Time it took to upgrade to AC for heavy drivers in their specific airframe

[innovator]

It seems that AC upgrade takes different amounts of time depending on the airframe you are in.

Can heavy drivers give input on how long (on average) it took for guys in their specific aircraft to upgrade to Aircraft Commander?

 

[mcbush]

In the C-17, it took me a little under 2.5 years from the day I inprocessed the squadron until the paperwork was complete on my upgrade. Could be a little faster if you stayed airland only, or maybe a little slower with extra quals like airdrop, SOLLII, etc.

[Champ Kind]

Average in the C-130E/H was about two years from new copilot to certified aircraft commander.  The C-130J is around 18-20 months.

[hispeed7721]

Current AC-U time is an average of 2.5 years. It totally depends on the individual, as it could be significantly quicker or longer though.

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[innovator]

Mcbush, Champ and hispeed: Thanks for the replies. Did you guys have to meet and be nominated on Training Review Boards to get started on training?

[red.rogue.one]

In the KC 10, from training start to fully qual'd FP took 6 months. started AC upgrade 15 months after that, cert'd 7 months later. YMMV.

[Runr6730]

Average I've seen from 2 assignments in the tanker is 2 - 2.5 years

Edited August 26, 2016 by Runr6730

[Right Seat Driver]

Showed up to my first operational KC-135 unit in May 2009 and was an AC by April 2011.  But I volunteered to go TDY, deploy, and took weekend lines and flew my ass off.  Also sought out SOAR and RT co certs to experience the other mission sets of the 135.

[MooseAg03]

I upgraded with minimum time exactly 18 months after my dollar ride in the C-17, just over 800 hours total time (including UPT time).

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[Champ Kind]

10 hours ago, innovator said:

Mcbush, Champ and hispeed: Thanks for the replies. Did you guys have to meet and be nominated on Training Review Boards to get started on training?

Not really a "nomination process", nor do you "meet" the TRB.  Typically, when it's your turn, it's your turn.  

TRBs happen about once a month in the squadron, chaired by the DO, and any available instructor attends.  There, they review pilots in the hopper for upgrade and examine prerequisites (GRACC, coloring book, hours, etc.) and then they basically ask for any feedback (positive or negative) suggesting they should accelerate or slow-roll said individual.  Nothing incredibly formal behind it.

There is a "certification board" that happens after your aircraft commander upgrade chaired by the squadron commander and usually attended by the DO and representatives from stan/eval, training, and safety.  It's a 10-min meeting where they basically remind you of your responsibility, trust placed in you as an AC, and current squadron philosophies (i.e., "first phone call home wins" and all of that other risk-averse stuff these days).  After that, the squadron Letter of Xs (certification tracker) is updated and you're on your way doing the Lord's work.

[WHAP]

In my C-130 squadron the TRB for AC was more of a "who is next" than it was a board.  But that was in the time when it was 4 on 4 off in OIF and OEF so it may have changed now.  If a pilot who was weak made it through AC school they usually got sent to white jets before they could deploy as an AC or were paired with the strongest copilot we had, on occasion another aircraft commander. My MC-130 squadron the TRB could be a bloodbath.  I have seen several guys get delayed for AC or IP depending on what experience they had and how they good they were, or weren't. 

[Duck]

KC-135 ANG TFI, the TRB had nothing to do with whose turn it was, it was who is ready? Only done once a Qtr. Had a guy leave there with well over 1,500 hours and still a Co-Pilot.

[WheelsOff]

Took me just over 2.5 years in the C-17. Speaking specifically to a superbase like McChord, it also depends on the squadron. Mine was definitely behind the power curve compared to guys in the other squadrons in the average upgrade timeline. It probably didn't help that we had about 10 dudes show up within 2-3 months of each other in my squadron alone instead of being spread equally among the other (at the time) 4. Also depends a lot on the philosophy of the current CC/DO. To echo what champ said about TRBs - I've sat in on plenty, and it really does come down to IPs and the DO assessing the individual's attitude/work ethic/TMS write ups. In my squadron the GRACC books (aka coloring books) were huge...I've seen guys have their PCO dates moved to the right or taken indefinitely until they showed the motivation to upgrade.

...all that to say, YMMV. Just work hard, don't be a chotch, and you'll do fine. 

[Fuzz]

Agree with WheelsOff, I moved quickly through upgrade (more luck and timing) and went to PCO (AC upgrade) at just under 2 years on station (21 mo. CMR) and upgraded to AC at 2 years CMR, that included an additional trip back to Altus for copilot airdrop school. I think we are going to see that timeline compress due to the shortage of pilots in the community now. Going at 2 years was considered fast but now I think we are going to see that become the norm for two reasons: 1) we are undermanned and 2) with 2 squadrons closing and the remaining squadrons not getting any bigger, there's less competition for school slots (CPAD slots used to be very competitive, now we are sending guys with less than 200 hours back to Altus).

[tunes]

C5: 21 months from FP to AC, another 7 months to IP

[Gazmo]

ARC units are a different story. We tend to be more picky and conservative with who we send to ACU or IP school. We've got copilots with 1,500 hours who've been MR in the KC-135 for 4+ years. However, times are changing with a lot of our season Lt Col's deciding to hit the retirement button all at once, so our upgrades are getting quicker. Still not as quick as AD.

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[dream big]

We had a 1LT go to AC school at Yokota....

many guys are going under two years from inprocessing.

No, some are not ready, hope they do okay on the road.

[polcat]

From a C-130J perspective, we looked at hours as well as flying ability before we chose someone for upgrade. We held a few back from upgrade training since we agreed they weren't ready. We also delayed AC certification for some folks, even after passing their checkride, who we thought were ready but flailed during AC upgrade. We did have 3 year copilots, but this was a result of the H to J transition and lack of airframes.

[gucci]

KC-10 was 2 years from the time I finished initial qual to the time I started upgrade. 1,100 hours and two deployments.

[euro2005]

It seems to take forever in the AC-130W community. BTW, I'm not a pilot so I can't exactly pin-point a good time frame. Maybe 3 years or so though and it's usually people who have been around long enough to be shop chiefs & flt/ccs. 

[FlyinGrunt]

Depends on what timeframe you're talking about for the W; for the past 2-3 years the time to upgrade is on par with the legacy timeline.