Close Air Support

[Clark Griswold]

We haven't brought it up yet but is there any interest from the CAS community for a tilt rotor based CAS  / Attack focused platform?

Saw this article, https://www.dodbuzz.com/2016/07/12/bell-pitches-naval-variant-of-new-tiltrotor-attack-chopper/ , and have seen a few proposed concepts that don't seem too out there but wondering if it is still fixed wing only for this mission?

[Blue]

Recent Popular Mechanics article about the A-10 Depot line at Hill AFB being "brought back," since the Air Force has decided they were going to hang onto the Hogs a little longer.  Didn't realize they had done anything to shut down the depot line in the first place.  Sneaky move, Air Force.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a23537/air-force-fires-up-depot-line-keep-a-10s-flying-indefinitely/

"They have re-geared up, we've turned on the depot line, we're building it back up in capacity and supply chain," AFMC chief Gen. Ellen Pawlikowski recently told Aviation Week. "Our command, anyway, is approaching this as another airplane that we are sustaining indefinitely."

On a related note, someone pointed out the AMARC Experience site, which I've never seen before.  An unofficial site documenting all things in the Boneyard, to include tracking what aircraft have recently arrived and what aircraft have recently left.  There were a whole lot of A-10s (most of which originally arrived in the early 90s) that were listed under "Departures."  Sixteen of them in Feb 2016 alone.  When you click on the tail number, most of them have a destination of "To HVF West, Tucson AZ. Scrapped."

https://www.amarcexperience.com/ui/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=244&Itemid=316

Have we really scrapped that many Hogs?

[MD]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

There were a whole lot of A-10s (most of which originally arrived in the early 90s) that were listed under "Departures."  Sixteen of them in Feb 2016 alone.  When you click on the tail number, most of them have a destination of "To HVF West, Tucson AZ. Scrapped."

Have we really scrapped that many Hogs?

Yes. The '75-'77 models retired immediately post Desert Storm, the Euro 1 green ones, are mostly gone. There's some still remaining, but not like there used to be. Granted, these particular jets are pre-LASTE with no current updates of any kind and mostly picked apart, but there are some being sent to scrapping with many MICAP parts still on them and very useful. Now, early C-models ('78 and up) are in storage and in the 3000/4000 Type storage area, where they're being picked apart for parts too, since the early A-models have been disappearing. HVF is one of the larger private scrap yards located just off base outside the gate.

Some pics I got of some of these planes leaving to be scrapped. Still some very useful parts on the first one.

Edited October 26, 2016 by MD

[Clark Griswold]

Good article on what a theoretical A-X could / should be:

https://warontherocks.com/2016/05/its-not-about-the-airplane-envisioning-the-a-x2/

It didn't get far in development but the MD 226 concept would be a good place to start from

[Clark Griswold]

Really close air support

https://www.dukeroboticsys.com/

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/israel-is-buying-drones-that-fly-with-machine-guns-1796680707

 

[universal]

Aviation Week Article from today.

______

Air Force Weighs Scrapping A-10 Replacement

When asked whether the service is taking steps to develop a single-role “A-X,” Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein said “not yet.”

So does that mean a single-mission CAS platform will eventually go away? “Maybe,” Goldfein says.

“I don’t disagree that a single-role platform sets an incredibly high bar for the rest of the force,” he said during a wide-ranging interview with Aviation Week July 16. “But remember, [combatant commanders] have got the entire spectrum of conflict that I’ve got to support, from the highest end, the lowest end and everything in between, and I’ve got a certain amount of money that I’ve got to use to build the best Air Force that money can buy.”

https://aviationweek.com/defense/air-force-weighs-scrapping-10-replacement?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170718_AW-05_864&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000002522837&utm_campaign=10950&utm_medium=email&elq2=7a3718c930084bba9f96932439b65a1c

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by universal

[BFM this]

Huh...never would have guessed. 

[Lawman]

Huh...never would have guessed. 

You would think somebody would be smarter than that.

You've gotta have a contract for production and get the money budgeted. Then you cancel the airplane to be able to fund it into different programs not before hand.


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[Blue]

Since they couldn't retire the A-10, they're just going to fly the wings off them, while slow-rolling the wing replacement program.
 

Quote

 

In a victory for supporters of the battle-proven A-10 close air support aircraft, Congress provided the necessary seed money to extend the fleet’s lifespan for at least another decade in its last spending bill. The Air Force had announced last year that 110 A-10s were in danger of being retired because their wings were rapidly approaching the end of their useful service life. The seed money is not as clear-cut a victory as many have supposed, however. The $103 million Congress appropriated for the A-10 re-winging project will only produce four new pairs of wings and it will likely take six years before new wings are installed on any operational A-10s. 

 

https://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/weapons/2018/air-force-leaders-deliberately-slow-rolling-a-10-refurbishment.html

 

 

[Clark Griswold]

Any chance of the Air Force making the defense contractors bid on new CAS jet or are we only moving forward with the F35? 

Requirements still being determined for A-X it seems

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usaf-firming-a-x-requirements-for-a-10-warthog-alt-423999/

How this gets money with all the other big acquisitions currently going on or planned is the 64 billion dollar question

[matmacwc]

They are already flying it at Holloman, pics to follow.  It's called the OA-6.

[Clark Griswold]

2 hours ago, matmacwc said:

They are already flying it at Holloman, pics to follow.  It's called the OA-6.

Copy but I mean a heavy attack vice light attack.  A-X / A-X2 vs OA-X

https://breakingdefense.com/2016/07/a-10-then-a-11-and-a-12-air-force-ponders-cas-future/

From the article:  

"But the other aircraft, the A-X2, would be designed to fly in the face of higher-tech opposition in the form of surface-to-air missiles and other opposition, but not the high-end threats known as Anti-Access/Area Denial systems. (A2/AD would be the purview of the F-35 and other fifth-generation aircraft). The Scorpion could be considered for this. The Marines, who are writing the Close Air Support doctrine for the F-35, have praised its CAS performance so far. That said, the plane won’t have its most advanced weapons for CAS, such as the Small Diameter Bomb II, until the Block 4 software."

Even as a Scorpion proponent, not sure if it is designed or could be survivable in a theatre with an SA-22 type threat but that's another matter.  Still think it (Scorp) was the right one for OA-X but I digress...

Not sure if there is money or interest in the USAF for an A-X / A-X2 but an Attack platform with a reduced signature / balance survivability (Boeing terms but captures my point) and is capable of reasonable self-escort / defense  with long range for deep strike or loiter over a ground engagement with mud to air / air to air threats possible (Syria, Yemen, etc...) is what is needed to fill multiple gaps in our strategy hold small, mobile, fleeting targets at risk operating in grey zone theaters, well defended targets at risk via stand off weapons delivered inside of their defensive WEZs and traditional force on force targets as part of a joint force.  

Basically an A-12 Avenger... 

 

[FourFans]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:58 PM, Steamed Diaper said:

Any chance of the Air Force making the defense contractors bid on new CAS jet or are we only moving forward with the F35? 

I'm sure they'll get to it right after replacing the C-17 fleet.