some more, if we don't talk about RPAs as being a leper colony. That's all I'm saying.

This shit should be obvious. We're supposed to be officers. This is leadership 101.

You had the opportunity to STFU, and you stiff armed it. You have no fing clue what you're talking about. Leadership, flying, or UAVs. You sound like the biggest whining child ever, and no one wants to listen to preaching from a toddler.

[MooseAg03]

As an recent O-4 bonus taker, I'd have to make $150k on the outside to pull in what I currently take home in net pay. Yes, that means you'd have to stay in...

Just wait until you see contractors making much more than that doing much less than what you'll be doing.

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[Karl Hungus]

15 hours ago, ILoveScotch said:

As an recent O-4 bonus taker, I'd have to make $150k on the outside to pull in what I currently take home in net pay. Yes, that means you'd have to stay in...

That's not what you said, though.  You said "$150k/yr to fly droids overseas from the safety of our computer screens".  That's patently false for the vast majority of RPA pilots- 11x or 18x.  You were trying to imply that your average RPA pilot is making that kind of coin, not that 150k/yr in the civilian sector is what it would take to match what you "currently take home in net pay".  

Enjoy your RPA tour, and thanks for taking the bonus.  One less spot for me and one more data point to preclude a stop loss.   

[sputnik]

8 hours ago, ILoveScotch said:

 

It's been my experience that sarcasm is rarely if ever productive. It attracts the ire of leadership because it solves nothing, and yet is so toxic to morale and unit cohesion. It's the self licking ice cream cone where Bros start trying to one up each other to see who can make the more outlandish sarcastic comments.

WTF Air Force are you in?  Trying to figure out how you could be an O4 and still be as naively retarded as you present.  But you say you took the bonus which implies you're a pilot.....a naively retarded O4 pilot.  Not buying it.  

It's one thing to be ignorant.  Being arrogant about ignorance...that's special.

[ILoveScotch]

36 minutes ago, sputnik said:

WTF Air Force are you in?  Trying to figure out how you could be an O4 and still be as naively retarded as you present.  But you say you took the bonus which implies you're a pilot.....a naively retarded O4 pilot.  Not buying it.  

It's one thing to be ignorant.  Being arrogant about ignorance...that's special.

You're right, must be a different Air Force. Good luck, fellas, I may very well not go RPAs after all.

[SurelySerious]

You're right, must be a different Air Force. Good luck, fellas, I may very well not go RPAs after all.

Taking your toys from the sand container and going home? Riiiihht. If this dose of reality was too much, you didn't have the heart for it anyway. Putting my money on: you're not real. Troll.

[hispeed7721]

You're right, must be a different Air Force. Good luck, fellas, I may very well not go RPAs after all.

What about the pleasure of the president? What about leadership 101? I thought you were the white knight who was going to save the RPA community?

[mcbush]

ILS, just out of curiosity, what's your background?

[Herk Driver]

No, I agree that it's hard to smile when eating a shit sandwich, if that's truly what it is. I can't deny the terrible locations. From what I've heard, long hours as well. There are clearly valid downsides to RPAs. But is it not true that there's at least a few upsides? There's got to be some mission satisfaction...

It's been my experience that sarcasm is rarely if ever productive. It attracts the ire of leadership because it solves nothing, and yet is so toxic to morale and unit cohesion. It's the self licking ice cream cone where Bros start trying to one up each other to see who can make the more outlandish sarcastic comments. That's the black mold to avoid at all costs, in my opinion.

There's ways to provide constructive criticism. I understand those ways haven't paid dividends yet. The answer isn't sarcasm. Let's figure out how we can make it suck less. Who knows, there COULD be more like me who never considered RPAs because we were always told through the bro network that it was the worst thing on the planet, to be avoided at all costs. I've talked to seasoned RPA guys. No, it's not all gum drops and rainbows. But there are some plusses to the job. You guys are kicking more ass than 99% of the rest of us, and you get to stay home. True, you do lose your bragging rights, and if that's important to you then join the rest of us who don't fly A-10s.

Oh, you're one of those anti-sarcasm guys. Fear, sarcasm and ridicule are very effective techniques. You obviously just don't know how to use them the right way. Now take the opportunity to sit back and listen versus talk about shit that you know nothing about.

[Grouch]

On 5/22/2016 at 10:31 AM, ILoveScotch said:

I volunteered 9 months ago, think I'll maybe see orders this fall. [...] Attitude is everything.

 

On 5/22/2016 at 10:31 AM, ILoveScotch said:

You're right, must be a different Air Force. Good luck, fellas, I may very well not go RPAs after all.

What about all that Servicing the President, Leadership 101? I think you've already thrown yourself upon the sacrificial alter. You make a shitty martyr.

But hey, as you have so stubbornly argued, it can't really be that bad. When you figure out you had no idea what you got yourself into, just remember: attitude is everything.

[Chuck Noland]

Thinking worst case scenario and AFPC backpedals completely on releasing us, anyone have knowledge of folks that got out and got picked up for a manned guard/reserve slot or went to the regionals? Curious as to how long it takes to get recurrent...or jump to the majors.

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[sqwatch]

Thinking worst case scenario and AFPC backpedals completely on releasing us, anyone have knowledge of folks that got out and got picked up for a manned guard/reserve slot or went to the regionals? Curious as to how long it takes to get recurrent...or jump to the majors.

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If you have an ATP and don't commit a murder on the way to a regional interview, you will be hired.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

My guess is this ILoveScotch guy is one of those true blue pickle shiners who min ran his time on the line, stepped on his bros to be an exec asap (without learning dick about his jet or mission) and moved on up through the exec/cag path to his current place in life. I further guess that he's an O4 with fewer hours than most of the copilots in his community.  He's the guy who can't fathom life outside of the AF, and looks SHOCKED when you say you're getting out.  He's the kind of guy who asks dumbass questions like "what are you going to do when you get out?" not out of curiosity, but because he genuinely believes that the only paycheck in the world is available from the AF.  He's the kind of guy who is the exact reason I'm getting out.

[ILoveScotch]

11 hours ago, Napoleon_Tanerite said:

My guess is this ILoveScotch guy is one of those true blue pickle shiners who min ran his time on the line, stepped on his bros to be an exec asap (without learning dick about his jet or mission) and moved on up through the exec/cag path to his current place in life. I further guess that he's an O4 with fewer hours than most of the copilots in his community.  He's the guy who can't fathom life outside of the AF, and looks SHOCKED when you say you're getting out.  He's the kind of guy who asks dumbass questions like "what are you going to do when you get out?" not out of curiosity, but because he genuinely believes that the only paycheck in the world is available from the AF.  He's the kind of guy who is the exact reason I'm getting out.

You guessed wrong. I'm nobody particularly special. A late bloomer, actually. Someone who regrets the bad attitude he picked up from the cool kids crowd early in his career. Live and learn.

I know, it's shocking to think that one of your own isn't a jaded O-4 who rags on and on about how horrible life is (I mean, the man IS holding us all down with these CBTs, amiright?) while doing better financially than 89% of the rest of the country. This was supposed to be a flying club, wasn't it? That's what the brochure said, IT'S NOT FAIR!!! 

Don't forget to collect your awesome bro-points on your way out...

[Fuzz]

[hispeed7721]

Just because you're not "a jaded O-4 who rags blah blah blah" doesn't meant you have to cup the balls while sucking down the koolaid.

There's a big difference between having a positive attitude and the attitude you presented here.

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[ILoveScotch]

29 minutes ago, hispeed7721 said:

 

 ...cup the balls while sucking down the koolaid.

Ah, the 'ole argument by homosexual reference. 60% of the time, it works every time. Classy.